I thought DENON was reliable?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Did you do a hard reset or go back into the configuration to see if it may have reset, due to a power spike?

Yeah, I did the hard reset 5 times.

Everything seemed to reset, except for the firmware. However, HDMI 1-3 still defective.

 

[Seth=L]

Yes Mac still has a factory in the US and yes some of the internals of the Mac are shared with the TOL Denon PrePro.

You mean TOTL?

I can also attest to the fact that McIntosh still has a factory in the US. Most of their amplifiers are hand made as well.

 

[bandphan]

DM also moved Snell production into one of their buildings.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You mean TOTL?

I can also attest to the fact that McIntosh still has a factory in the US. Most of their amplifiers are hand made as well.

Top Of The Line.

You guys couldn't just say "flagship"?

Anyway, I don't get "hand made". Wouldn't machine do a better job than human "hands"?

Aren't those amps a little too heavy for "hand made"?

 

[GlocksRock]

A Rolls Royce is hand made, and I'd take one of those any day over any car that comes off of a production line.

 

[Seth=L]

Top Of The Line.

You guys couldn't just say "flagship"?

Anyway, I don't get "hand made". Wouldn't machine do a better job than human "hands"?

Aren't those amps a little too heavy for "hand made"?

Hand made, every circuit tested, every solder point tested, grade A selection of parts, parts that test below standards are not used.

Yeah, hand made is better. Machine made is more efficient, and allows production of more product. More doesn't mean better, quicker doesn't mean better.

 

[GranteedEV]

For most stuff that's my policy, providing the warranty is good. It's served me well through A4L purchases, haven't had a problem yet!

Ironically enough, after initially checking if something works, I often feel a bit more comfortable with a factory refurb just because I know it probably went through a full thorough testing of components. In my mind, brand new electronics aren't fully quality checked because of mass-production.

 

[jostenmeat]

Anyway, I don't get "hand made". Wouldn't machine do a better job than human "hands"?

One might think that machines could do a better job with something mechanical looking like guitar tuning machines, but in fact the best in the world are handmade. Handmade allows for much finer tolerances believe it or not so that there is less give, and they are in fact "fine" tuning for on-the-fly-in-concert adjustments (but it makes changing strings a bit more of a nuisance). The cheapest are over $500 though, AFAIK.

 

[bandphan]

Mac's QC is top notch. The even cut their glass in house. I very aware of the cost performance debates, but I can say without a doubt if you by a Mac amp or stereo preamp, you will own it fore life if you choose. I quite sure ADxx would love to have those blue meters and face plates in his rack, hell he is a audio primper

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Mac's QC is top notch. The even cut their glass in house. I very aware of the cost performance debates, but I can say without a doubt if you by a Mac amp or stereo preamp, you will own it fore life if you choose. I quite sure ADxx would love to have those blue meters and face plates in his rack, hell he is a audio primper

But there are no guarantees, right?

I mean nothing is perfect, so even a Mac can become defective and need repair.

If only Mac would warranty their products for 20 yrs.

 

[bandphan]

But there are no guarantees, right?

I mean nothing is perfect, so even a Mac can become defective and need repair.

If only Mac would warranty their products for 20 yrs.

If you have a problem, I'm sure that you would get an acceptable response. You can call tech support and have an hour long conversation on any level. Email Roger Russell and ask him to give you a call before you make a purchase. He doesn't work for them anymore but between his conversation and that of dave or whom every else you talk to at Mac will leave you with the best CS experience you have ever incurred

 

[bandphan]

I also must apologize for my grammar. Im taking a lot of medication and trying to post when I should be taking care of myself. If a piece of Mac equipment fails, I can guarantee you that it will be taken care of. I had a channel go out on an amp that was 23 years old and they would have repaired for free if I would have paid shipping, instead I had it repaired locally by a company they recommended and paid for it. Talk to anyone that owns their gear and you will see.. With the exception of Chris who has claimed to own their products but gave them up for behringer and yamaha

 

[3db]

I also must apologize for my grammar. Im taking a lot of medication and trying to post when I should be taking care of myself. If a piece of Mac equipment fails, I can guarantee you that it will be taken care of. I had a channel go out on an amp that was 23 years old and they would have repaired for free if I would have paid shipping, instead I had it repaired locally by a company they recommended and paid for it. Talk to anyone that owns their gear and you will see.. With the exception of Chris who has claimed to own their products but gave them up for behringer and yamaha

Only one other company stands behind their amps like this, Bryston. They have a 20 yr warranty on their amplifiers and I've read posts were Bryston even fixed out of warranty amps for free. I would not even think twice about buying Bryston if I ran into cash.

 

[bandphan]

Only one other company stands behind their amps like this, Bryston. They have a 20 yr warranty on their amplifiers and I've read posts were Bryston even fixed out of warranty amps for free. I would not even think twice about buying Bryston if I ran into cash.

thats what companies do when they stand behind a rock solid product. I really wouldnt expect that out of processor controlled products, but it wouldnt surprise me. Bryston as well as a couple of others know that with a couple of exceptions , that if you over build with quality components, the products have a very long shelve life

 

[lsiberian]

Top Of The Line.

You guys couldn't just say "flagship"?

Anyway, I don't get "hand made". Wouldn't machine do a better job than human "hands"?

Aren't those amps a little too heavy for "hand made"?

I think you are confusing your soldering skills with those of people with dexterity.

I know I'd much rather have a TLS built setup than a machine one.

 

[bandphan]

I think you are confusing your soldering skills with those of people with dexterity.

I know I'd much rather have a TLS built setup than a machine one.

Since Dr. Mark has follwed Peter Walker, I would too. Walker, Gordon Gow, Hafler, David H. O’Brien, Frank H. McIntosh, and a few others were well versed in amplifier design, I would follow their students too

 

[TLS Guy]

Top Of The Line.

You guys couldn't just say "flagship"?

Anyway, I don't get "hand made". Wouldn't machine do a better job than human "hands"?

Aren't those amps a little too heavy for "hand made"?

My friend has all Mac and I don't like it, except the power amp. Even so I would not swap the power amp for my Quad 909's. I just snagged another for $590 this evening.

The control units are way out of date, and not competitive at all in the current AV environment. The CD player has a Sanyo deck that is not very good.

Part of the trouble is that it is hand made. Complex microprocessors require very close proximity of components as they can't function, because of conduction delay.

So robotically placed surface mount components are the order of the day now.

 

[TLS Guy]

But there are no guarantees, right?

I mean nothing is perfect, so even a Mac can become defective and need repair.

If only Mac would warranty their products for 20 yrs.

Yes, and my friends Mac CD/DVD player has already been back for service.

 

[TLS Guy]

DOH!

Well, okay, maybe I shouldn't be whinning like a little girl.

But you have to admit that it's at least a little disappointing when your gear has issues.

I think my take-home message is that anything can go wrong regardless of brand, price, model, or origin (Japan vs China) of the components.

You are correct. All of the complex chips in AV gear, cell phones etc are made by one of two Far Eastern Groups. One out of China and the other out of Taiwan.

My son tells me there are significant and worsening quality problems with both groups. There is much talk of a new consortium to produce chips in Germany and the US.

However you have to realize these new chips with lots of processing power are inherently fragile.

So you may have had a hand in the failure. With all you have invested in gear, if you are simply plugging it into the wall even via a surge protector or power conditioner, then that is a serious error in judgment.

For what you have invested, whole house surge protection and UPS devices with rapid (1-5 msec) response to relatively small voltage variations needs to be at the foundation of your system. If not you can expect further episodes like you have just encountered.

 

[lsiberian]

You are correct. All of the complex chips in AV gear, cell phones etc are made by one of two Far Eastern Groups. One out of China and the other out of Taiwan.

My son tells me there are significant and worsening quality problems with both groups. There is much talk of a new consortium to produce chips in Germany and the US.

However you have to realize these new chips with lots of processing power are inherently fragile.

So you may have had a hand in the failure. With all you have invested in gear, if you are simply plugging it into the wall even via a surge protector or power conditioner, then that is a serious error in judgment.

For what you have invested, whole house surge protection and UPS devices with rapid (1-5 msec) response to relatively small voltage variations needs to be at the foundation of your system. If not you can expect further episodes like you have just encountered.

Part of the problem is the demand is so incredibly high that is overtaxing the factories. And Mark hits the spot with the fact that they are already fragile. you get smaller and smaller electronics you get more and more issues. Heat is one of the big issues we face now. Having sufficient cooling including fans and someday perhaps even water cooling maybe a good idea for our future. Even with an open rack my receiver benefits from it's own dedicated fan.