In ceiling speaker advice

[kev31.kb]

Hey everyone, first time poster here. I'm fairly new to Home Theater so please excuse my inexperience. I am looking into installing in ceiling speakers. However, I'm trying to work within budget. My current setup is as follows: Epson 2045 Projector projecting on 100 inch Silver Ticket grey screen, AVR- Pioneer Elite 7.2 VSX-LX102, Center Channel- Klipsch R-25c, Left & Right Front- Klipsch R-26f floor speakers, Left & Right Surrounds- Klipsch R-15m, Subwoofer- Klipsch R-12SW. I'm trying to make a decision on in ceiling speakers. Ideally I would go with the matching Klipsch. However, I'm pushing my budget. As of now my wife has been nothing short of AMAZING with my new hobby. I dont want to push my luck . I saw the Micca M-8c on Amazon for like 40 bucks a piece (I know you get what you pay for). All the amazon reviews are pretty positive. Then while shopping around I saw on craigslist someone selling NHT IC2 for 15 bucks a piece. Having a hard time finding info on them. Positive reviews from the little I have seen. As far as pricing 15 bucks is a steal from what I'm seeing them listed for other places. Now those are used but from the pictures they look in good shape, and the seller said they work. So I'm in need of advice as to which I should go for. And like i said the Klipsch aren't a viable option. I cant justify that cost. Thanks everyone!
-Kevin-

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[2channel lover]

Hey everyone, first time poster here. I'm fairly new to Home Theater so please excuse my inexperience. I am looking into installing in ceiling speakers. However, I'm trying to work within budget. My current setup is as follows: Epson 2045 Projector projecting on 100 inch Silver Ticket grey screen, AVR- Pioneer Elite 7.2 VSX-LX102, Center Channel- Klipsch R-25c, Left & Right Front- Klipsch R-26f floor speakers, Left & Right Surrounds- Klipsch R-15m, Subwoofer- Klipsch R-12SW. I'm trying to make a decision on in ceiling speakers. Ideally I would go with the matching Klipsch. However, I'm pushing my budget. As of now my wife has been nothing short of AMAZING with my new hobby. I dont want to push my luck . I saw the Micca M-8c on Amazon for like 40 bucks a piece (I know you get what you pay for). All the amazon reviews are pretty positive. Then while shopping around I saw on craigslist someone selling NHT IC2 for 15 bucks a piece. Having a hard time finding info on them. Positive reviews from the little I have seen. As far as pricing 15 bucks is a steal from what I'm seeing them listed for other places. Now those are used but from the pictures they look in good shape, and the seller said they work. So I'm in need of advice as to which I should go for. And like i said the Klipsch aren't a viable option. I cant justify that cost. Thanks everyone!
-Kevin-

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Welcome Kevin,

One the ceiling speakers, based on your post I trust these are Atmos speakers since you already have surrounds.

If so...do four if at all possible, matching the mains is not important, I would do 8" if your ceiling height is 9'.

I bought some relatively inexpensive Polks and for what you get from Atmos speakers (sound effects), they do a pretty good job.

If these are for whole house, etc and you want better SQ...that's another conversation.

 

[kev31.kb]

Hey 2channel, thanks for the reply! I'm leaning towards an atmos setup. Think the overhead sound would sound cool. As for doing 4 speakers. I would love to. However, is that possible with having a 7.2 reciever. If so how would I do that? They would be going in my basement ceiling. The ceilings aren't very tall, they are 7 ft ceilings.

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[2channel lover]

Hey 2channel, thanks for the reply! I'm leaning towards an atmos setup. Think the overhead sound would sound cool. As for doing 4 speakers. I would love to. However, is that possible with having a 7.2 reciever. If so how would I do that? They would be going in my basement ceiling. The ceilings aren't very tall, they are 7 ft ceilings.

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Oh...okay, you can't do 4 with a 7 channel AVR...scrap the 4 ...I have a 5.2.4 system., started as a 5.2.2 system and expanded, thus the 4 is > than 2 thought.

I'm not the biggest movie guy, but I bought a few new ones just for the atmos effect...like all movies, some movies the effects are better than others, but it is pretty cool. There are lists out there for top Atmos movies, and they're fairly accurate based on the ones I got.

7' ceiling...you can probably get away with 6", but given you are limited to 2 atmos speakers, I would stick with 8".

Good luck with it.

 

[kev31.kb]

I hear ya, and appreciate your suggestion. I will most likely go with 8 inch in ceilings. Do you recommend doing any type of sound proofing for the 2 in ceiling speakers. It may be hard for me to build an enclosure because I have an already finished basement. Any suggestions, or would the sound proofing be unnecessary? Also, I still curious about the Now Hear This(NHT) speakers. I'm wondering if they are a ( if you haven't heard of them, you cant afford them) or if they are an off brand.

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[2channel lover]

I hear ya, and appreciate your suggestion. I will most likely go with 8 inch in ceilings. Do you recommend doing any type of sound proofing for the 2 in ceiling speakers. It may be hard for me to build an enclosure because I have an already finished basement. Any suggestions, or would the sound proofing be unnecessary? Also, I still curious about the Now Hear This(NHT) speakers. I'm wondering if they are a ( if you haven't heard of them, you cant afford them) or if they are an off brand.

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Sound proofing...I didn't do any sound proofing because I have attic space above. In your case, you will get sound bleed in the space above, if you can do some sound proofing, it might pay off.

NHT...the ic4 is a premium IC speaker. I haven't heard them, but the reviews are generally good. I'm not sure of the model and or price you're looking at, but even if you dropped down a tier from the iC4, I don't think you can go wrong with these as Atmos speakers.

I have installed Noble Fidelity IC speakers as whole house speakers...incredible SQ for IC speakers. Initially I gave thought to using those as Atmos speakers, but I don't think I would get enough use out them to justify the expense for Atmos.

 

[kev31.kb]

Sound proofing...I didn't do any sound proofing because I have attic space above. In your case, you will get sound bleed in the space above, if you can do some sound proofing, it might pay off.

NHT...the ic4 is a premium IC speaker. I haven't heard them, but the reviews are generally good. I'm not sure of the model and or price you're looking at, but even if you dropped down a tier from the iC4, I don't think you can go wrong with these as Atmos speakers.

I have installed Noble Fidelity IC speakers as whole house speakers...incredible SQ for IC speakers. Initially I gave thought to using those as Atmos speakers, but I don't think I would get enough use out them to justify the expense for Atmos.

Good to know! I'll try to figure out something to dampen the sound. So being that I have the Klipsch R-26f floor speakers as my fronts, which I believe have 2 6 inch woofers in them each, and the R-25c as my center(I believe 2 5.25 woofers) do you think putting an 8 inch in ceiling speaker in for atmos would take away from them. Would it be wiser to do 2 6.5 in ceilings so I dont drown out my fronts. We quickly touched on this before. I have a 7.2 capable receiver. So because I can only currently go with 2 in ceilings and not 4 would the bigger in ceilings be better? Sorry I'm all over the place, this is just an exciting new hobby that I'm getting into. I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Not having the most tech savvy background I may come off as naive but I'm trying lol. I really do appreciate the time you're taking to help me out. I've cross posted in a couple different forums and for the most part people are more then happy to help. So thanks again. Just was also curious. Being that adding the ceiling speakers and maxing out my channels, when do you think it would be wise to think about an amplifier? I want to protect all that I'm investing in this.

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[2channel lover]

Good to know! I'll try to figure out something to dampen the sound. So being that I have the Klipsch R-26f floor speakers as my fronts, which I believe have 2 6 inch woofers in them each, and the R-25c as my center(I believe 2 5.25 woofers) do you think putting an 8 inch in ceiling speaker in for atmos would take away from them. Would it be wiser to do 2 6.5 in ceilings so I dont drown out my fronts. We quickly touched on this before. I have a 7.2 capable receiver. So because I can only currently go with 2 in ceilings and not 4 would the bigger in ceilings be better? Sorry I'm all over the place, this is just an exciting new hobby that I'm getting into. I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Not having the most tech savvy background I may come off as naive but I'm trying lol. I really do appreciate the time you're taking to help me out. I've cross posted in a couple different forums and for the most part people are more then happy to help. So thanks again. Just was also curious. Being that adding the ceiling speakers and maxing out my channels, when do you think it would be wise to think about an amplifier? I want to protect all that I'm investing in this.

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All over...no worries. This is a great forum to start out on.

8"...the Atmos signal is primarily sound effects as you would imagine...your AVR will control the mix so I wouldn't be concerned about them drowning out the mains at all. The only reason you'd want 4 is to create a more of the effect....so with your lower ceiling height 8" might enhance the effect a tad more.

Amp/Future...this largely depends on you. Your AVR is 80 WPC 2 channels driven so we know it's something less than that with all channels driven. Your speakers are noted to be pretty efficient, you won't need a ton of power to Given you have a nice projector, the space sort of lends itself to being a dedicated HT space. If so, and it's a fairly large room, I can see the playback volume being >80dB a lot. In that case I would look to add a 3 or 5 channel amp...you have multi-zone capability on the AVR...adding a power amp would allow you to expand or simply to allow your AVR to be the control unit and run cooler.

On the flip, if you don't think you will be taxing the AVR that much...I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[kev31.kb]

All over...no worries. This is a great forum to start out on.

8"...the Atmos signal is primarily sound effects as you would imagine...your AVR will control the mix so I wouldn't be concerned about them drowning out the mains at all. The only reason you'd want 4 is to create a more of the effect....so with your lower ceiling height 8" might enhance the effect a tad more.

Amp/Future...this largely depends on you. Your AVR is 80 WPC 2 channels driven so we know it's something less than that with all channels driven. Your speakers are noted to be pretty efficient, you won't need a ton of power to Given you have a nice projector, the space sort of lends itself to being a dedicated HT space. If so, and it's a fairly large room, I can see the playback volume being >80dB a lot. In that case I would look to add a 3 or 5 channel amp...you have multi-zone capability on the AVR...adding a power amp would allow you to expand or simply to allow your AVR to be the control unit and run cooler.

On the flip, if you don't think you will be taxing the AVR that much...I wouldn't worry about it.

Great info...Welp after a further look. Which I did not realize before haha I only have Pre-outs for 2 subwoofers and no other channels. Soooo, I would think that means I dont have to worry about an amplifier for a while haha. I just bought the AVR, its leaps and bounds over what I had and I got it for about 250 bucks off for being open box. In my price point I'll stick with it. Buying something older with pre outs would just sacrifice a newer sound format. So with my current set up and adding the in ceiling speakers do you think I'll be pushing my AVR to hard.

This is the specs on the possible future ceiling speakers if you dont mind taking a look: As per Amazon.com

Specifications- Woofer: 8" Mica-Polypropylene Cone, Butyl Rubber Surround- Tweeter: 1" Pivoting Silk Dome, Ferro fluid Cooled- Crossover: 6dB/Octave- Frequency Response: 40Hz-20kHz- Impedance: 8 Ohms- Sensitivity: 90dB 1W/1M- Power Handling: 100 Watts (Each)- Outer Diameter: 10.75"- Cutout Diameter: 9.375"- Mounting Depth: 3.6".

Any thoughts or suggestions?

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[2channel lover]

Great info...Welp after a further look. Which I did not realize before haha I only have Pre-outs for 2 subwoofers and no other channels. Soooo, I would think that means I dont have to worry about an amplifier for a while haha. I just bought the AVR, its leaps and bounds over what I had and I got it for about 250 bucks off for being open box. In my price point I'll stick with it. Buying something older with pre outs would just sacrifice a newer sound format. So with my current set up and adding the in ceiling speakers do you think I'll be pushing my AVR to hard.

This is the specs on the possible future ceiling speakers if you dont mind taking a look: As per Amazon.com

Specifications- Woofer: 8" Mica-Polypropylene Cone, Butyl Rubber Surround- Tweeter: 1" Pivoting Silk Dome, Ferro fluid Cooled- Crossover: 6dB/Octave- Frequency Response: 40Hz-20kHz- Impedance: 8 Ohms- Sensitivity: 90dB 1W/1M- Power Handling: 100 Watts (Each)- Outer Diameter: 10.75"- Cutout Diameter: 9.375"- Mounting Depth: 3.6".

Any thoughts or suggestions?

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Agreed...interesting PIO would offer Atmos processing, but pre outs for the other channels...lesson learned for the next AVR, but I would do the same thing...well...it's hard to say how you will fare, but my 1st HT build in the basement I remember the wife banging on the family room floor a lot...once everything is purchased and hooked up, invest in a SPL meter and see just how loud you are playing it and go from there.

The real danger to the system is clipping and potential damage to the speakers.

IC speaker specs...plenty good enough.

IDK what you are using for subs, but that's where the sizzle will be, or should be for a great HT system.

Good luck with it it, but you seem to be on a good path.

 

[kev31.kb]

Agreed...interesting PIO would offer Atmos processing, but pre outs for the other channels...lesson learned for the next AVR, but I would do the same thing...well...it's hard to say how you will fare, but my 1st HT build in the basement I remember the wife banging on the family room floor a lot...once everything is purchased and hooked up, invest in a SPL meter and see just how loud you are playing it and go from there.

The real danger to the system is clipping and potential damage to the speakers.

IC speaker specs...plenty good enough.

IDK what you are using for subs, but that's where the sizzle will be, or should be for a great HT system.

Good luck with it it, but you seem to be on a good path.

I appreciate it...I got a klipsch 12 inch subwoofer r-12sw. That thing sounds pretty awesome. I still have some tweaking to do thought. But I think I will take your advice with the spl meter. Try to keep at a good level. Just need to learn what I'm doing as far as figuring out what level I want everything to be at.

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[-Jim-]

Gents,

I have an SPL Meter, and just for grins I downloaded the Decibel X App for my iPhone, and I was amazed how close it is. Unless you are an absolute geek, and need an SPL Meter for 100% accuracy & piece of mind (like me ), go for the free App and save your money for a Good Concert Blu Ray.. Even if it's off a dB or so, it will be off on all of the Speakers in your system equally, so the relative loudness will still be consistent.

At least that's my opinion...

 

[2channel lover]

I appreciate it...I got a klipsch 12 inch subwoofer r-12sw. That thing sounds pretty awesome. I still have some tweaking to do thought. But I think I will take your advice with the spl meter. Try to keep at a good level. Just need to learn what I'm doing as far as figuring out what level I want everything to be at.

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R-12sw...good... I think some speaker OEMs do a pretty good good at subs, but imo the best performance and especially value is coming from direct sell companies this days. In keeping with the working with what you have for now theme, the R12sw it is...Jim makes a good point on the spl phone app.

My wife is all in on my music hobby and she likes movies, but the surround sound is not as enticing for her drama themed movies I guess. Through trial and error...I've learned I get push back on volume around 70dB.

80+ is pretty loud for music...I've had some movie explosion scenes near 100dB...but she wasn't home. Seating proximity to the mains will play a big part in how loud you play it...I'm >10' away....not ideal.

 

[kev31.kb]

R-12sw...good... I think some speaker OEMs do a pretty good good at subs, but imo the best performance and especially value is coming from direct sell companies this days. In keeping with the working with what you have for now theme, the R12sw it is...Jim makes a good point on the spl phone app.

My wife is all in on my music hobby and she likes movies, but the surround sound is not as enticing for her drama themed movies I guess. Through trial and error...I've learned I get push back on volume around 70dB.

80+ is pretty loud for music...I've had some movie explosion scenes near 100dB...but she wasn't home. Seating proximity to the mains will play a big part in how loud you play it...I'm >10' away....not ideal.

I hear ya...we're on the same page...I'm enjoying the sub from Klipsch, no regrets. I'm going to buy the NHT iC2's for my in ceiling's. They are similar style to their newer iC4's. At least style wise...3 directional multi tweeter design. I'm just going to be getting to good of a deal to pass up. I think I will be happy with them. If not I can get them wired up and upgrade later. We love our music as well, and will listen down there. However, mostly for tv/movies atmos kinda deal.

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[2channel lover]

I hear ya...we're on the same page...I'm enjoying the sub from Klipsch, no regrets. I'm going to buy the NHT iC2's for my in ceiling's. They are similar style to their newer iC4's. At least style wise...3 directional multi tweeter design. I'm just going to be getting to good of a deal to pass up. I think I will be happy with them. If not I can get them wired up and upgrade later. We love our music as well, and will listen down there. However, mostly for tv/movies atmos kinda deal.

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I totally understand, trust me...after 20 yrs with my old system. I just finished the audio part of my 4th AV system, but I still remember my 1st HT build....exciting time.

I've only got a few titles with dolby atmos (Gravity, John Wick, and a few more) that I sought out just for the effect mostly...There is a scene in the Wick movie when it's raining on this roof, and the sound was really convincing from the Polks (that's why I'm pretty sure you'll do good with the NHTs).

I do think the format will gain a foothold and maybe more movie options I have access to via Netflix, or Amazon will encourage me to use it more. For now, it's nice to have.

 

[kev31.kb]

I totally understand, trust me...after 20 yrs with my old system. I just finished the audio part of my 4th AV system, but I still remember my 1st HT build....exciting time.

I've only got a few titles with dolby atmos (Gravity, John Wick, and a few more) that I sought out just for the effect mostly...There is a scene in the Wick movie when it's raining on this roof, and the sound was really convincing from the Polks (that's why I'm pretty sure you'll do good with the NHTs).

I do think the format will gain a foothold and maybe more movie options I have access to via Netflix, or Amazon will encourage me to use it more. For now, it's nice to have.

So awesome...im definitely going to pick up a copy of John wick! It's been great talking with you. Thanks for all the helpful tips and advice. So even if something isnt optimized for Dolby atmos/dtsx will sounds still play through the ceiling speakers?

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[2channel lover]

So awesome...im definitely going to pick up a copy of John wick! It's been great talking with you. Thanks for all the helpful tips and advice. So even if something isnt optimized for Dolby atmos/dtsx will sounds still play through the ceiling speakers?

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From my experience...no.

When the Blu ray loads if it's an Atmos coded movie, you'll know it from the intro sound effects.

 

[kev31.kb]

From my experience...no.

When the Blu ray loads if it's an Atmos coded movie, you'll know it from the intro sound effects.

Ok gotcha thanks! Just got back from picking up my NHT's! Now for the install‍ haha

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[William Lemmerhirt]

So awesome...im definitely going to pick up a copy of John wick! It's been great talking with you. Thanks for all the helpful tips and advice. So even if something isnt optimized for Dolby atmos/dtsx will sounds still play through the ceiling speakers?

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If it’s not an atmos soundtrack you can still use dsu, the Dolby surround upsampler, or dts nueralx. It’s not discrete but you will still get use of overheads although atmos is more than just overhead sounds.

 

[kev31.kb]

If it’s not an atmos soundtrack you can still use dsu, the Dolby surround upsampler, or dts nueralx. It’s not discrete but you will still get use of overheads although atmos is more than just overhead sounds.

Great point. Thanks William. I really like the Dts Neural X. I dont know how it slipped my mind. And you're absolutely right. So on a regular basis if listened to it in one of those modes it would act almost as a 7.1 system. And when atmos is available it would be 5.1.2. Kind of...so I have a Pioneer vsx-lx102 reciever. If I prefer dtsx over atmos I would select the dts neural x mode. What mode is technically Dolby Atmos. I've never actually seen Atmos on the display screen. Is it called something different? My receiver is definitely capable of atmos and dtsx. Thanks.

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