In ceiling speaker

[Tparlin]

I have two zones that need speakers. One zone is 2 speakers and the second zone is 3 speakers. I have 16/4 speakers wire (per speaker) ran from AV rack to wall mount volume controls in each zone, then from there 16/4 to each speaker location. Here are my sticking points:
1) should I use all dual channel/stereo speakers to give me more wiring options? These dual channel speakers are marketed as single speaker locations, why? Will they sound like crap in pairs? Do I lose anything by not having the traditional separate left and right channels?
2) How do I wire the in wall volume control to support 3 speakers? (Is this done by wiring the speakers in parallel or series) this limits me to dual channel speakers correct? The volume controls only have left and right input and left and right output with no room at the outputs to run more than one set of wires. I apologise in advance for this being a bit jumbled but this is how it's stuck in my head, welcome to my world lol

 

[lovinthehd]

What speakers particularly? Are you confusing dual voice coil with stereo?

 

[Tparlin]

What speakers particularly? Are you confusing dual voice coil with stereo?

The builder suggested Sonance VP62R for all 5 speakers. He referred to them as DVC but seems like most companies refer to them as stereo (is there a difference)? I also haven't bought the speakers yet because I don't particularly care for the dealer my builder suggested so I'm open to options under $150 per speaker

 

[highfigh]

I have two zones that need speakers. One zone is 2 speakers and the second zone is 3 speakers. I have 16/4 speakers wire (per speaker) ran from AV rack to wall mount volume controls in each zone, then from there 16/4 to each speaker location. Here are my sticking points:
1) should I use all dual channel/stereo speakers to give me more wiring options? These dual channel speakers are marketed as single speaker locations, why? Will they sound like crap in pairs? Do I lose anything by not having the traditional separate left and right channels?
2) How do I wire the in wall volume control to support 3 speakers? (Is this done by wiring the speakers in parallel or series) this limits me to dual channel speakers correct? The volume controls only have left and right input and left and right output with no room at the outputs to run more than one set of wires. I apologise in advance for this being a bit jumbled but this is how it's stuck in my head, welcome to my world lol

Dual voice coil speakers are used when you don't need to cover a large area, or when you do and having a discrete left and right speaker means the sound from on isn't audible from the other location, or if the delays would be a problem- ever listen to old Beatles music from the original recordings through headphones? You would have noticed that the music 'ping pongs' between the left and right channels.

Odd numbers of speakers can be a problem, even with volume controls- wiring in series means the crossover in the first will have an affect. Wiring parallel also causes problems- If you can add speaker wires to the head end from the first volume control's location, or if you can add volume controls at the current VC location, use the kind with jumpers for impedance compensation- that's the only way to do this without adding resistors and creating heat, which could cause something to burn.

 

[highfigh]

The builder suggested Sonance VP62R for all 5 speakers. He referred to them as DVC but seems like most companies refer to them as stereo (is there a difference)? I also haven't bought the speakers yet because I don't particularly care for the dealer my builder suggested so I'm open to options under $150 per speaker

Stereo requires physical separation of the channels and using 'stereo' is easier for most people to understand but 'dual voice coil' is correct.

There's nothing wrong with Sonance speakers- might be the way they're displayed if you don't like the sound.

 

[mazersteven]

I also haven't bought the speakers yet because I don't particularly care for the dealer my builder suggested so I'm open to options under $150 per speaker

As long as you're going to only use these for background music you'll be fine at that budget.

 

[Tparlin]

As long as you're going to only use these for background music you'll be fine at that budget.

Yes, just background music

 

[Tparlin]

Dual voice coil speakers are used when you don't need to cover a large area, or when you do and having a discrete left and right speaker means the sound from on isn't audible from the other location, or if the delays would be a problem- ever listen to old Beatles music from the original recordings through headphones? You would have noticed that the music 'ping pongs' between the left and right channels.

Odd numbers of speakers can be a problem, even with volume controls- wiring in series means the crossover in the first will have an affect. Wiring parallel also causes problems- If you can add speaker wires to the head end from the first volume control's location, or if you can add volume controls at the current VC location, use the kind with jumpers for impedance compensation- that's the only way to do this without adding resistors and creating heat, which could cause something to burn.

So breaking this down
zone 1 has two speakers. Two runs of 16/4 goes from amp to volume control on wall. left channel input + Gets 2 wires - gets two wires, repeat on right channel with the other 16/4. Then from the output of the volume control I repeat the exact same process to my speakers. These speakers are close enough that you will hear both at the same time, should these be set up as left and right speakers? Meaning I should skip the DVC here?

 

[BMXTRIX]

Left channel + input gets ONE wire.
Left channel - input gets ONE wire.
Right channel + input gets ONE wire.
Right channel - input gets ONE wire.

There is no reason to double up on wiring on the inputs to your volume control. It will just make things difficult, especially with volume controls.

Output can be doubled up if you are using single speaker stereo type speakers. But, if just using traditional speakers, then left +/- to the left speaker and right +/- to the right speaker.

I'm not sure how a zone ended up with 3 speakers in it. That goes against most of how I would ever wire a typical room. Especially since speakers are typically sold as pairs. But, if that really makes the most sense, then that's what it is.

Sonance makes perfectly fine speakers. Their build quality tends to be better than most, but their sound quality really isn't anything better than what you can get at half the price. Their 8" directional woofer/tweeter models are a real step up in terms of quality and worth it if better than typical audio is demanded.

 

[lovinthehd]

Okay now I'm confused, never ran into wiring dual voice coils for left/right channels....how does that work with a single driver as far as creating "stereo"? My mind is not wrapping around this concept. Always thought it was just for amp/wiring flexibility for dual voice coil drivers....

 

[highfigh]

So breaking this down
zone 1 has two speakers. Two runs of 16/4 goes from amp to volume control on wall. left channel input + Gets 2 wires - gets two wires, repeat on right channel with the other 16/4. Then from the output of the volume control I repeat the exact same process to my speakers. These speakers are close enough that you will hear both at the same time, should these be set up as left and right speakers? Meaning I should skip the DVC here?

What is the brand and part number of the volume control?

Depends on how well each can be heard from the other location. What's the goal? If they're being used for simple music distribution, it really doesn't matter than they're wired to both channels because none of the music will be missing at either speaker. Don't wire one channel to both voice coils, though- that will cut the impedance in half and if more than one speaker is wired to the receiver output, it might have a problem with the load.

If they're more than 10' apart, I would definitely wire to both voice coils. Hearing the channels separated by too much distance is annoying. I doubt anyone will complain that the channel separation is bad.

Why are you connecting two wires to the input side of the volume control? Do you have two runs of 16-4 going to each speaker? What about the third speaker- where is the source end of the wires going to that? If they start at the volume control location, you might be able to connect another volume control and minimize the impedance problem.

 

[highfigh]

Okay now I'm confused, never ran into wiring dual voice coils for left/right channels....how does that work with a single driver as far as creating "stereo"? My mind is not wrapping around this concept. Always thought it was just for amp/wiring flexibility for dual voice coil drivers....

One speaker with two voice coils also has two tweeters and a full HP/LP crossover. The two channels are sent to the single speaker so that the ceiling only needs a single hole and in a small room, like a bathroom, only one speaker is needed. In a long, narrow room where it's not important to have stereo separation (because it's not intended for more than background music), it prevents the ping pong effect when hard separation exists in the recording. Some ceilings have a lot going on with light fixtures (pendant and sometimes can lights, or both), as well as HVAC vents and other orifices- adding more craters isn't very attractive. OTOH, who stares at the ceiling?

As I wrote before, these have a full crossover, so wiring in series means the first crossover's effect will stack on top of the second crossover- it would be the same if two bookshelf or other speaker systems were wired in series- it's not recommended. Parallel is OK, but only if the amplifier can handle the load or if some kind of impedance maintenance device is used and those waste power. The only time I have wired dual voice coils parallel was in a boat because car and marine amplifiers are designed for 4 Ohm load, not 8 Ohm and in that case, I connected the voice coils on each in parallel for one channel because they were replacing the original speakers that aren't far apart. They satisfy the 4 Ohm requirement and because they're a bit larger than the original speakers, they sound better.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Okay now I'm confused, never ran into wiring dual voice coils for left/right channels....how does that work with a single driver as far as creating "stereo"? My mind is not wrapping around this concept. Always thought it was just for amp/wiring flexibility for dual voice coil drivers....

The idea being you bounce the left and right mids/highs off the walls to help create a stereo effect from a single speaker location. Center the speaker in a room, feed it stereo, it typically is a 8ohm load to the two channels of an amplifier, and it runs left to one of the tweeters and right to the other. So, you get some stereo separation without needing to have two drivers in the ceiling. It makes sense in smaller spaces... somewhat. I would still pick up two separate speakers, or just run a group of speakers in mono.

If using traditional volume controls (like this person is) I would stick, strongly, with speaker pairs in rooms. So 2 or 4 speakers in a space. I still might look for a way to run everything in mono.

Here is the JBL Studio 2 6ICDT

 

[lovinthehd]

Ah, so the separate tweeters help out in this case, that's not something I was thinking of....still seems not worthwhile for stereo (and in this case I'd think mono would be better anyways).

 

[BMXTRIX]

Ah, so the separate tweeters help out in this case, that's not something I was thinking of....still seems not worthwhile for stereo (and in this case I'd think mono would be better anyways).

Well.... yeah.
There is very little about single speaker stereo which makes a ton of sense. It may slightly improve imaging, but really, you are starting off with the reality that this is ALL about putting this speaker into a lousy room. PLUS - The speakers aren't really cheap. Getting a pair of Monoprice speakers into any room will sound drastically better than most of these speakers and cost less. Why waste the money?

I'm not sure we are doing much here to help the original poster, but I think he may be getting the idea that he may just want to roll with some pretty standard speakers for this installation.