Improving the Mid bass slam (Opinion overload)

S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
Was reading up on achieving more mid bass slam and trying stuff. And came across so many conflicting opinions.

I understand that without measurements we will be walking blind. I do have the mike and REW. Next question would be, what next? What frequency range should I target to get that chest punch?

This is where the more I read, the more opinions I run across.
1. It's the subwoofer low frequencies
2. 40 to 60 Hz
3. 60 to 120Hz
4. 80 and below
5. ...
6. ...

Strange that there is such divergence in opinions.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Ime 25-80 is about the range for chest slam. It’s gonna depend on your subs capabilities as it’s also largely a product of SPL at XYZ frequencies.
If you can, download a tone generator app, or run tones on YouTube and see which gives you the most slam. In the old days, the bass knob was frequently centered at 50hz. So turning that up would give some impact to kick drums and bass guitars. Also a lot of bassy music is hot in the 30-80ish range.
That’s been my experience.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Audioholics article on it https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/bass-the-physical-sensation-of-sound

I'd say get your setup going and you tell us where you found it most to your liking like William suggested? What kind of content are you looking for it in? Do we all experience it the same way?

For me it's more about spl. I don't find it particularly in the lowest frequencies (and I didn't watch the video so not sure what they said about that). Then again low bass isn't mid-bass so that makes sense. :) Getting agreement on just what is mid-bass can be hard :) Without doing some deliberate testing I'm thinking more the 50-120 range?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Audioholics article on it https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/bass-the-physical-sensation-of-sound

I'd say get your setup going and you tell us where you found it most to your liking like William suggested? What kind of content are you looking for it in? Do we all experience it the same way?

For me it's more about spl. I don't find it particularly in the lowest frequencies (and I didn't watch the video so not sure what they said about that). Then again low bass isn't mid-bass so that makes sense. :) Getting agreement on just what is mid-bass can be hard :) Without doing some deliberate testing I'm thinking more the 50-120 range?
I feel like I should mention that there was an admitted amount of beer involved in that test and I didn’t agree with a lot of it. I’ll reread it...
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I feel like I should mention that there was an admitted amount of beer involved in that test and I didn’t agree with a lot of it. I’ll reread it...
The testing that we ran was informal and not scientific, it was just for fun. However, the survey of research in that article can be taken to the bank on this matter, since it is all from peer-reviewed sources.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
The testing that we ran was informal and not scientific, it was just for fun. However, the survey of research in that article can be taken to the bank on this matter, since it is all from peer-reviewed sources.
Roger that. I’ll reread as mentioned.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic General
After recently rerunning Odessey I got great chest thump. Wasn't until I realized my mains got set to large that I fixed the issue. That said if you have big mains you can easily reinforce the mid bass with a subwoofer to achieve significant chest thump, the only issue is the chest thump will always be there when playing those frequencies, even during some dialogue.
 
B

Baaj

Enthusiast
What’s the point of ulf subwoofers like the PB-16 ultra then? I always thought that was the chest thump bass region 20 hz and below as they excel in that range. Otherwise I could of bought pb-3000.


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F

flyers10

Audiophyte
I've read there is some chest slam into the low 100s even. One thing seems to be that need to play louder to have better chest slam feel.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
What’s the point of ulf subwoofers like the PB-16 ultra then? I always thought that was the chest thump bass region 20 hz and below as they excel in that range. Otherwise I could of bought pb-3000.


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Because chest slam, and shaking the couch are not he same thing. Lol
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I've read there is some chest slam into the low 100s even. One thing seems to be that need to play louder to have better chest slam feel.
Yes. Spl is a major contributor. I’ve run sine waves around 100-120hz at stupid volumes. I did not get chest slam. The thing is, content(music, movies) isn’t sine waves. It’s fundamentals and harmonics, so it’s safe to say, it’s complicated. In the end though, it hass to be loud!
 
B

Baaj

Enthusiast
Because chest slam, and shaking the couch are not he same thing. Lol
I see, the pb-16 does indeed shake my couch with the right peq settings on the app. I have it set it max gain on the subwoofer and -9 on my pioneer reciever. A lot of people say to run the sub at -10 or -15 but I have 5 year warranty should I not worry and run the amp on max power -0 in my case on the app?


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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I see, the pb-16 does indeed shake my couch with the right peq settings on the app. I have it set it max gain on the subwoofer and -9 on my pioneer reciever. A lot of people say to run the sub at -10 or -15 but I have 5 year warranty should I not worry and run the amp on max power -0 in my case on the app?


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I think you could, but I would ask SVS directly.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I see, the pb-16 does indeed shake my couch with the right peq settings on the app. I have it set it max gain on the subwoofer and -9 on my pioneer reciever. A lot of people say to run the sub at -10 or -15 but I have 5 year warranty should I not worry and run the amp on max power -0 in my case on the app?


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I wouldn't worry about it particularly, but did you have mcacc set the -9 sub trim level or did mcacc set it lower and you raised it? That you need max gain on the sub amp may make sense depending on the pre-out level of your avr.
 
B

Baaj

Enthusiast
I wouldn't worry about it particularly, but did you have mcacc set the -9 sub trim level or did mcacc set it lower and you raised it? That you need max gain on the sub amp may make sense depending on the pre-out level of your avr.
Mcacc use to set it around -3ish I raised it to -9. It’s a very old reciever 2003 I think so I think that needs a major upgrade because I can’t even use rew since it has no hdmi just optical in for audio.


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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Mcacc use to set it around -3ish I raised it to -9. It’s a very old reciever 2003 I think so I think that needs a major upgrade because I can’t even use rew since it has no hdmi just optical in for audio.


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If you're changing level from -3 to -9 you're lowering the level of the sub....

But if you're going from 3 to 9 you'd be raising it. Is the trim level a negative number or positive?
 
B

Baaj

Enthusiast
If you're changing level from -3 to -9 you're lowering the level of the sub....
Yah I did it that way as there’s a guy on YouTube called subwoofer 101 and he recommends to lower it all the way but plus 1.
I find it weird because I only get the couch shake once I activate peq (parametric eq) , if I don’t it literally sounds like no bass.
50hz boosted 6db Q factor 0.2

20 hz boosted 6db Q factor 1.8
30 hz boosted 6db Q factor 1.8
I chose these numbers on random and it sounds really good and shakes the entire sofa. I don’t know what they do however (q factor). I don’t have a way to measure the response of my sub woofer either as rew only works with newer avr with hdmi.


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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yah I did it that way as there’s a guy on YouTube called subwoofer 101 and he recommends to lower it all the way but plus 1.
I find it weird because I only get the couch shake once I activate peq (parametric eq) , if I don’t it literally sounds like no bass.
50hz boosted 6db Q factor 0.2

20 hz boosted 6db Q factor 1.8
30 hz boosted 6db Q factor 1.8
I chose these numbers on random and it sounds really good and shakes the entire sofa. I don’t know what they do however (q factor). I don’t have a way to measure the response of my sub woofer either as rew only works with newer avr with hdmi.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sounds a bit goofy to me, or are you leaving something out? I don't trust most of what I see on youtube for audio stuff myself (altho I'd believe something from Audioholics). So he says run MCACC then drop the level from where it sets it? Is he instead saying try to get MCACC to set sub level anywhere up to the lowest level but plus 1? You don't want MCACC to set maximum negative value as that would indicate gain on your sub is set too high. I'd return it to where MCACC set it....
 
B

Baaj

Enthusiast
Sounds a bit goofy to me, or are you leaving something out? I don't trust most of what I see on youtube for audio stuff myself (altho I'd believe something from Audioholics). So he says run MCACC then drop the level from where it sets it? Is he instead saying try to get MCACC to set sub level anywhere up to the lowest level but plus 1? You don't want MCACC to set maximum negative value as that would indicate gain on your sub is set too high. I'd return it to where MCACC set it....
Ok I will try that, regarding the peq parametric eq, should I leave that all off or just stick with what sounds the best to me? My subwoofer also has extended mode and standard mode if you know which I should be running. I believe extended has more spl in the lower frequency’s while standard gets more in the mid frequency’s.


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