In Search Of The Perfect Media Player

[sholling]

I've been pretty happy with my WDTV Live as a media player but now that I have a good size collection of HD flacs I'm starting the search for a replacement. What I'm looking for is a single device that does the following:

1. Plays HD flac files at full 24bit 88/96khz quality without down-converting to CD quality.
2. Reads and navigates network shares. That's because few DLNA media servers serve up high bit-rate FLACs, or if the do they down-convert to 16bit 44khz. Bandwidth isn't an issue because I just ran Cat5e and have gigabit switches.
3. Plays ripped DVDs and Blu-Rays in ISO and/or MKV formats with full DTS-Master quality even if it's just doing audio pass-through. This is a must I have because I have a nice collection of concert type material.
4. Play popular online services such as Pandora, Mediafly, and Revision3.
5. The ability to play Netflix in HD with 5.1 sound is a bonus but not a must. I have a PS3 but now that the PS3 network is down I'd like a backup.

• The WDTV Live and from what I read the Boxee Box both play Blu-Ray ISOs and the WDTV Live provides DTS MA support through pass through to a compatible receiver. But from what I've been able to find both down-sample HD Flacs to 16bit 44 or 48khz before playing them. This is said to be a limitation of the chipset.
• Oppo's BDP-93 will play HD flacs up to 24bit 192khz (kudos Oppo!) but won't read network shares and is slow reading a 1TB USB drive. It's a Blu-Ray/DVD player but seems to be a marginal media player - which is okay it's a Blu-Ray player.
• Netgear has their NTV550 which they claim will play 24bit flacs at up to 192khz. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to support any online service other than Netflix. Their weekend "pre-sales" support has never heard of this product so I'll call them next week and see if I can learn something.

I'm looking for ideas and feedback. My budget is roughly $200. Maybe feedback on the NTV550? Or Boxee on an Atom PC (24? 96khz sound)? Any other ideas? I'm not in any rush so if you see something interesting down the line let me know.

 

[PENG]

[*]Oppo's BDP-93 will play HD flacs up to 24bit 192khz (kudos Oppo!) but won't read network shares and is slow reading a 1TB USB drive. It's a Blu-Ray/DVD player but seems to be a marginal media player - which is okay it's a Blu-Ray player..

I actually thought the OPPO sounds better playing my few HD FLAC than SACD and even my record player but I am disappointed when I found out it could not read files stored on my PCs. May be we should ask Oppo if they could make it happen while FW update. I think people are also writing to PS3 and beg them to add FLAC via future FW update. That would be great as my Slim works well with my PC network via its 1 GB Ethernet port.

 

[TLS Guy]

I've been pretty happy with my WDTV Live as a media player but now that I have a good size collection of HD flacs I'm starting the search for a replacement. What I'm looking for is a single device that does the following:

1. Plays HD flac files at full 24bit 88/96khz quality without down-converting to CD quality.
2. Reads and navigates network shares. That's because few DLNA media servers serve up high bit-rate FLACs, or if the do they down-convert to 16bit 44khz. Bandwidth isn't an issue because I just ran Cat5e and have gigabit switches.
3. Plays ripped DVDs and Blu-Rays in ISO and/or MKV formats with full DTS-Master quality even if it's just doing audio pass-through. This is a must I have because I have a nice collection of concert type material.
4. Play popular online services such as Pandora, Mediafly, and Revision3.
5. The ability to play Netflix in HD with 5.1 sound is a bonus but not a must. I have a PS3 but now that the PS3 network is down I'd like a backup.

• The WDTV Live and from what I read the Boxee Box both play Blu-Ray ISOs and the WDTV Live provides DTS MA support through pass through to a compatible receiver. But from what I've been able to find both down-sample HD Flacs to 16bit 44 or 48khz before playing them. This is said to be a limitation of the chipset.
• Oppo's BDP-93 will play HD flacs up to 24bit 192khz (kudos Oppo!) but won't read network shares and is slow reading a 1TB USB drive. It's a Blu-Ray/DVD player but seems to be a marginal media player - which is okay it's a Blu-Ray player.
• Netgear has their NTV550 which they claim will play 24bit flacs at up to 192khz. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to support any online service other than Netflix. Their weekend "pre-sales" support has never heard of this product so I'll call them next week and see if I can learn something.

I'm looking for ideas and feedback. My budget is roughly $200. Maybe feedback on the NTV550? Or Boxee on an Atom PC (24? 96khz sound)? Any other ideas? I'm not in any rush so if you see something interesting down the line let me know.

As far as I know, there are only two media players that will play 24/96 Flac files.

One is MediaMonkey and the other is Song Bird. I use MediaMonkey.

Since getting my fiber connection, I have had a blast downloading and working with HD Flac files.

 

[sholling]

I actually thought the OPPO sounds better playing my few HD FLAC than SACD and even my record player but I am disappointed when I found out it could not read files stored on my PCs. May be we should ask Oppo if they could make it happen while FW update. I think people are also writing to PS3 and beg them to add FLAC via future FW update. That would be great as my Slim works well with my PC network via its 1 GB Ethernet port.

That's a great idea. I think the reason that they left it out is speed. The BDP-93 may load discs pretty quickly but every other function seems a bit slow. They may have thought share access would be even slower. For now I can dismount my USB drive and update it off my PC but it's a PIA. At Least with the WDTV Live I could access the drive over the network and copy over updates remotely.

In the meantime I'm having a blast playing my old DVD-A discs. I only have about a dozen but it's still fun.

As far as I know, there are only two media players that will play 24/96 Flac files.

One is MediaMonkey and the other is Song Bird. I use MediaMonkey.

Thanks. I should have been more clear, I was referring to hardware solutions or a media server application. I use Media Monkey on my desktop PC but that's in another room. The Oppo BDP-93 will play 24bit 192khz files natively but only from an external USB or eSATA drive. That means dismounting the drive and hauling it into my home-office to add files everytime I buy music or reorganize my collection.

The ideal solution would be a separate box like the WDTV-Live or Boxee Box - but with the ability to hit all of my bullet points. Or baring that a media sever application that serves up HD flacs without downgrading them. My current media server (network attached storage server) just ignores HD flacs, but others downgrade the output to 16bit 44.1khz.

From searching the net I see that there is a possibility that a future MediaMonkey 4.0 "Gold" may include a DLNA media server. Perhaps they will consider supporting HD flacs from the server application.

Since getting my fiber connection, I have had a blast downloading and working with HD Flac files.

It's an addiction.

 

[TLS Guy]

That's a great idea. I think the reason that they left it out is speed. The BDP-93 may load discs pretty quickly but every other function seems a bit slow. They may have thought share access would be even slower. For now I can dismount my USB drive and update it off my PC but it's a PIA. At Least with the WDTV Live I could access the drive over the network and copy over updates remotely.

In the meantime I'm having a blast playing my old DVD-A discs. I only have about a dozen but it's still fun.


Thanks. I should have been more clear, I was referring to hardware solutions or a media server application. I use Media Monkey on my desktop PC but that's in another room. The Oppo BDP-93 will play 24bit 192khz files natively but only from an external USB or eSATA drive. That means dismounting the drive and hauling it into my home-office to add files everytime I buy music or reorganize my collection.

The ideal solution would be a separate box like the WDTV-Live or Boxee Box - but with the ability to hit all of my bullet points. Or baring that a media sever application that serves up HD flacs without downgrading them. My current media server (network attached storage server) just ignores HD flacs, but others downgrade the output to 16bit 44.1khz.

From searching the net I see that there is a possibility that a future MediaMonkey 4.0 "Gold" may include a DLNA media server. Perhaps they will consider supporting HD flacs from the server application.


It's an addiction.

The reluctance of the hardware people is DRM. Flac as you know is open source and they developers do not allow DRM. I agree with this. So any Flac file put on hardware that would support Flac can not have DRM.

 

[Entity]

The ability to play Netflix in HD with 5.1 sound is a bonus but not a must. I have a PS3 but now that the PS3 network is down I'd like a backup.

No other streamer currently offers 5.1 other than the PS3. On a side note, even with the PSN down, the Netflix service still works.

 

[PENG]

The reluctance of the hardware people is DRM. Flac as you know is open source and they developers do not allow DRM. I agree with this. So any Flac file put on hardware that would support Flac can not have DRM.

You are so right, the FLAC I downloaded do not have DRM. The FLAC makes the violin sounds great with the 95. If I knew they can sound so good I might not spent money on upgrading my turntable. On the other hand, like anything else this is still early in the game as the choices are very limited, at least on the classical side. They also cost as much or more than discs but at least there is no shipping costs.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I've been pretty happy with my WDTV Live as a media player but now that I have a good size collection of HD flacs I'm starting the search for a replacement. What I'm looking for is a single device that does the following:

1. Plays HD flac files at full 24bit 88/96khz quality without down-converting to CD quality.
2. Reads and navigates network shares. That's because few DLNA media servers serve up high bit-rate FLACs, or if the do they down-convert to 16bit 44khz. Bandwidth isn't an issue because I just ran Cat5e and have gigabit switches.
3. Plays ripped DVDs and Blu-Rays in ISO and/or MKV formats with full DTS-Master quality even if it's just doing audio pass-through. This is a must I have because I have a nice collection of concert type material.
4. Play popular online services such as Pandora, Mediafly, and Revision3.
5. The ability to play Netflix in HD with 5.1 sound is a bonus but not a must. I have a PS3 but now that the PS3 network is down I'd like a backup.

• The WDTV Live and from what I read the Boxee Box both play Blu-Ray ISOs and the WDTV Live provides DTS MA support through pass through to a compatible receiver. But from what I've been able to find both down-sample HD Flacs to 16bit 44 or 48khz before playing them. This is said to be a limitation of the chipset.
• Oppo's BDP-93 will play HD flacs up to 24bit 192khz (kudos Oppo!) but won't read network shares and is slow reading a 1TB USB drive. It's a Blu-Ray/DVD player but seems to be a marginal media player - which is okay it's a Blu-Ray player.
• Netgear has their NTV550 which they claim will play 24bit flacs at up to 192khz. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to support any online service other than Netflix. Their weekend "pre-sales" support has never heard of this product so I'll call them next week and see if I can learn something.

I'm looking for ideas and feedback. My budget is roughly $200. Maybe feedback on the NTV550? Or Boxee on an Atom PC (24? 96khz sound)? Any other ideas? I'm not in any rush so if you see something interesting down the line let me know.

As far as I know - such magical device doesn't exists.. unfortunately.... of If you find it - let me know

Re: NTV550 - According to amazon reviewer - latest firmware is must and it won't get netflix or vudu... otherwise it seems to hold nicely for your needs...

Boxee Box is pretty much in the same box, except having larger dedicated community and stronger hope that some future firmware will get all the points you mentioned...

Boxee software on atom - well I had it up and running for ages, but for what ever reason I couldn't get it to work with htmi to my 805.. plus I never tried flac playback...
As far as I know Nvidia/Ion doesn't support lossless HD format pass-thru...
Maybe we'll have better luck with new AMD fusion platform, New fusion series processor have HD 5450 GPU (or better) onboard so chances are DTS-HD/DD HD are both supported
http://www.itcode.org/asrocks-e350m1-amds-brazos-platform-hits-the-desktop-first
http://kenkt.blogspot.com/2011/02/asrocks-e350m1-amds-brazos-platform.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asrock-e350m1-amd-brazos-zacate-apu,2840.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=AMD+E-350&x=21&y=29

This one looks especially interesting:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856176025&cm_re=AMD_E-350-_-56-176-025-_-Product

 

[sholling]

No other streamer currently offers 5.1 other than the PS3. On a side note, even with the PSN down, the Netflix service still works.

I could not get past sign-in screen after sign-in screen I could see that Netflix wanted to play but the sign-in screen kept popping up and blocking it. I guess the workaround depends on the version of the software on the PS3.

http://www.ps3blog.net/2011/04/25/netflix-workaround-while-psn-is-down/

As far as I know - such magical device doesn't exists.. unfortunately.... of If you find it - let me know

I'm in no rush and will certainly keep you informed. I'd even settle for something like Twonky but my understanding is that both it and Tversity are rumored to down-convert HD flacs. I'm going to send a note to the Monkey Media people urging them to build something into their next upgrade.

I'm frankly a tad disappointed that Oppo didn't either allow access to media shares or at least share an attached external drive so that users could transfer files over the network. They just make it a PIA. The other disappointment is how bloody slow the Oppo's menus are and how unresponsive the remote is. On the other hand the picture quality is outstanding and finally hearing high bit-rate flacs and DVD-A discs through my Song Towers is a joy. I'll be contacting Oppo tomorrow about the way it displays Netflix SD movies. Right now it's a box in the middle of the screen with bars in all 4 directions rather than the normal full height with bars on the sides. I'm sure it's just a setting that I have wrong but I'll ask about the remote and the slow menus while I'm at it.

Boxee Box is pretty much in the same box, except having larger dedicated community and stronger hope that some future firmware will get all the points you mentioned...

Perhaps Boxee Box 2.0 because from what I've read 16bit 41/48khz limitation is a limitation of the processor, the same with the WDTV-Live. Whether or not the Boxee software has the same 16bit 41/48khz limitation as most other media software I don't know. I haven't seen any postings saying one way or the other.

For now I'll use an external hard drive with the Oppo and deal with updates to my collection via sneakernet, and use the WDTV Live for online content.

 

[TLS Guy]

I download the HD files to a large external hard drive.

For classical music I have to remaster, as the pauses are often incorrect or there are artifacts between tracks that should have no pause.

I make a DVD audio disc, but don't burn on WaveLab. Then I play the files on my workstation from the hard drive, via the RME Fireface 800 to the Marantz 8003 via optical connect from the RME unit. It works really well for me.

 

[sholling]

I download the HD files to a large external hard drive.

For classical music I have to remaster, as the pauses are often incorrect or there are artifacts between tracks that should have no pause.

I make a DVD audio disc, but don't burn on WaveLab. Then I play the files on my workstation from the hard drive, via the RME Fireface 800 to the Marantz 8003 via optical connect from the RME unit. It works really well for me.

What I had been doing is downloading to my PC then copy them over the network to hard drives attached to my WDTV Live devices using GoodSync (a good but potentially dangerous program if you aren't careful). That gave me backups in 2 different rooms. I did the same when I bought and ripped a CD. The WDTV Live has a drive sharing feature that made this possible.

I just took advantage of a sale and ordered a new 2TB external drive for the Oppo and will just copy files to that for now.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Perhaps Boxee Box 2.0 because from what I've read 16bit 41/48khz limitation is a limitation of the processor, the same with the WDTV-Live. Whether or not the Boxee software has the same 16bit 41/48khz limitation as most other media software I don't know. I haven't seen any postings saying one way or the other.

I was referring to pass-thru of 24/96 FLAC on HDMI - I'm pretty sure if it doesn't do it now (and according to boxee forums it doesn't) I'm still convinced it could be fixed by new firmware, since boxee processor doesn't need to do anything to it, but pass it along...

Did you checked XMBC ?

 

[sholling]

I was referring to pass-thru of 24/96 FLAC on HDMI - I'm pretty sure if it doesn't do it now (and according to boxee forums it doesn't) I'm still convinced it could be fixed by new firmware, since boxee processor doesn't need to do anything to it, but pass it along...

Did you checked XMBC ?

That's one I hadn't heard of before. It looks like it's 16bit only (as of 2/11) but they appear to be working on 24bit.

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=75562
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=89262

I just posted a wish-list request on the media media board and hopefully 24bit streaming will be included in MM4.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

A Few semi-random links for you sholling:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=65556
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=695652&postcount=90
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=151151
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=59877

You'll see what how these relevant

Short version - ffdshot-tryout does support flac and HD-MA sound pass-thru on supported hardware, like I said not nvidia/ion, but radeon hd 5xxx and higher probably possible.

Still this is all Extremely at deep beta stage, looks like Boxee team is the one whom made BR playback and gave the code back to xbmc team..

So, besides hd-flac - you should be covered on other stuff, albeit still in Beta stages - aka bugs and fiddling to make stuff work right

 

[krzywica]

As far as I know, there are only two media players that will play 24/96 Flac files.

One is MediaMonkey and the other is Song Bird. I use MediaMonkey.

Since getting my fiber connection, I have had a blast downloading and working with HD Flac files.

Foobar2000

 

[sholling]

I've loaded The Media Monkey 4 public beta which has a media server but it's not ready for prime time yet. Of course that's to be expected with any beta and not a criticism of the product. I'm hoping that the final release will be as cool as past products.

 

[BMXTRIX]

The Dune products may do the trick. This is why I actually bought a Dune. It was one of the few (only?) players which supported Blu-ray ISOs with the full menu structure as I have converted my entire BD collection as a 1:1 copy onto hard drives, and it supports about as much storage as you want to throw at it. I have 10TB sitting locally attached, and it can support network connected drives.

Plays HD flac files at full 24bit 88/96khz quality without down-converting to CD quality.

According to the FAQs, it supports FLAC up to 192/24.
http://dune-hd.com/firmware/hdbase3/

Reads and navigates network shares. That's because few DLNA media servers serve up high bit-rate FLACs, or if the do they down-convert to 16bit 44khz. Bandwidth isn't an issue because I just ran Cat5e and have gigabit switches.

Yes, people regularly run Blu-ray over media servers or NAS drives. You've got some good options there.

Plays ripped DVDs and Blu-Rays in ISO and/or MKV formats with full DTS-Master quality even if it's just doing audio pass-through. This is a must I have because I have a nice collection of concert type material.

I believe you can either internally decode it or bitstream from the Dune without issue. My DVDs were no problem at all, Blu-ray hasn't failed on me, but it is definitely slower to load, as Blu-ray players themselves often are.

Play popular online services such as Pandora, Mediafly, and Revision3.

Nope. This is my biggest headache with the Dune. It is stable, but doesn't support a bunch of other stuff. I'm really hopeful that they will open a market of some sort to allow end users to develop apps which are great.

The ability to play Netflix in HD with 5.1 sound is a bonus but not a must. I have a PS3 but now that the PS3 network is down I'd like a backup.

Ditto on this to the above.

One of the best things about the Dune is that it seems very stable. This has been an issue with a lot of other players which I keep reading about. Documentation with the Dune is weak and it takes a bit of technical know-how to set it up the first time. But, once you get the setup done the actual use is easy. Zappiti provides a nice GUI for your movies as well.

I'm hopeful they will come out with a far more powerful unit than the ones they are currently using. It would be nice to get these with GB interfaces and some serious processing power along with the reliability and stability that makes them easy to use.

 

[TLS Guy]

The Dune products may do the trick. This is why I actually bought a Dune. It was one of the few (only?) players which supported Blu-ray ISOs with the full menu structure as I have converted my entire BD collection as a 1:1 copy onto hard drives, and it supports about as much storage as you want to throw at it. I have 10TB sitting locally attached, and it can support network connected drives.


According to the FAQs, it supports FLAC up to 192/24.
http://dune-hd.com/firmware/hdbase3/

Yes, people regularly run Blu-ray over media servers or NAS drives. You've got some good options there.


I believe you can either internally decode it or bitstream from the Dune without issue. My DVDs were no problem at all, Blu-ray hasn't failed on me, but it is definitely slower to load, as Blu-ray players themselves often are.


Nope. This is my biggest headache with the Dune. It is stable, but doesn't support a bunch of other stuff. I'm really hopeful that they will open a market of some sort to allow end users to develop apps which are great.


Ditto on this to the above.

One of the best things about the Dune is that it seems very stable. This has been an issue with a lot of other players which I keep reading about. Documentation with the Dune is weak and it takes a bit of technical know-how to set it up the first time. But, once you get the setup done the actual use is easy. Zappiti provides a nice GUI for your movies as well.

I'm hopeful they will come out with a far more powerful unit than the ones they are currently using. It would be nice to get these with GB interfaces and some serious processing power along with the reliability and stability that makes them easy to use.

Do you think one of these Dune players would handle the HD version of Met Player?

One thing I notice is that it might be lean on RAM, as 1 GB is recommended.

Met player is only available via Internet streaming and unfortunately not as a download.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Do you think one of these Dune players would handle the HD version of Met Player?

One thing I notice is that it might be lean on RAM, as 1 GB is recommended.

Met player is only available via Internet streaming and unfortunately not as a download.

MET Player requires Adobe Flash to work, It will not work on Dune or any other hardware other than software ones like boxee/xbmc which do support flash

 

[sholling]

I've loaded The Media Monkey 4 public beta which has a media server but it's not ready for prime time yet. Of course that's to be expected with any beta and not a criticism of the product. I'm hoping that the final release will be as cool as past products.

I just downloaded the the latest version and the BDP-93 is happily playing the 24bit 96khz version of "Unauthorized" by Dave's True Story across the network.

I have "24bit" in the comment line of the tags of all of my 24bit flacs and one of the cool things that I was able to do set up HD Music and SD Music categories in MM4 using simple rules that categorize all files with comment "includes 24bit" in the tag in the HD listings, all files without "24bit" in the SD list, and all songs show up in the generic "Music" category. This is looking like it might be impressive when it's done.

So since my WDTV Live plays Pandora and MediaFly just fine I'll keep it for now for online content and for playing ISO files that I haven't converted to MKV yet. I'll still keep looking for the perfect hardware media player but in the mean time I can listen to my music the way it was meant to sound.