I own a Denon AVR X4500-Do I need a DAC?

S

S.Hale

Audiophyte
I read a article that is 6 years old stating a DAC is not necessary for a mid receiver which I have - Denon AVR x4500. But I've read other articles in different publication that a good DAC is very important and worth investing in. So what is it, do I need one or not? I cannot find any info regarding my receiver and the specs. on being hi-res. I know they claim it's hi-res, but they don't give any specs. Any info would be welcome!

Scott
scotthale01@aol.com
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
I read a article that is 6 years old stating a DAC is not necessary for a mid receiver which I have - Denon AVR x4500. But I've read other articles in different publication that a good DAC is very important and worth investing in. So what is it, do I need one or not? I cannot find any info regarding my receiver and the specs. on being hi-res. I know they claim it's hi-res, but they don't give any specs. Any info would be welcome!

Scott
scotthale01@aol.com
You don't need a separate DAC. Your AVR has the DAC modules required to convert digital sources via the HDMI inputs to an analog signal for driving the inboard amplifiers and connected speakers. Don't believe every hearsay and info written in audiophool magazines. Your X4500 is a competent AVR which can take care of all your audio sources.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Your Denon has a very good dac, don't worry about it. Specifications for supported files are on page 303 of the downloadable pdf manual.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
I concur with the above. You do not need an external or superfluous DAC. :)
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
I read a article that is 6 years old stating a DAC is not necessary for a mid receiver which I have - Denon AVR x4500. But I've read other articles in different publication that a good DAC is very important and worth investing in. So what is it, do I need one or not? I cannot find any info regarding my receiver and the specs. on being hi-res. I know they claim it's hi-res, but they don't give any specs. Any info would be welcome!

Scott
scotthale01@aol.com
DACs are important...and in some cases an upgrade can actually be heard...for instance...your laptop computer has a DAC built in it...laptops in general are not built to be music devices so the attention the DAC gets is not the same quality as your AVR. Same with a tablet or cellphone...yes, you can improve the listening experience with an external DAC...I have a little Denon headphone amp/dac attached to my laptop with noticeable improvement.

That said...as you probably know, external DACs can go well into the 1000s of dollars and the performance gain from the DAC in your AVR is slight if any audible difference...especially with moderately priced speakers...I wouldn't totally avoid an external DAC, but the more you spend the less ROI you realize imo.

I haven't checked, but it wouldn't surprise me if your 4500 has the same DAC as my Marantz prepro av7702mkii.
 
S

S.Hale

Audiophyte
I would like to thank all of you for your honest advice! I will not buy a external DAC.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Definitely don't waste a dime on DAC.

Unless you have golden ears that claim to be able to hear THD of > 0.003% or SNR < 90dB, don't worry about any DAC in any AVR or Pre-pro.

Bottom line - don't worry about chasing DACs, CD players, Amps, Preamps, and Wires/Cables - they don't have a sound signature of their own (unless you have golden ears). Focus on Speakers and Processors (EQ, DSP) since they will sound differently.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I haven't checked, but it wouldn't surprise me if your 4500 has the same DAC as my Marantz prepro av7702mkii.
Good point, you are correct, both have the AK4458 for the main zone and PCM5100 for zone 2/3 and network.
The AV7702 has the PCM1690 that has lower specs but not by a lot.
 
T

trtu

Audiophyte
Definitely don't waste a dime on DAC.

Unless you have golden ears that claim to be able to hear THD of > 0.003% or SNR < 90dB, don't worry about any DAC in any AVR or Pre-pro.

Bottom line - don't worry about chasing DACs, CD players, Amps, Preamps, and Wires/Cables - they don't have a sound signature of their own (unless you have golden ears). Focus on Speakers and Processors (EQ, DSP) since they will sound differently.
What EQ or DSP would you recommend to start with?

I searched a little bit and found these 2 products:
Behringer-DEQ2496-Ultracurve-Pro-digitaler-EQ

Are these something worth playing around with?

Thank you so much for your feedback
 
P

paulgyro

Audioholic Intern
Definitely don't waste a dime on DAC.

Unless you have golden ears that claim to be able to hear THD of > 0.003% or SNR < 90dB, don't worry about any DAC in any AVR or Pre-pro.

Bottom line - don't worry about chasing DACs, CD players, Amps, Preamps, and Wires/Cables - they don't have a sound signature of their own (unless you have golden ears). Focus on Speakers and Processors (EQ, DSP) since they will sound differently.
I agree but I'd add acoustically treating your room is just as important as speakers!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I agree but I'd add acoustically treating your room is just as important as speakers!
With that in mind, check out the latest Audioholics videos talking about room acoustics/treatment Gene's doing with Anthony Grimani....
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
I agree but I'd add acoustically treating your room is just as important as speakers!
It can be if the person takes the time to learn about what they're doing! ;) ...And better: why! :D
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
I know I've stated this before, but it bears repeating.
I have seen countless threads and posts where people are "treating" their rooms...
To what? Certainly not a 3*** Dinner at a posh restaurant!
I've seen many experienced cats turn around and say they eventually took most of the treatments they did away. What did they discover? They had overdone the room treatment and had made the resulting response in-room almost as bad as it was before!

Yes, Acoustics is a big topic, but you do not have to be an expert to learn a little about it and make informed decisions. Just like shopping for Speakers and even Electronics!
I would love to see a comparative analysis of what GIK can do remotely just using your room measurements vs what an informed consumer could do on their own with a little common sense and a fraction of the budget, probably.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I know I've stated this before, but it bears repeating.
I have seen countless threads and posts where people are "treating" their rooms...
To what? Certainly not a 3*** Dinner at a posh restaurant!
I've seen many experienced cats turn around and say they eventually took most of the treatments they did away. What did they discover? They had overdone the room treatment and had made the resulting response in-room almost as bad as it was before!

Yes, Acoustics is a big topic, but you do not have to be an expert to learn a little about it and make informed decisions. Just like shopping for Speakers and even Electronics!
I would love to see a comparative analysis of what GIK can do remotely just using your room measurements vs what an informed consumer could do on their own with a little common sense and a fraction of the budget, probably.
Then again certain consumer assumptions definitely play a part in all of this like audio in general. Information and understanding it goes a long ways....
 
M

MDK210

Junior Audioholic
DACs are important...and in some cases an upgrade can actually be heard...for instance...your laptop computer has a DAC built in it...laptops in general are not built to be music devices so the attention the DAC gets is not the same quality as your AVR. Same with a tablet or cellphone...yes, you can improve the listening experience with an external DAC...I have a little Denon headphone amp/dac attached to my laptop with noticeable improvement.

That said...as you probably know, external DACs can go well into the 1000s of dollars and the performance gain from the DAC in your AVR is slight if any audible difference...especially with moderately priced speakers...I wouldn't totally avoid an external DAC, but the more you spend the less ROI you realize imo.

I haven't checked, but it wouldn't surprise me if your 4500 has the same DAC as my Marantz prepro av7702mkii.
This is obviously subjective. If you have a computer that's a decade old compared to a DAC built in recent years then maybe but you can take a multiple thousand dollar Halo May DAC and a Topping D30 with no discernable difference to the end user. I bet 98% of the population wouldn't be able to tell the difference with any DAC built in the last 5yrs from a reputable company. Odds are good your amp is doing more for your experience than a DAC as long as your phone is relatively new.

I remember when iPods that had Wolfson DACs were touted as better than the newer ones with Cirrus. I owned both and absolutely zero difference.
 
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