In search of a descent surround system

[avaserfi]

No shipping. It will be purchased in Iran.
Everyone's telling me something different. No agreements on brand names, no agreement as how much to pay for what. Someone says $200 on speakers, $800 on amp, another says $400 on receiver, $1000 on speakers.
All of a sudden, learning about laptops (which is what I did the whole month of May) sounds a lot easier.

Anyone who is saying spend 200 on speakers and 800 on an amp doesn't know what they are talking about when it comes to quality sound. The majority of sound comes from your speakers as well as their interaction with the room. As long as you have enough power running to them the only important thing a receiver brings to the table is connectivity. Spend the majority of your budget on speakers. Here is a buying guide:
http://www.audioholics.com/buying-guides/how-to-shop/ask-dr-a-the-budget-dance?searchterm=budge

 

[sepandee]

Pretty much as above. If listening to music is the prime use of the system, you can get much higher quality from a two channel system for this budget and still use it for TV and movies.

Look to spend about $1k on a pair of full range floorstanding speakers, Energy RC-30 comes to mind as a good choice to look at if you are doing the auditioning for your parents.

Match something like that with a decent Yamaha or Onkyo for around $400 and cap it with a $100 DVD player. All but the cheapest DVD players will be OK when using digital outputs to the receiver.

Where does shippping to Iran fit into the budget? That's extra, I hope.

Anyone who is saying spend 200 on speakers and 800 on an amp doesn't know what they are talking about when it comes to quality sound. The majority of sound comes from your speakers as well as their interaction with the room. As long as you have enough power running to them the only important thing a receiver brings to the table is connectivity. Spend the majority of your budget on speakers. Here is a buying guide:
http://www.audioholics.com/buying-guides/how-to-shop/ask-dr-a-the-budget-dance?searchterm=budge

That buying guide is for buying a home theater system. Plus, the buying guide starts at $3500. But I get the point: roughly $600-1000 on speakers, $300-500 on an amp/receiver, $100-$200 CD player, the rest cables.

QUESTION: people keep saying amp/receiver. Which one do I need?

 

[Davemcc]

No shipping. It will be purchased in Iran.
Everyone's telling me something different. No agreements on brand names, no agreement as how much to pay for what. Someone says $200 on speakers, $800 on amp, another says $400 on receiver, $1000 on speakers.
All of a sudden, learning about laptops (which is what I did the whole month of May) sounds a lot easier.

Ah, that's the beauty of the hobby. There are so many choices that there is a right choice for every opinion. You will not find consensus. Ultimately, you have to investigate the options that are best for you and your solution will be unique to you. We can point you in a direction and give you a push, but you have to do the walking.

 

[sepandee]

Ultimately, you have to investigate the options that are best for you and your solution will be unique to you. We can point you in a direction and give you a push, but you have to do the walking.

All the searching feels like walking!
Just so that it doesn't dissappear into oblivion, i'm copy-pasting my last question:
QUESTION: people keep saying amp/receiver. Which one do I need?
EDIT: I guess what I should be asking is, where's that link that explains what's a receiver, an amp, a tweeter????, cabinet, etc. I was reading the 10-things to avoid when buying loudspeakers and I didn't understand ANYTHING. So if you're aware of a SHORT article that summarizes everything it would be nice. But SHORT. I already wasted a whole month doing nothing but researching for laptops. Plus this aint my audio system, so don't want to kill myself over it.

 

[avaserfi]

That buying guide is for buying a home theater system. Plus, the buying guide starts at $3500. But I get the point: roughly $600-1000 on speakers, $300-500 on an amp/receiver, $100-$200 CD player, the rest cables.

QUESTION: people keep saying amp/receiver. Which one do I need?

If you read the article it also gives percentage breakdowns which rarely change. You will only need a receiver. Receivers will power the speakers and do processing while amps will supply power letting something else do the processing.

 

[sepandee]

If you read the article it also gives percentage breakdowns which rarely change. You will only need a receiver. Receivers will power the speakers and do processing while amps will supply power letting something else do the processing.

lol so why were they recommended the Vincent SV-129 and the Denon PMA-700? Aren't these amps? Not that I'm saying you're wrong but just want to find out if the guy my parents 'are dealing with knows anything at all.

 

[MDS]

Forgive me if I repeat something that has already been said (haven't read the whole thread) but in the vast majority of cases an external amp is not necessary - especially when we are talking about parents who presumably are not as critical as those of us that are actually into this stuff.

A good receiver with all the processing modes required and a decent amount of power to fill the room is all you ever need. Besides, better speakers (more sensitive) go a long way toward mitigating the need for a more powerful amp.

 

[Davemcc]

All the searching feels like walking!
Just so that it doesn't dissappear into oblivion, i'm copy-pasting my last question:
QUESTION: people keep saying amp/receiver. Which one do I need?
EDIT: I guess what I should be asking is, where's that link that explains what's a receiver, an amp, a tweeter????, cabinet, etc. I was reading the 10-things to avoid when buying loudspeakers and I didn't understand ANYTHING. So if you're aware of a SHORT article that summarizes everything it would be nice. But SHORT. I already wasted a whole month doing nothing but researching for laptops. Plus this aint my audio system, so don't want to kill myself over it.

The terms amp and receiver are often used interchangably. What you need is a receiver.

You should get the best speakers you can get for your budget and still have enough left over to get the other components, which are not as important to overall sound quality. That's the short article that summarizes the most important point.

The RC-30 are very good speakers that will take up most of the budget, but still leave enough room for a good reciever and player.

According to some members here, you should be able to get a Yamaha RX-V661 for $400, which is a competent receiver which an nice array of features and has plenty of power.

DVD players are dime a dozen now. Don't kill yourself over this choice. Most $100 DVD players have all the features and quality you will need.

If you want to learn about audio, everything you need to know is on this site for the looking. If you don't really know anything and you don't really want to spend a lot of time researching, then take these suggestions for what they are, suggestions. Check them out, use them or discard them at your pleasure.

 

[sepandee]

K so now I'm deciding between Energy RC-30 vs. B&W 300 or 600 series (which ones??), and Yamaha RX-V661 vs. Rotel or Denon receiver. What do you guys think?

 

[ChrisJam]

K so now I'm deciding between Energy RC-30 vs. B&W 300 or 600 series (which ones??), and Yamaha RX-V661 vs. Rotel or Denon receiver. What do you guys think?

The Yamaha 661 is a fine receiver, especially for its price. I might get one. Rotel makes good equipment, but it's more than your parents need. Denon makes a large range of audio-visual receivers (AVRs). Many people love them, and they're usually well reviewed. One knock against them is that their set-up menus aren't the easiest to follow. Maybe that's changed in the last year.

You might look at a Yamaha RX-V659, which the 661 replaced. It has everything your parents need, and will cost about $100 less than the 661. You can read a detailed review of it on the main Audioholics site.

I'll thrown another set of speakers your way. Look at this pair; it'd be all your parents need if they can live with fine 2-channel sound:
AV123 Strata Mini
http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=54


People here have recommended many good speakers. But, since an ordinary piano's lowest note has a frequency of ~27.5 Hz--some special concert grand pianos have extra bottom strings and go even lower, but these are rare--I recommend either getting speakers that will go to about 27 Hz, or get a subwoofer to augment speakers that don't.

The Strata Minis I recommended play frequencies from 27 Hz to 35,000 Hz, plus or minus 3 dB, which is acceptable on the low end. The Minis have a built-in, self-powered subwoofer in each tower to handle the lowest notes.

If your parents enjoy a lot of pipe organ music, then you might want a separate subwoofer that'll produce good sound levels to 20 Hz, or even lower (these lower notes can't be heard, but they can be felt). A fair number of pipe organs have a 16 Hz pipe, and at least two in the world have an 8 Hz pipe.

(What's the purpose of those if the average lower end of human hearing is 20 Hz? The extra-low notes produce pressure that can be felt though the air and can be felt through the floor. Plus, if you're in a hall when a 16 Hz note is played, you'll feel it and you'll hear it's next overtone. But notes this low are rare. I have a degree in classical music and I've written pipe organ music, yet I've never come close to writing a 16 Hz note in a score.)

Even if you opt for a surround system, I still recommend getting one that will play notes down to about 27 Hz, even if it means adding a subwoofer to make it a 5.1 system (the ".1" refers to the "low frequency effects channel" (the "LFE")--the sub. All the AVRs you mentioned will handle a 5.1 system well.

For a good explanation of the various sorts of amps, pre-pros, and receivers, see post #9 in this thread:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=272630


Chris

 

[AVRat]

Chris posted a good link for descriptions of the different types of head units and I'd just like to clarify for the OP that the Vincent SV-129 and the Denon PMA-700 are "integrated amps".

Since Infinities seem to be available, the Beta 40 would be a good option if your parents are not interested in a subwoofer. As for B&W, minimally the 604 model.

 

[edjamesx]

I would take 2 or 3 over anything by Bose. They have the smallest crappiest speakers in the world & only succeed because of massive advertising. As you noted, they are also the most expensive. You are paying for the name not because they sound good.

I have BOSE AMK 5.1 home theater speakers.. I think it's not much expensive speakers as , there are good quality speakers costs more ...and they look big. But if you buy full Acoustimastic hometheater from BOSE , it's very expensive . I am not a BOSE fan ...Initially i just bought the speakers in terms of returning the speakers after having trial. But I started liking the Quality of the sound it produces. It just rocks... I never get the same realistic sound from any other speakers..I had gone through other SONY,pioneer,Denon Home theater systems.
Without having the quality they might not have withstand in the market.

 

[Reorx]

I have BOSE AMK 5.1 home theater speakers.. I think it's not much expensive speakers as , there are good quality speakers costs more ...and they look big. But if you buy full Acoustimastic hometheater from BOSE , it's very expensive . I am not a BOSE fan ...Initially i just bought the speakers in terms of returning the speakers after having trial. But I started liking the Quality of the sound it produces. It just rocks... I never get the same realistic sound from any other speakers..I had gone through other SONY,pioneer,Denon Home theater systems.
Without having the quality they might not have withstand in the market.

There is a difference between a Home Theater In a Box system and what is currently being recommended. Everything that is currently being recommended is better then most all the bose systems, and Home Theater In a Box systems. I am sure there are some exceptions out there, though doubtful if theres a Bose exception.

Back to the OP. Does speaker size really matter for your parents? Are they ok with floor standing speakers, or do they want something smaller? Do they listen at casual volumes, or at levels where the house shakes?

 

[autoboy]

Hey guys, don't try to overcomplicate his life. Audio can be a very complicated hobby, and most people don't want to fiddle with it. Hence, why bose sells so well. And I do agree that Bose sounds better then 95% of the Home Theater in a box setups. However, this guy's parents are cool with TV speakers. They don't need super sound quality and won't know the differnce. The OP is the most important thing here because he wants to play rap music, which demands a speaker with some low end (bass).

He also needs a system that is super easy to setup. Setting up a system properly will be hard for someone with little experience. I don't even have my system perfect yet. The sub is by far the hardest thing to setup, so why don't we just skip it and get some decent bookshelfs or floorstanding speaker recomendations. I'm no expert in speakers, but I do work a lot on making things easy for people.

The OP needs a receiver that can power a 5.1 system and is easy to use. An auto setup feature would probably work great. Please recomend some. Also, he should probably get some compact floorstanders if his parents are ok with them, and upgrade to 5.0 at a later date. If he really wants, 5.0 is easy with that budget. (5.0 is 5 speakers and 0 subwoofers. 5.1, which is what most people use, is 5 speakers and 1 subwoofer)

When you get some good recomendations and buy a system, we can help you set it up properly.

 

[sepandee]

that's true, they're not audio geeks. Just two middle aged couples who know nothing of audio who listen to classical music once in a while, and from time to time have big gatherings and would play something more upbeat. I think we can call em the 'average consumer.'

 

[jcPanny]

$1500 HT system

I think that Average Joe consumer wold be more than happy with the following setup:

SVS 5.1 system or AV123 X-series 5.1 system: $800-1k
Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, or Pioneer receiver: $4-500
Oppo Digital DV970HD DVD player: $150
Monoprice cables: $50

 

[sepandee]

K thank you everyone for your thoughts and input. One final question(sssssss):

* My brother said he saw THIS and THISspeakers (same thing, different color) and they looked and sounded pretty decent, according to him (who's an average joe at best). Unfortunately he lost the paper on which he had the model written down. He's going to call tomorrow and ask but in the meantime, perhaps some people can recognize the speakers and make a comment or two about it (plz)?

* How's THIS receiver?