I scored open box B&W CM10's for $300

[parkgoons1]

First time poster, long time lurker .

I've been in the market to upgrade from my B&W 683's for the last year. I've gone from considering building the Linkwitz LX521's to almost putting a set of 802D's on my Best Buy credit card.

Today I recieved a $400 gift card for passing an IT cert that was only supposed to be for $250. Sweet, let's go blow some money at Best Buy.

I walked around the store for about a half an hour until I stumble upon a set of open box B&W CM10's. Having never listened to the CM's I had an associate hook them up to a $3000 pioneer reciever. I played some of my favorite tracks from my phone such as Alice in Chains Rooster (unplugged), Alexandre Desplat's Grand Budapest Hotel Soundtrack, then topped it off with a few Dire Straits tracks. Overall the sound was comparable to the 683's but it wasn't a jaw dropping difference.

The associate stated the speakers are $500 each since they're a display model/open box. Although this would be a great deal (75%) off, I didn't want to blow my $400 gift card and another $600 out of my pocket for a speaker I wasn't blown away by. I thanked them for their time and stated that although they sound good, I was happy with the 683's in comparison. I then pointed out a slightly dented tweeter and a minor chip in the paint was also a factor in my decision to walk. The manager stepped in and said how about $339 each?

At this point I'm thinking "Ok now I should just buy and resell them on eBay."

Box them up.

Grand total after the gift card. $327.

Driving home, I was a little excited to hook them up and compare them to the 683's in my listening room where I just installed acoustic panels.

After lugging them upstairs (these are a bit heavier than I expected) I wired them into my XPA-2 amp and let a Norah Jones FLAC album loose.

WOW. I am beyond blown away. My initial impression is the mid and highs are much like the AKG701's. The treble on the CM10's is drastically different than the 683's. The 683's can be harsh at times above 3khz. The CM10's are far more mellow.

Next up some Hans Zimmer. The bass output from the track Mombassa is louder and more accurate than both the 683's plus it's ASW10 sub.

I can't wait to put them to the pipe organ torture test .

Anyone else upgrade from 600 series to CM's? How about from the CM's to 800's?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Congrats!

$680 for CM10 ($4,000 speakers) is a great deal for sure for B&M or ID brands.

It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about the sound compared to other speakers, B&M or ID. I'm sure someone out there will claim their less expensive ID or B&M speakers sound better than your B&W speakers. If you are blown away by the SQ of the CM10, then they are great sounding speakers regardless of what anyone thinks.

Naturally, the 802 & 800 will have a lot more bass than the CM10.

Just enjoy your speakers and the great deal you've scored!

 

[PENG]

Wow, that's a great deal for a pair of CM10! I am just curious about the "slightly dented tweeter" but I assume you did not mean the driver itself so it is just cosmetic right? The XPA-2 should be a decent match to those speakers too as they do have some impedance dips and nasty phase angles.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, I assume it is just diminutive cosmetic imperfection on the tweeter.

 

[ImcLoud]

Thats a great price... All that matters is you love them which is what it sounds like, congrats... X-tra points for using an XPA2...

 

[parkgoons1]

Here's the tweeter damage. The BB associate said B&W would replace it under warranty. I wont be holding my breath, if they do, awesome, if not I could always buy a new tweeter from B&W. Looks like they're around $200.

Does anyone know if this is the same tweeter from the 800 nautilus series? It looks exactly the same. I realize the enclosure is slightly different, but the actual driver seems like it's the same.

Also if I found a set of used 800 diamond tweeters on eBay for example I should be able to upgrade them right? The cross over frequency is the same. And I'm curious if the only difference is the diamond flake on the dome.

One last interesting observervation between the 683 and the CM10. Im hearing highs on the CM10 that I've never heard at all on the 683's despite them having similar drivers. Could it be that B&W is tapering off the highs on the 683's to make the speaker easier on the ears for the average joe? The CM10 is absolutely brutal (more than the k701's) to songs with recording imperfections. I would think that the 683's would reveal some of this, but it's a total night and day difference.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Whoa, you indeed have got great deal for yourself! For some reason most of B&W have had some sort of cosmetic flaws on their elements in my eyes, or maybe I'm just too critical for element quality. If it is indeed only cosmetic you have nothing to worry about but if it effects sound quality or starts getting worse you should be able to ask B&W to replace your element as I suppose these speakers came with warranty? And as for sound, if you like it then its all that matters as you are the one listening to them. Every one likes it different.

Here's the tweeter damage. The BB associate said B&W would replace it under warranty. I wont be holding my breath, if they do, awesome, if not I could always buy a new tweeter from B&W. Looks like they're around $200.

As it looks like that I myself would ask B&W to replace it if they are doing it under warranty. If not and you cant hear it effecting the sound I would keep it like that and change it when it starts to bother you.

And to add, the flaws I have seen have been on mid/low end drivers not tweeter like this.

 

[flyboylr45]

Nice buy!!!! If you were to get the itch to replace the damaged tweeter, you could get the part from here: http://www.bwgroupusa.com/bwgroup-parts/index.php/. Enjoy those speakers!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

One last interesting observervation between the 683 and the CM10. Im hearing highs on the CM10 that I've never heard at all on the 683's despite them having similar drivers. Could it be that B&W is tapering off the highs on the 683's to make the speaker easier on the ears for the average joe? The CM10 is absolutely brutal (more than the k701's) to songs with recording imperfections. I would think that the 683's would reveal some of this, but it's a total night and day difference.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/bw-683-surround-speaker-system-measurements

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/bampw-cm9-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

As you can see, the 683 is about +4dB @ 10kHz while the CM9 is about +1dB @ 10kHz. So the 683 does NOT taper the treble. If anything, the 683 should be more brutal in the treble.

It may just be because you enjoy the CM10 so much that you have turned up the VOLUME and you are able to hear "more details" and more brutal treble "imperfection".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Also if I found a set of used 800 diamond tweeters on eBay for example I should be able to upgrade them right? The cross over frequency is the same. And I'm curious if the only difference is the diamond flake on the dome.

Personally I would not attempt spending over $2K on replacing the existing tweeters with diamond tweeters.

First, B&W would most likely NOT warranty such attempts.

Second, B&W would most likely NOT recommend such attempts.

Third, you may not hear a significant improvement after all that. There is no guarantee. You are just taking a huge $2K+ risk.

Some people may not even notice any significant improvement in the sound going from Diamond to the CM if it were a blinded test.

No single driver makes the speaker great. It is the overall design and implementation of the speaker as a whole.

 

[Swerd]

Here's the tweeter damage. The BB associate said B&W would replace it under warranty. I wont be holding my breath, if they do, awesome, if not I could always buy a new tweeter from B&W. Looks like they're around $200.

If that dent in the aluminum dome is the only damage, you might just keep it. Try removing the dent with an ice cube in a closed plastic bag. Touch the dome with the ice and gently rub it around the surface for several minutes. As the dome cools, the dent might gradually come out. Let the tweeter warm up to room temperature before you listen as the temperature can affect the sound. Its worth a try and can't harm anything.

Does anyone know if this is the same tweeter from the 800 nautilus series? It looks exactly the same. I realize the enclosure is slightly different, but the actual driver seems like it's the same.

Also if I found a set of used 800 diamond tweeters on eBay for example I should be able to upgrade them right? The cross over frequency is the same. And I'm curious if the only difference is the diamond flake on the dome.

Although the two tweeters look similar, I doubt if they are interchangeable. The crossovers filters between the mid woofer and tweeters in the 600, CM, and 800 series are probably quite different, despite having the same crossover frequencies. An 800 nautilus (or diamond) tweeter will not likely work as intended with the crossover filter included in your CM10s. If you want to replace the tweeter, stay with the one that B&W supplies.

One last interesting observervation between the 683 and the CM10. Im hearing highs on the CM10 that I've never heard at all on the 683's despite them having similar drivers. Could it be that B&W is tapering off the highs on the 683's to make the speaker easier on the ears for the average joe? The CM10 is absolutely brutal (more than the k701's) to songs with recording imperfections. I would think that the 683's would reveal some of this, but it's a total night and day difference.

You are assuming the drivers are similar because of their looks. Based on your own listening, they clearly sound different. They likely have different drivers and different crossover filters.

The first graph is the 683. Pay attention to the purple trace when comparing it to the sound of CM9 below.

This purple trace on this graph is the CM9.

Between 1,000 and 10,000 Hz, the 683's frequency response is far from smooth when compared to the CM9. I'll guess that the lack of highs you describe may be due to the large dip centered around 2,000 Hz.

The large peak, centered just below 4,000 Hz may contribute to the harshness you also described. Many other owners of 600 series speakers complain of that too. I'm pretty sure that's caused by breakup noise coming from the mid woofer that isn't filtered out enough by the 4,000 Hz crossover frequency. More effective (and expensive) crossover filters may be one of the more important differences between the 600 series and CM series. But I can't rule out differences between the drivers (mid woofers and tweeters) themselves. B&W seems to make an effort at making them look similar, but they clearly behave differently.

Enjoy your CM10s. You got a great price, and from your own description of the sound, the dented tweeter may be working fine.

 

[ousooner2]

Wow! Hell of a price on the CM10's. I'd buy them at that price in a heartbeat