In-Ceiling HT Question (Paradigm?)

[mazersteven]

I dont know but I have become a SC fan. I would be willing to build a system around them if I had that kind of constraints in my room.

The problem would be the $430 budget for mains using Speakercraft. Very hard to do correctly.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

That was about my "goal" budget when I started all this mess!

The problem would be the $430 budget for mains using Speakercraft. Very hard to do correctly.

 

[Trihonda]

I'm back... After 2 hours in the store (and much internal debate), I bought the in-ceiling speakers. I'm still toiling over the decision and can't decide whether to exchange them for the Mini Monitors (which sounded absolutely amazing to me) at the same price. The friggin store doesn't have a display of the in ceilings... The nearest place that does is over 150 miles away...

The store mngr asserted the Mini's would sound a tad better, but also claimed the CS-60R-30's (with 30 degree angled cones) would sound very close in sound quality (tonaly). He admitted they would be somewhat of a compromise (less open sounding than the Mini), but claimed it wouldn't be THAT big of a compromise. He indicated the in ceiling speakers would benifit from adding Dynamat to the top side of the drywall (to reduce sound resonance/vibrations), and the instruction manual even discusses adding wood braces every 12" across the drywall between the joists if possible.

I know the Mini's would sound better, but who knows if this added SQ is worth giving up the clean (hidden) install with no wires and exposed speakers (which my wife would like).

Another added bonus for the Mini's is portablility (should I ever choose to move my HT to another room).

Man, I'm really stressing on this decision since I know I'll be keeping these speakers for a long time.

 

[mazersteven]

As long as your speakers after installation are "Aimed" at the listening area. To create the illusion of sound coming from the screen you will be fine. If the angle of those speakers is not perfect. That illusion will not be present it will be like watching a Japanese Godzilla flic.

 

[Trihonda]

I am very much contemplating returning/exchanging the front ceiling speakers for the Mini Monitors. The more I think about it, the more I think I'd like the fronts to be on the similar plane as the center (and sound as full). It will be less sightly, but more flexible when it comes to future expansion, etc... I will mull it over this morning some more and head back to the store later today.

Thanks again for all the amazing advice/insight.

 

[mazersteven]

Just for fun. Audition a set of Studio 20's next to a set of Mini Monitors.

www.audiogon.com

 

[Trihonda]

Just for fun. Audition a set of Studio 20's next to a set of Mini Monitors.

www.audiogon.com

Why make myself cry... I know they're 2x as expensive and have received amazing reviews.

So I'm guessing I'll have to get a set of floor stands for the Minis? I think they're ported to the rear, which might preclude them for wall-mounting (am I correct?). Ohterwise, then Titan model (which I didn't really audition, but am guessing sounds better), coud be wall mounted and would save me costs of nice stands. I already have solid wall mounts.

I could tell my wife the stands would cost $$$ or I could apply that to the extra cost of the titans. Or scrap the idea of Titans all together. Can I wall mount the Mini's? Even if they recommend 8" distance from the wall, would going with say a 4-5" distance make that much difference, and even if so, wouldn't it still sound better than in ceiling speakers? Any thoughts?

 

[Midcow2]

go for it!

Why make myself cry... I know they're 2x as expensive and have received amazing reviews.

So I'm guessing I'll have to get a set of floor stands for the Minis? I think they're ported to the rear, which might preclude them for wall-mounting (am I correct?). Ohterwise, then Titan model (which I didn't really audition, but am guessing sounds better), coud be wall mounted and would save me costs of nice stands. I already have solid wall mounts.

I could tell my wife the stands would cost $$$ or I could apply that to the extra cost of the titans. Or scrap the idea of Titans all together. Can I wall mount the Mini's? Even if they recommend 8" distance from the wall, would going with say a 4-5" distance make that much difference, and even if so, wouldn't it still sound better than in ceiling speakers? Any thoughts?

Just show her a picture of the Studio 20s and tell how nice they will look. Mazersteven has given you excellent advice, as he always does. If you get the mini-monitors instead you will always have that nagging question in the back of you mind --- 'Studio 20s should I have got them instead?'

Studio 20 picture to show your wife :

http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/fronts-studio-studio20-model-2-13-1-26.paradigm

 

[Trihonda]

Even with a pic, the wife would never go for it... She didn't want me to spend more than $300 for everything (fronts, center, & surrounds). Actually, that was her compromise amount. She actually didn't want me to spend ANYTHING.... so the Studios are unfortunately not on the table.

She doesn't care about sound. She'd rather we get the in-ceilings so they are invisible. The more I think about it, I don't want to sacrifice sound quality so I'm willing to get the Mini's... That's about as much as I can afford right now. I might be able to squeeze a little more out of my wife for speaker stands, as she just made me get rid of some VERY nice stands at our last garage sale (with me in protest). Now it turns out we need stands, she'll keep quiet on that one so she doesn't have to hear me whine about how I told her so. I was thinking I could maybe look at the Titans if people felt they'd be a good match for the CC190 center I got.

Otherwise, any advice pro or con with wall mounting the Mini?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

If it was me, I would stick with the in-ceilings unless you can make the jump to the Studios.

 

[Midcow2]

Mb-60

Even with a pic, the wife would never go for it... She didn't want me to spend more than $300 for everything (fronts, center, & surrounds). Actually, that was her compromise amount. She actually didn't want me to spend ANYTHING.... so the Studios are unfortunately not on the table.

She doesn't care about sound. She'd rather we get the in-ceilings so they are invisible. The more I think about it, I don't want to sacrifice sound quality so I'm willing to get the Mini's... That's about as much as I can afford right now. I might be able to squeeze a little more out of my wife for speaker stands, as she just made me get rid of some VERY nice stands at our last garage sale (with me in protest). Now it turns out we need stands, she'll keep quiet on that one so she doesn't have to hear me whine about how I told her so. I was thinking I could maybe look at the Titans if people felt they'd be a good match for the CC190 center I got.

Otherwise, any advice pro or con with wall mounting the Mini?

Trihonda,

I hear you, my last upgrade cost me new carpet and new couches

Concerning the mini-monitors, Paradigm makes the MB-60 to wall mount the mini-monitors.


Good Luck!

 

[Trihonda]

If it was me, I would stick with the in-ceilings unless you can make the jump to the Studios.

Really? Now you have me second guessing myself.

I thought I'd get better sound with the Mini's? and flexibility with moving the system later on. The in ceilings would be more work to install, but would be cleaner once done. Though, I'm not opposed to having speakers on stands on the side of the TV... After all, you'll be looking at the TV, not the speakers. I want to HEAR those. And its not like there wont be speakers in the room (center and sub), so what's adding two bookshelf speakers on stands?

I was all set to head over this afternoon and exhange the in-ceiling fronts (which weren't in stock anyways).

 

[ivseenbetter]

Really? Now you have me second guessing myself.

I thought I'd get better sound with the Mini's? and flexibility with moving the system later on. The in ceilings would be more work to install, but would be cleaner once done. Though, I'm not opposed to having speakers on stands on the side of the TV... After all, you'll be looking at the TV, not the speakers. I want to HEAR those. And its not like there wont be speakers in the room (center and sub), so what's adding two bookshelf speakers on stands?

I was all set to head over this afternoon and exhange the in-ceiling fronts (which weren't in stock anyways).

In my opinion, I think you are over analyzing it. If you have heard the mini's and you were happy with them then go with your gut instinct. I don't think you will be unhappy with either.

 

[jcPanny]

on-wall speakers

I think paradigm makes an on-wall version of the mini monitor speakers. Ask your dealer about it. Also their Milenia or the EMP on-wall speakers would be a decent compromise of performance and asthetics. The EMPs come in different lengths to match the size of your display.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

If I was unable to jump up to a really good enclosed speaker, I would pick asthetics and go with a good in-ceiling system. During the times my speakers are in the shop (long story but I have blown my fair share of speakers) I use a set of very inexpensive speakers for my LR and they handle movies just fine. The center and sub seem to carry them for the most part. Different story for music but my in-ceilings in my bedroom play music very well. I would easily build a system around a good set of in-ceilings.

Really? Now you have me second guessing myself.

I thought I'd get better sound with the Mini's? and flexibility with moving the system later on. The in ceilings would be more work to install, but would be cleaner once done. Though, I'm not opposed to having speakers on stands on the side of the TV... After all, you'll be looking at the TV, not the speakers. I want to HEAR those. And its not like there wont be speakers in the room (center and sub), so what's adding two bookshelf speakers on stands?

I was all set to head over this afternoon and exhange the in-ceiling fronts (which weren't in stock anyways).

 

[Trihonda]

I called my shop and they tell me the Mini's are $28 more (even though retail is the same).

I may wind up sticking to the in-ceilings. I suppose I'll try to add wood bracing to the drywall above and add Dynamat as well. I have some spray "dynamat style" product, used in car-audio sound dampening applications. Do people think I'd benifit from spraying that above the ceiling as well? I need to get rid of it anyway, so if it won't hurt, I'll use it up.

 

[mazersteven]

I called my shop and they tell me the Mini's are $28 more (even though retail is the same).

I may wind up sticking to the in-ceilings. I suppose I'll try to add wood bracing to the drywall above and add Dynamat as well. I have some spray "dynamat style" product, used in car-audio sound dampening applications. Do people think I'd benifit from spraying that above the ceiling as well? I need to get rid of it anyway, so if it won't hurt, I'll use it up.

I would add wood bracing, and add some insulation in, and around the area. Don't let the insulation touch the speaker.

 

[Trihonda]

I would add wood bracing, and add some insulation in, and around the area. Don't let the insulation touch the speaker.

Great advice! Do you think some wood bracing (strung between the joists) using OSB or MDF would be ok? (hosing the entire area with sound dampening spray and using Dynamat on the topside of the drywall surounding the speaker). Or do I need to try to enclose off the area with the MDF?

I'd rather not try to enclose off the area (as this will be difficult considering the 10" drywall hole I'll be working with. Doing custom car audio installs, I've done my fair share of enclosures, but never working through a small hole like that.

I think it's simple enough to cut some sections of MDF to lay (flat on the drywall) from joist to joist on either side of the speaker to create stiffer drywalling, but an enclosure might be a challenge. Also, the sound dampening spray (not cheap stuff at $100/can) might work good too sprayed on the surrounding joists and subfloor? It is not otherwise insulated that I can tell, so no worries about anything touching the speakers.

If you have any suggestions for how to make or attach the braces or make the in-ceilings sound better, I'd love to hear them.

As always, thanks for the amazing help.

 

[mazersteven]

Great advice! Do you think some wood bracing (strung between the joists) using OSB or MDF would be ok? (hosing the entire area with sound dampening spray and using Dynamat on the topside of the drywall surounding the speaker). Or do I need to try to enclose off the area with the MDF?

I'd rather not try to enclose off the area (as this will be difficult considering the 10" drywall hole I'll be working with. Doing custom car audio installs, I've done my fair share of enclosures, but never working through a small hole like that.

I think it's simple enough to cut some sections of MDF to lay (flat on the drywall) from joist to joist on either side of the speaker to create stiffer drywalling, but an enclosure might be a challenge. Also, the sound dampening spray (not cheap stuff at $100/can) might work good too sprayed on the surrounding joists and subfloor? It is not otherwise insulated that I can tell, so no worries about anything touching the speakers.

If you have any suggestions for how to make or attach the braces or make the in-ceilings sound better, I'd love to hear them.

As always, thanks for the amazing help.

Lets make this simple, and not to complicated. Just add a couple of wood braces just to cut down on any vibration within the truss, or joist area. Then go get some insulation (Owens Corning) and insulate the area.

 

[Trihonda]

KISS is always better regarding audio IMO. I can do some wood braces between the joists. I'll check out some insulation. However, I will probably use some of the Dynamat on top of the drywall and sound deadening spray (which are both expressly designed to cut down on vibrations and absord/deaden sound). Since these extras have been sitting in storage unused (and were close to being tossed for lack of a use), there's no reason not to use them now. I'm excited!