Imaging problem due to bad receiver or room?

[atkinsr]

Sorry for the cross-post, but this is relevant to several different forums...

I just bought a set of Definitive BP7001SCs last week (They now have about 150 hrs of usage on them). Mainly for HT, but I've listened to them at several dealers in less then idea settings (one really tiny room, in another room, they were wedged between an entertainment center and a side wall with about 6" on each side of them), in both cases, they still presented a decent soundstage imaging.. in both cases they were hooked to high-end HT receivers.

I have ordered a Yamaha RX-V2500, but until it gets in, I've got them hooked up to an Optimus (Radio Shack) STAV-3790 100x5 (yeah, right) receiver.

I've tried several different speaker placements, and granted my room is a big accoustic challenge (cedar home, cathedral ceiling, hardwood floors (and walls - tongue-in-groove boards), open on one side, stairway at the back of the room).. the usual problems. FWIW, the room is 17x21. Peak of the ceiling is 21ft.

but what I'm wondering is:

Does the source really make THAT huge of a difference in imaging? I would have thought this was mainly a function of the speakers.

I've been in love with Def Tech speakers for years, but right now, they honestly don't sound any better than my 12 year old Infinity SM-155 (awesome speakers for their price range, but not in the same class as these 7001s!)... they are just two speakers, no soundstage at all.

So the question is... do I relax knowing that the new receiver is going to make a world of difference, or have a cow knowing that I've got a TON of accoustic work to do on my living room?

 

[Shinerman]

Imaging is usually more attributed to the actual speakers and their placement within a room as well as the room acoustics. Fine tuning these two things will make the biggest difference.

However, a receiver that is unable to properly drive a certain speaker can also have negative effects on sound, imaging, sounstage, etc. Your Optimus "may not" be able to properly drive the Def Techs.

I would wait until you get your Yammie 2500 in and see what results you have then. If you still have the same issues, it's likely due to placement and/or room acoustics. You have a "LOT" of room to fill with those dimensions.

Shinerman

 

[nm2285]

Two possible problems: 1) room. look into some treatments if you can. 2) I believe you own bipolar speakers. therefore, the sound you're getting is not all direct sound. the purposely reflected sound from the speakers could easily muddy your image.

 

[mtrycrafts]

=atkinsr but what I'm wondering is:

Does the source really make THAT huge of a difference in imaging? I would have thought this was mainly a function of the speakers.

Source? You mean the recordings? It can as the quality of the engineering of the recording can matter.
Certainly your speakers are the major source.
You may also want to check that you have the correct speaker phase for all channels.



So the question is... do I relax knowing that the new receiver is going to make a world of difference, or have a cow knowing that I've got a TON of accoustic work to do on my living room?


No, don't relax. Amps don't affect imaging or soundstage.
Yes, you do have two tons of acoustic work in that room

 

[Shinerman]

No, don't relax. Amps don't affect imaging or soundstage.

Hey Mytrcrafts,

I was reading this and it got me wondering. I made the statement in my response that a improperly driven speaker can have an effect on sound, imaging, soundstage, etc. I know that an amp does not directly effect these things but I would think a speaker, say with a low sensitivity that is not being driven properly, would sound worse than the same properly driven speaker which is turn would have an indirect effect on things like imaging and soundstage. What do ya think?

Shinerman.

 

[atkinsr]

=atkinsr but what I'm wondering is:

Does the source really make THAT huge of a difference in imaging? I would have thought this was mainly a function of the speakers.

Source? You mean the recordings? It can as the quality of the engineering of the recording can matter.

I mean the receiver.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hey Mytrcrafts,

I was reading this and it got me wondering. I made the statement in my response that a improperly driven speaker can have an effect on sound, imaging, soundstage, etc. I know that an amp does not directly effect these things but I would think a speaker, say with a low sensitivity that is not being driven properly, would sound worse than the same properly driven speaker which is turn would have an indirect effect on things like imaging and soundstage. What do ya think?

Shinerman.

Well, that low sensitive speaker will sound just fine to the limits and capability of the amp. The speker may not be loud enough to someone's liking but to that point there is no reason why imaging or soundstage would suffer. At clipping, you get distortion. But then I don't listen at clipping Either I turn it down, get better speakers or more powerful amps

 

[mtrycrafts]

I mean the receiver.

No, no reason why imaging or soundstage will suffer withing the receivers operating parameters. If the receiver's design is not enough to drive it to your volume level, you may need more sensitive speakers or much more power, a lot more. 10X more power will make perceived volume only double.

 

[sjdgpt]

The worse electronic equipmenton the market is capable of presenting a stereo image.

One could debate the merits of the electronics, but simply put, the differences between most and least expensive receivers on the market boil down to internal power supply (the single biggest factor IMHO), noise suppression, quality & durability of components and circuit boards, and the bells and whistles features that are added to "improve" their operation or the users enjoyment.

The imaging that is generated by a specific brand of receiver may not be up to what you desire, but that is usually a result of those bells and whistles that are tweaking the sound to generate a concert hall ambience or similar artificial sound field.


If you have liked the presentation of the speakers in other systems, obviously the speakers are capable of performing up to your standards.


I would wait until the Yammy arrives and then work with your room accoutics, as well as those many bells and whistles on the Yammy receiver, to make your speakers sing to the sound that you desire.