I would like some advice

[markan]

Hi everyone

I'm currently planning on getting a HT system. I'm pretty much new to this scene. The main use of the system will be music, but I'd also like to watch Blu-Ray movies once in a while. I want to start by getting two front speakers, a subwoofer and a multi-channel reciever. My budget for this part is around 2500-3000$. The size of my room is 14x10. I'll probably get a 46'' 1080p LCD TV and I already own a PlayStation 3. I've been doing some research on the web since about a 2 weeks, but I'm still not sure what to get. The real problem is that most of the reviewers that I read like to listen to classic and jazz music, but I don't ! I especially listen to rock music and its subgenres, more specifically death metal. I also like to listen to rap, hiphop and techno music sometimes for fun.

The brands that I have access to are :

For speakers : Paradigm, B&W, Klipsch, JM Labs, Monitor, Energy, Polk, Totem, Revel, KEF, Quad, Warfedale.
For recievers : Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Harman/Kardon, Rotel, Yamaha, Arcam and NAD.

At the moment, I'm thinking on getting Paradigm Studio 20's, a Paradigm Ultracube-10 and a Denon AVR-1909.

What would be better between bookshelf and tower speakers for the music that I listen to and the room size that I have ? Would the PS3 give a good sound quality for music listening ? What kind of cables should I get ?

I've not listened to any system yet because I'd like to know what you think first.

Thanks in advance for your precious advice !

 

[mazersteven]

Get out, and audition the speakers you have access to. Bring your own material (CD's, DVD's) to listen to. With your budget a nice set of bookshelf speakers, and quality subwoofer would make an excellent 2 channel system.

You might want to consider a subwoofer from an internet direct company over some of the brands in brick and mortar stores.

This would be an excellent performing subwoofer in your budget.

http://av123.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,265/category_id,9/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/

 

[3db]

Throw PSB in your audition list as well. My system is built around the PSB Image series speakers having towers for my mains. I went with towers because my system was going to be used 60% music, 40% HT and the Image T45s are a very musical speaker. Thats just me. You may auditon them and not like them at all. I've seen that happen here as well as people just loving them which brings me to my next point.

We can give you all kinds of suggestions but we're not able to hear what you are hearing because your ears our not our ears. I know this sounds dumb but its true. You really need to take the time and audition.

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were themids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooththat made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2
channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick a difficult source like an announcer that mumbles alot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first
instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can
mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes. The specality stores are better setup acousticaly then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning. Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when audtioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume
levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder
speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you
would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using
them most of the time.

 

[Midcow2]

You need to make this a sticky on how to audition - EXCELLENT

Throw PSB in your audition list as well. My system is built around the PSB Image series speakers having towers for my mains. I went with towers because my system was going to be used 60% music, 40% HT and the Image T45s are a very musical speaker. Thats just me. You may auditon them and not like them at all. I've seen that happen here as well as people just loving them which brings me to my next point.

We can give you all kinds of suggestions but we're not able to hear what you are hearing because your ears our not our ears. I know this sounds dumb but its true. You really need to take the time and audition.

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were themids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooththat made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2
channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick a difficult source like an announcer that mumbles alot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first
instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can
mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes. The specality stores are better setup acousticaly then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning. Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when audtioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume
levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder
speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you
would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using
them most of the time.

Thanks 3dB!

You need to make this a sticky on how to audition - EXCELLENT This in one of the best, if not the best, guideline i have seen to how a person should audition. This would be a good "sticky topic by itself!"

 

[rnatalli]

All brands you listed are reputable speaker manufacturers and only your ears will know what you like. Like others mentioned already, get out and audition as many as possible. Speakers are the most important part of your system so take your time and plan to spend about 60-70% of budget on speakers. For a subwoofer, check out SVS and HSU (both sold online). Blue Jeans Cable and Monoprice are my favorite places for cables. No need to spend big bucks on Monster stuff.

 

[Davemcc]

Since you are going to use your receiver and the 1909 doesn't have preouts, give some consideration to the impedence and sensitivity of speakers you choose. Preferably, you will choose an 8 ohm speaker with sensitivity of 90db or higher. With an 8 ohm speaker, you should be able to dip into the 86-87 db range if you really like the speaker without any problems. The problem you might run into is that you might fall in love with a 4 ohm speaker with 86 db sensitivity and that receiver will most likely have trouble driving them, esp. at loud volumes with your particular choices of music (even in your small room).

My suggestion is to leave the choice of receiver open until after you decide on speakers. If you really love some pair of speakers that's difficult to drive, get them. Then choose a receiver or amp that is suited to their needs. If the speakers you choose are easy to drive, so much the better and the 1909 will be sufficient.

One bit of my personal preference, given the rock/metal/hip hop/techno music preference, look towards a Hsu sub, like a VTF2 MK3.

 

[markan]

Thanks everyone for your detailed answers ! I guess I'll have to get out a little bit

I've just found a store not too far that has PSB speakers so I'll go check them.

What the big difference between 4 and 8 ohms speakers ? Would I need an external amp to power 4 ohms speakers ?

 

[Adam]

What the big difference between 4 and 8 ohms speakers ? Would I need an external amp to power 4 ohms speakers ?

The need for an external amp will depend on which receiver you get. There are receivers that will handle a 4 ohm nominal load.

The difference between 4 and 8 ohms is the amount of electrical resistance that the speakers have. This link goes to an article that will explain it better than I could, and it goes into how it affects your amplifier.

 

[jostenmeat]

3db, that is really great advice. I filled out an entire mini Mead notebook during my auditions. I did try jotting while having eyes closed, but that didn't last very long due to the penmanship! lol

However, even in some specialty stores, the acoustics could be pretty bad. I've heard identical models that cost $xx,xxx sound like pure unadulterated crap at one place, and sound like heaven in another.

markan, because of the music you prefer, I lean towards recommending a speaker with excellent sensitivity and power handling.

 

[3db]

3db, that is really great advice. I filled out an entire mini Mead notebook during my auditions. I did try jotting while having eyes closed, but that didn't last very long due to the penmanship! lol

However, even in some specialty stores, the acoustics could be pretty bad. I've heard identical models that cost $xx,xxx sound like pure unadulterated crap at one place, and sound like heaven in another.

markan, because of the music you prefer, I lean towards recommending a speaker with excellent sensitivity and power handling.

Unfortunately, even in the speciality stores, you'll run into bad acoustics. An in home trial is the best way to audition speakers but alot of dealers are understandably reluctant to do that.

 

[3db]

Thanks everyone for your detailed answers ! I guess I'll have to get out a little bit

I've just found a store not too far that has PSB speakers so I'll go check them.

What the big difference between 4 and 8 ohms speakers ? Would I need an external amp to power 4 ohms speakers ?

PSB's Alpha, Image, and G series speakers are rated between 6 and 8 ohms and all decent receivers will be able to drive them into insanely loud levels depending of course of the room size. PSB's Synchrony and Platinum series are 4 ohms and require a stout amplifier to make them sing. The one receiver manufacturer that springs to mind that can drive 4 ohm speakers is NAD. There maybe others but they warn against using 4 ohm speakers. NAD makes no such warning to the best of my knowledge.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What have you listened to so far?

B&W + Rotel sounds pretty good. Have you auditioned them yet?

 

[markan]

What have you listened to so far?

B&W + Rotel sounds pretty good. Have you auditioned them yet?

I've listened to nothing yet I'm going to go shop this Wednesday probably !

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've listened to nothing yet I'm going to go shop this Wednesday probably !

If they have Definitive Technology, give them a try.

One thing to keep in mind is that most stores are not set up for the best sound quality. I recently auditioned 2 excellent speakers - the legendary B&W 800D and the highly regarded Paradigm Studio 100. Unfortunately in both cases, the poor setup and room acoustics completely ruined my experience. The high frequency, midrange, and bass were muddy and unclear. I couldn't believe my ears.

I believe this is the very reason why so many people "disagree" on which speakers sound the best. Every room and speaker setup is different, even in the same building.

Don't be shy and ask them to pull the speakers away from each other and away from the walls.

And bring your OWN CDs!!! That's important!

But the true test is your own room. So make sure whomever you buy from offers a 30-day risk-free return policy.

Another member on this very forum recently bought a highly recommended pair of tower speakers. He thought they sounded terrible - muddy sound, etc. So he returned these speakers and gave the Definitive Technology BP7006 a try in his home. He loved the sound and kept them!

Another member auditioned DefTech, Revel, B&W, and Paradigm. He said it came down to the Paradigm and the DefTech, but decided the Paradigm was the best sounding to him.

Everyone is different.