in-ceiling idiot

[query]

I followed a listing of 50 in wall and in ceiling speakers. I wanted in ceilings that had back boxes and 8" woofers for around $400 each. My celing has beams below, not rafters above. Seemed to me like all in ceilings with back boxes were designed for between rafters. No success.

Any suggestions?

 

[mazersteven]

I'm not understanding what your asking.

 

[annunaki]

Do you want a closed back in-ceiling speakers? Is that what you are referring to?

 

[InTheIndustry]

I followed a listing of 50 in wall and in ceiling speakers. I wanted in ceilings that had back boxes and 8" woofers for around $400 each. My celing has beams below, not rafters above. Seemed to me like all in ceilings with back boxes were designed for between rafters. No success.

Any suggestions?

Are you meaning that they have to perform in an open space? That's why you need the back box, because there's no drywall which is typically used as a back box with open-back or "infinite baffle" applications?

Try these: http://triadspeakers.com/products/icor8.html

You said $400 each. I'm not sure if you meant $400 per pair or $800 per pair. These retail @ $600 per pair (should be able to catch a little break on them) and are very nice. I typically don't recommend Triad for anything in your price range, but these in-ceilings have a very good sound to them and Triad is a very well respected speaker maker by a lot of people.

If you've never heard of Triad before: Their In-Room Platinum speaker system (around $30K) is listed here http://ultimateavmag.com/buyersguides/speakersystems/ as an "Ultimate Choice" for home theatre systems.

Note: Having tried two systems from the brand I'll go on record as being a Triad hater in general, but I have heard these and think that they are a good value with a fine sound, which is tough for me to say about most of their line. I would recommend these without hesitation.

 

[InTheIndustry]

By the way, I find your name "query" to be very clever.

 

[query]

next steps from queasy query

OK, yes, closed back. My ceiling has vaulted beams below, and no ceiling joists to put the speakers between and to use to create a back box.

$600 per pair is fine. Assume I use these for LCR. What would you use for in wall side speakers to match and an in ceiling or wall sub?

I have seen Polk sub for in ceiling or in floor applications. Other options on that front?

Are you meaning that they have to perform in an open space? That's why you need the back box, because there's no drywall which is typically used as a back box with open-back or "infinite baffle" applications?


You said $400 each. I'm not sure if you meant $400 per pair or $800 per pair. These retail @ $600 per pair (should be able to catch a little break on them) and are very nice. I typically don't recommend Triad for anything in your price range, but these in-ceilings have a very good sound to them and Triad is a very well respected speaker maker by a lot of people.


Note: Having tried two systems from the brand I'll go on record as being a Triad hater in general, but I have heard these and think that they are a good value with a fine sound, which is tough for me to say about most of their line. I would recommend these without hesitation.

 

[mazersteven]

I have seen Polk sub for in ceiling or in floor applications. Other options on that front?

If your going to go with these Triads, you don't want to mix them with anything else. A full Triad system would be most excellent. Polk quality isn't in the same league.

How about these InTheIndustry? I can't access my Triad price guide.

http://triadspeakers.com/products/icb8lcr.html

 

[InTheIndustry]

OK, yes, closed back. My ceiling has vaulted beams below, and no ceiling joists to put the speakers between and to use to create a back box.

$600 per pair is fine. Assume I use these for LCR. What would you use for in wall side speakers to match and an in ceiling or wall sub?

I have seen Polk sub for in ceiling or in floor applications. Other options on that front?

Ahhhh, now we are getting down into the real nuts & bolts of what you need. Before we can help you with L/C/R applications...

How high is the ceiling that these are going in?

Pictures of your room would would be helpful but not required for this thread to progress.

As far as Polk goes.... I think it's an okay (owned/sold it around 8/9 years ago). I have not delt with their in-ceiling/in-wall subwoofers but, admitedly, have never liked their subs, period. But, maybe they've changed since I've heard them last? I think the rest of their pieces are decent, but I normally don't really recommend just "decent". We wouldn't pick our wives or girlfriends based on such a rating, so why do it to our audio gear if it can at all be avoided?

RBH makes a great in-ceiling/in-floor sub http://www.rbhsound.com/si12.shtml
which retails @ $1200 with driver, enclosure, & amplifier.

Triad's is alright (I like RBH's better) and might be able to be hidden better. Again, I don't know because I've not seen your room. Triad's in-ceiling/wall/floor starts @ $1450 and can be seen here: http://triadspeakers.com/products/iwb4ps.html

I don't know your budget, but an in-floor/in-celing sub is a tough thing to design & build from a manufacturing stand point. These types of products done right are unique, but well worth it in the long run. Even if it extends your budget by a few hundred $. I cannot express the importance of integrating the proper subwoofer into your system. It will, quite honestly, make it or break it.

 

[InTheIndustry]

If your going to go with these Triads, you don't want to mix them with anything else. A full Triad system would be most excellent. Polk quality isn't in the same league.

How about these InTheIndustry? I can't access my Triad price guide.

http://triadspeakers.com/products/icb8lcr.html

I will gladly give you pricing on those, Mazer, and please don't take this the wrong way, but I cannot endorse their usage @ all.

Here's why:
My company has done two Triad Theatres (one with their InWall Bronze/4 Omni & one with the InWall Silver/4 Omni) and tried one pair of InWall Gold. In short, they were the most dissapointing products & company I have maybe EVER used. No joke. I hated the Bronze so much that I replaced them for my client @ my own expense. I could not let a system that I designed, installed, & recommended sound like that. After I ripped them out I litterally threw them away. There's NO WAY I would try to sell something like that to anyone ever again. The Silvers weren't much better (I gave them another shot thinking that their entry level was just bad). The in-wall Gold retailed @ the time for $1250 each (if I remember correctly) and were on loan to me from my Triad rep. A pair of Canton 402 GLE absolutely smoked them when we compaired and those retail @ $250 each!

Now if that wasn't bad enough, check this out...... Triad will pre-paint in factory any speaker grille for in-walls and custom stain any in-room product before shipping it to the dealer. "Awesome!", I thought. My client with the in-wall Silvers gave me the wrong Sherwin Williams paint color off the can, which they didn't notice until everything came in. "No problem, it happens", I told them. "I'll order new grilles for you with the right color, no charge". Hey, I'm a nice guy. Besides how much can 5 speaker grilles cost me, right? Ummmm, I found out how much and Triad didn't even offer to buy me a drink first! $60 and change.... per grille.... dealer cost. That's right. I was billed nearly $350 (don't forget shipping to Ohio from Oregon) dealer cost, mind you, for 5 speaker grilles for little, tiny, in-wall speakers. Man of my word, I ate the $350. I just don't consider that a good "value" for me or any of my clients.

I recommended the Omni in-ceilings to "query" because they actually do put put out a good sound for his unique application. We used the smaller 6 1/2" versions in the Silver theatre and I thought they did a real nice job. Not a lot on the low end, but the 8" model should fix that no problem.

Sorry for the rant. To answer your question: The MSRP of the InCeiling Bronze LCR /8 = $750 each

 

[mazersteven]

Wow and I was thinking of getting these.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/ics6mon.html

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Wow, I have always heard that Triad made some very good in-ceiling speakers.

Scratch that, now that I think about it, Steven was the one who told me that.

Wow and I was thinking of getting these.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/ics6mon.html

 

[InTheIndustry]

Wow and I was thinking of getting these.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/ics6mon.html

Go for it. But, don't "F" up the grilles.... ever. They'll cost you a mint!

These http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/ics6mon.html retail @ $2450 ea.

Two months ago the Snell (another custom brand directly competing with Triad) rep lent me their demo pair of their CLS speakers to try. See here: http://www.snellacoustics.com/ProductDetails/3426.asp

Very very impressive product for a $750 bookshelf. I really liked it a lot and will be picking it up for our new showroom (signing the lease today!). Looking into the brand it's obvious that they build some really nice things. Based on what I've seen from the rep & after speaking with their internal tech support, I would have no problem recommending their AMC 6030 http://www.snellacoustics.com/ProductDetails/3400.asp (which I only saw, did not hear). They retail @ $1250 ea. and I think should be considered a good value there if they perform like the CLR I demo'd. The speaker is essentially an in-ceiling version of: http://www.snellacoustics.com/ProductDetails/3434.asp . PM me Mazer if you ever want the "Friends & Family" pricing on these. JUST MAZER..... NO ONE ELSE (he knows the secret password).

James Loudspeaker was another brand we looked @ last year but passed on. Unfortunately, another dealer in my market signed up. That dealer likes to take on a lot of different brands, but only supports three main speaker companies. The James stuff was really really nice, but @ the time I felt the line was a little limited & pricey. Over built, and you pay for it, but built phenominally. We'll see if we get to bid against it much.

 

[mazersteven]

Wow those Snell AMC 6030's look impressive. Thanks for bringing those to my attention. I'm running Speakercraft AIM8 Five's for my main L/C/R now. Although I love them, I've been researching speakers that might give my in-ceiling system just a little more sound quality. With the laws of diminishing returns, and my poor room. I don't know how much better I can get. But that is what this hobby is all about. Spending Cash.

 

[mazersteven]

query,

Remember when you where younger, and had to go on a blind double date for your buddy. And you had to take one for the team.

Purchase those Snell's, and take one for the team so we can here your thoughts, and opinion of them.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

It's is called "running block" and yes he should do it.

Nothing wrong with doing the fat one so your buddy gets the hottie...

query,

Remember when you where younger, and had to go on a blind double date for your buddy. And you had to take one for the team.

Purchase those Snell's, and take one for the team so we can here your thoughts, and opinion of them.

 

[Soundman]

WOW! That's unbelievable, especially coming from a higher-end speaker company! I'll try to stay away from them.

 

[query]

Room layout and back boxes

InTheIndustry had suggested a room layout. Unfortunately, I do not have the ability to post attachments. Not sure how to deal with this.

I have read that back boxes can significantly improve speaker bass performance and reduce sound bleed to adjacent rooms. Somewhere else I read that if a speaker is open to an attic, performance will not suffer. Which is correct? If the former, why do relatively few speaker manufacturers offer back boxes for in ceiling speakers?

 

[mazersteven]

why do relatively few speaker manufacturers offer back boxes for in ceiling speakers?

Manufacturing costs.

Plus, just because a speaker has a enclosure around it does not mean it was designed well.

I'm running my in-ceiling speaker inside Sound Enclosures. Don't know if it helped with sound quality. Not like you can try both ways with in-ceilings.