In over my head!

[Gamegeek]

First off; I love this site! Thanks to all who have contributed.

I built a disastrous HT a few years back with Sony's Dream System, an Infocus 4500 projector, and other crap. Needless to say; I focused on cost over quality! I'm still not ready to laugh about it yet!

So; now I'm ready to build a new system! I have a PS3 (for games and Blu-Rays), a XBOX 360 Elite (to keep my hair thin), and a Phillips 65 LCD.

I'm looking at Denon's AVR-3808CI, Klipsch's QUINTET SL, their 10 in Sub Woofer RW-10DBLA, and their ceiling speakers KHC-6 (I need 10).

I'm looking at an easy 5 grand before taxes and I can't help but wonder if I can do better (price and quality) with a Marantz and some cheaper speakers.

Thanks in advance for all your shared wisdom!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Everyone will agree that the SPEAKERS are the MOST IMPORTANT of all.

So FOCUS on the best speakers that you can afford and audition, audition, audition. After you have done this, then we can go to step #2, which is the AVR.

 

[Midcow2]

I agree, but Marantz is so so sweet

Everyone will agree that the SPEAKERS are the MOST IMPORTANT of all.

So FOCUS on the best speakers that you can afford and audition, audition, audition. After you have done this, then we can go to step #2, which is the AVR.

Speakers make the system and I agree, but the Marantz 8002 AVR that I got recently is so sweet.

Hey AcuDefTechGuy , sometime I need to get your true opinion on the Rocket 1000s and RSC200. I have older Def Techs now (BP2006TLs and Pro center 100 I think) and will keep the in ceiling Def Tech surrounds and sub. I have the RSC200 on order( I guess I could cancel ) and plan to get the 1000s next year.

I am still a neophyte as knowing what speakers are good, better and best for the money. ( Yes I fell for the Bose marketing before; but now I have learned)
I like good sound and wathc mainly TV and DVDs. Not much just pure steroe listening except for a couple of talk radio AM stations.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hey AcuDefTechGuy , sometime I need to get your true opinion on the Rocket 1000s and RSC200. I have older Def Techs now (BP2006TLs and Pro center 100 I think) and will keep the in ceiling Def Tech surrounds and sub. I have the RSC200 on order( I guess I could cancel ) and plan to get the 1000s next year.

Honestly, I just don't see how going from the BP2006TL to the AV123 Rocket 1000 is even an "upgrade" at all. If anything, it would be a "lateral/horizontal shift", but not an upgrade and I certainly don't think it's worth the money.

You know how every single company has their own anechoic chamber frequency responses and how these anechoic frequency responses are almost always significantly better than the actual 3rd party measurements?

Take a look at the Rocket 750s for example:
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/speakersystems/305rocket/index4.html

According to AV123, the anechoic response is 38 Hz - 20kHz +/-3dB.

But actual measurement from Ultimate AVMag showed 50 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB. That's a difference of 12 Hz. There was a serious dip (-10dB) in frequency response around 3 kHz, but that might have been room acoustic.

For the Rocket RSC200, the AV123 response is 50Hz-20kHz +/-3dB.

Actual measurement by UAVMag showed 55 Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, with a serious dip (-13dB) around 600-700 Hz, which again could be room acoustic.

Even on "sale", the Rocket 1000 is about $2,200 w/shipping.

The BP2006TL is 33 Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, without any dips whatsoever according to Home Theater mag.

The Rockets 1000 is said to be 29Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, but how do we know it's not really 41Hz-20kHz +/-3dB (12 Hz difference like the Rocket 750)?

No offense to anyone, of course.

Specs aside, I'm sure any AV123 speakers will sound great. But I just don't see how going from the Definitive BP2006TLs to any AV123 speakers is an upgrade.

The Definitive CLR2300 Center speaker, which is the perfect match for the BP2006TL, is measured (HTMag) 30Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, which is amazing by any standard.

Again, I'm sure all AV123 speakers will sound great, but just not quite an upgrade from your current speakers IMO.

Just my opinion.

Now an UPGRADE would be the Definitive BP7001SCs, which I paid $2,400 brand new at my local dealer.

Another UPGRADE would be the Definitive CLR3000, which I paid $750 brand new.

 

[rnatalli]

Everyone will agree that the SPEAKERS are the MOST IMPORTANT of all.

So FOCUS on the best speakers that you can afford and audition, audition, audition. After you have done this, then we can go to step #2, which is the AVR.

Definitely agree with this statement.

With a budget of $5k, I see an Emotiva amp in there somewhere

 

[HiDefGuru]

I think I'm not alone in saying that the 3808 is overkill for the Quintets?

I'd say shop around OUTSIDE of your local Bestbuy for speakers if they don't have a Magnolia, but the Amp is a solid choice.

 

[Davemcc]

I think I'm not alone in saying that the 3808 is overkill for the Quintets?

I agree. I will also say that receiver is overkill for those speakers. In that budget range, you could/should shop for a much higher range of speakers.

 

[Gamegeek]

The Emotiva amp is a great price; but, I really like that Denon! I like the 4 HDMI in's, the 3 zones, and all the extra bells and whistles.

I haven't got a clue about speakers though. So; I've got to get out and test some speakers then. Could you guys throw some names at me? I know of Klipsch being part of Bose and I've heard their quality is second only to Bose; but, that's more likely wrong. So what is the best, medium, and worst then?

As to my budget; the higher it is, the longer I have to wait. I'd like to keep it under 5 grand; but if the quality "IS" worth the extra money, I'm ok with spending a bit more.

 

[HiDefGuru]

I know of Klipsch being part of Bose and I've heard their quality is second only to Bose; but, that's more likely wrong

Run Junior! DADDY'S HOME!!

And by that I mean I would not doubt that the majority congregation, as it were, has BOSE perma-copied into their thread search feature, and will soon be raining down fire and brimstone on this thread for it's named being uttered



God speed to you son. I would stay and join in the Bose bashing, but I'm at work and can only type for so long.

to be continued...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, please run far, far, far away from Bose!

Bose speakers are usually good for elevator and background music, but not for serious audiophile music listening.

Scratch that name OFF your list.

Check out Definitive Technology, Paradigm, Mirage, B&W, Vienna Acoustics, JBL, Infinity, Martin Logan, KEF, PSB, and even Klipsch just to make sure. Well, just go to a HT store and start listening to whatever they have and report back.

 

[Midcow2]

you sold me on Def Tech

Honestly, I just don't see how going from the BP2006TL to the AV123 Rocket 1000 is even an "upgrade" at all. If anything, it would be a "lateral/horizontal shift", but not an upgrade and I certainly don't think it's worth the money.

You know how every single company has their own anechoic chamber frequency responses and how these anechoic frequency responses are almost always significantly better than the actual 3rd party measurements?

Take a look at the Rocket 750s for example:
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/speakersystems/305rocket/index4.html

According to AV123, the anechoic response is 38 Hz - 20kHz +/-3dB.

But actual measurement from Ultimate AVMag showed 50 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB. That's a difference of 12 Hz. There was a serious dip (-10dB) in frequency response around 3 kHz, but that might have been room acoustic.

For the Rocket RSC200, the AV123 response is 50Hz-20kHz +/-3dB.

Actual measurement by UAVMag showed 55 Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, with a serious dip (-13dB) around 600-700 Hz, which again could be room acoustic.

Even on "sale", the Rocket 1000 is about $2,200 w/shipping.

The BP2006TL is 33 Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, without any dips whatsoever according to Home Theater mag.

The Rockets 1000 is said to be 29Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, but how do we know it's not really 41Hz-20kHz +/-3dB (12 Hz difference like the Rocket 750)?

No offense to anyone, of course.

Specs aside, I'm sure any AV123 speakers will sound great. But I just don't see how going from the Definitive BP2006TLs to any AV123 speakers is an upgrade.

The Definitive CLR2300 Center speaker, which is the perfect match for the BP2006TL, is measured (HTMag) 30Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, which is amazing by any standard.

Again, I'm sure all AV123 speakers will sound great, but just not quite an upgrade from your current speakers IMO.

Just my opinion.

Now an UPGRADE would be the Definitive BP7001SCs, which I paid $2,400 brand new at my local dealer.

Another UPGRADE would be the Definitive CLR3000, which I paid $750 brand new.

Def tech--- Thank you very much for taking the time to ennumerate about Def Tech compared to AV123 Rockets. I canceleld my on order Roscket RSC center. I now plan to get BP7004s and CLR2500 or CLR3000; maybe higher-end depending how much funds i can wrangle from the boss .

 

[erick.s]

I love my Def Techs, but I can't speak to their lesser priced lines (I have BP7000sc towers, CLR3000, BPX, and BP2X in my theater). In regards to the AV123 speakers, I've heard a few (and use one of their center channels in a secondary system) - they all sound excellent to me regardless of what the specs are. I highly recommend the Def Techs I have, but I know I'd also be happy with the AV123 speakers as well.

There are so many different speaker brands out there at so many different price points that you really need to get out there and listen to some things and decide what audio characteristics you value the most.

A $5K budget certainly is decent, so you will have a lot of choices available to you which is both a good and bad thing. If it were me, I'd spend no more than $1-$1.5K on a receiver and put the rest towards the speakers. Resist the urge to buy more receiver than you need - extra zones, DSP modes, and 4 HDMI inputs sound great on paper, but will you honestly put all those features to use? If not, then you're paying more for something you'll never see a benefit from. I wouldn't even be too concerned with power output - as long as you buy a receiver with preouts (as nearly all do these days) you can add external amplification easily down the road. Receivers I've used in the past that I've liked (though I run separates in my main system now) are Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Yamaha, Onkyo, and Harmon Kardon.

Speaker brands I'm partial to are Def Tech, Mission, Monitor Audio, Martin Logan, Sonus Faber, AV123, Vienna Acoustics, and Quad. Some of those are in your price range and some are not, but to determine what you like you should listen to as many things as as you can across as many price points (even if they're out of your range) as you can to determine what you value most in sound reproduction then narrow it down from there. Don't rush - take your time and make the best choice. A great set of speakers can be with you for a lifetime if chosen well.

 

[Gamegeek]

First; I hate Bose just because of the one size fits all philosophy "if you can afford it". I'm glad to hear it's all hype! I know very little about "audio" so I am grateful for all the help.

I'll wipe the whole slate clean and start anew! I'll find out who has Def Tech, Mission, Monitor Audio, Martin Logan, Sonus Faber, AV123, Vienna Acoustics, and Quads on display and really give them a listening to.

Is there some sort of audio cd, I could use, that would push all the ranges separately? This is so damn overwhelming!

Thanks again everyone!

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker options

There are planet of speaker options in your price range, so listen to several. The Kilipsch reference series is a reasonable option, just not small satelites like the Quintets or Bose.

If asthetics are a concern, invesigate on-wall or in-wall speakers for the HT.

 

[fredk]

Is there some sort of audio cd, I could use, that would push all the ranges separately?

First and foremost make it something you are familiar with. In general, Cassical and jazz recordings have the greatest dynamic range and so will push your equipment harder.

For movies with good lfe, if you do a sarch here, you will come up with a ton of recommendations.

Fred

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Def tech--- Thank you very much for taking the time to ennumerate about Def Tech compared to AV123 Rockets. I canceleld my on order Roscket RSC center. I now plan to get BP7004s and CLR2500 or CLR3000; maybe higher-end depending how much funds i can wrangle from the boss .

There are many opinions and there will never be the Absolutely Correct Answer as to which speakers or which types of speakers are the "best".

I'm sure those AV123 speakers sound great too, as do so many others.

All I know is that The Audio Critic and Mr. Linkwitz (the master himself) prefer bipoles/dipoles over monopoles & omipoles.

All I know is that the sound coming from my Definitive speakers are Crystal Clear and Ultra Smooth with the Freight-Train-From-Hell Kick-A$$ BASS!!!

As for those Definitive speakers, the 7004 & 7002 would go with the CLR2500, and the 7001 & 7000 would go with the CLR3000.

 

[Gamegeek]

Just got back from hearing some Def Techs, Martin Logans, and Viennas. I now have a small understanding about why there are so many variances in speakers.

I was really impressed with the Vienna's clarity over all the others. I listened to some classical music, The Lord of the Rings, and a few other scores; but, I absolutely loved the sound clarity! I like bass; but, the Def Techs were just too much and the Martin Logans had a limited "sweet spot". (Just my thoughts though.)

 

[Soundman]

Honestly, I just don't see how going from the BP2006TL to the AV123 Rocket 1000 is even an "upgrade" at all. If anything, it would be a "lateral/horizontal shift", but not an upgrade and I certainly don't think it's worth the money.

You know how every single company has their own anechoic chamber frequency responses and how these anechoic frequency responses are almost always significantly better than the actual 3rd party measurements?

Take a look at the Rocket 750s for example:
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/speakersystems/305rocket/index4.html

According to AV123, the anechoic response is 38 Hz - 20kHz +/-3dB.

But actual measurement from Ultimate AVMag showed 50 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB. That's a difference of 12 Hz. There was a serious dip (-10dB) in frequency response around 3 kHz, but that might have been room acoustic.

For the Rocket RSC200, the AV123 response is 50Hz-20kHz +/-3dB.

Actual measurement by UAVMag showed 55 Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, with a serious dip (-13dB) around 600-700 Hz, which again could be room acoustic.

Even on "sale", the Rocket 1000 is about $2,200 w/shipping.

The BP2006TL is 33 Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, without any dips whatsoever according to Home Theater mag.

The Rockets 1000 is said to be 29Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, but how do we know it's not really 41Hz-20kHz +/-3dB (12 Hz difference like the Rocket 750)?

No offense to anyone, of course.

Specs aside, I'm sure any AV123 speakers will sound great. But I just don't see how going from the Definitive BP2006TLs to any AV123 speakers is an upgrade.

The Definitive CLR2300 Center speaker, which is the perfect match for the BP2006TL, is measured (HTMag) 30Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, which is amazing by any standard.

Again, I'm sure all AV123 speakers will sound great, but just not quite an upgrade from your current speakers IMO.

Just my opinion.

Now an UPGRADE would be the Definitive BP7001SCs, which I paid $2,400 brand new at my local dealer.

Another UPGRADE would be the Definitive CLR3000, which I paid $750 brand new.

I'm not sure how the Rocket's would compare to the DefTechs without a side by side comparison, but they do sound quite good. The RSC 200 has to be one of the best center channel's i've heard. The off-axis response is very good. I would never expect to get the same response in room based on published numbers regardless of which company you buy from. Room acoustics will always play a role in your results. Also, keep in mind that the 750's are an older model. This model was replaced by the 760's quite some time ago, and their is a noticeable improvement here. I really wouldn't worry too much about it though. Both of those companies have a great reputation and I don't think you'd be dissapointed with either. If going with Rocket's though, I would reccomend getting the 850's instead and invest the rest of the money into a good sub. The only difference between the 850's and 1000's is the built in sub in the 1000's. So, investing the savings into a sub will outperform it, IMO.

 

[erick.s]

That's a good first outing - you're starting to learn what you like and value. I like many different brands of speakers for lots of different reasons. I've never found a brand that nails everything to my taste (which is why I have multiple systems in my house, each one tailored to it's specific purpose), but the compromises I've made are easy to live with for that precise reason.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just got back from hearing some Def Techs, Martin Logans, and Viennas. I now have a small understanding about why there are so many variances in speakers.

I was really impressed with the Vienna's clarity over all the others. I listened to some classical music, The Lord of the Rings, and a few other scores; but, I absolutely loved the sound clarity! I like bass; but, the Def Techs were just too much and the Martin Logans had a limited "sweet spot". (Just my thoughts though.)

Well good for you. That is a good start.

Sounds like the Vienna Acoustics might be good for you.

About the Def Techs, you can turn down the subwoofer amount if it is too much for you.