I need help deciding between JBL SUB-550P and Klipsch R-12SW

C

chocobo

Audiophyte
I'm relatively new to home theater setups, just bought my first receiver in December and had a 3.0 setup and I was looking to add a sub. I bought a little 6.5 HTIB ported subwoofer for $20 on Craigslist and it made a big difference, but then I started reading about how much better it is to have a decent quality subwoofer ($200 minimum, though some would say $500) and how it makes a world of difference.

In late December I bought the JBL SUB-550P on sale (10", sealed) ... and frankly it was a bit disappointing. I can't tell much difference between in and the small HTIB sub. It's also not louder or more impactful, and I have to turn the gain almost all the way up for it to be loud enough... at 50% it's barely audible. I wouldn't know if all sealed subs are this much quieter than ported ones, but I wasn't expecting this. I suppose it sounds a bit "tighter" compared to the HTIB sub but I expected more for my money. I probably just don't know what to listen for to appreciate the difference.

Costco had a sale on the Klipsch R-12SW so I decided to grab one and see if it makes much difference, it's an easy return otherwise. Once again the sound quality seems almost the same to me. There's one major difference - it's MUCH louder, I only have to set the gain set to 35 or 40%. One smaller difference, I ran this bass frequency test and noticed the volume's a bit uneven, lower around 80Hz and then higher around 40-50Hz and then falling again below 40. From what I've read this is very common for ported subs. The sealed JBL sub has more consistent volume.

I will be using this for TV shows and movies, and I can't make up my mind on which sub I should keep. I always thinking "maybe I can find out more info and make a more informed choice" but I always feel that I might be making the wrong decision. BTW I have zero interest in turning it up high and having window-rattling, overpowering bass where footsteps sound like explosions... I just want quality sound for my shows and movies. I don't need all the output that the Klipsch is capable of.

Also, I haven't tested different locations for the sub because there's only one place it fits in my room, which is to the side of the TV stand. As far as I can tell a "dead zone" is not the problem here.

Should I keep the JBL because it's more consistent and isn't "boomy"? Or is it a bad thing to have to run a subwoofer with the gain turned up so high all the time, which means I should pick the Klipsch instead?

Or maybe I'm so clueless about all of this stuff that I might as well stick with the HTIB sub because I can't appreciate anything better...
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Well you definitely learned first hand differences in ported over sealed. If you really do have 500 to spend, go to SVS and buy a PB12 NSD. It will be better in every way to both the klipsch and JBL. Output, extension, and linearity. If you can return both, do it now.
If not, keep the klipsch, as the ported will suit you better. I like JBL better than klipsch as a brand but neither make great subwoofers.
Also, the bass tests were indicative of the room, it subwoofer type.

 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
The companies hat specialize in building quality subs are Hsu, SVS, Outlaw, Rythmik... Paradigm, PSA tend to get honorable mentions.
I would avoid most subs that come from companies that are first and foremost about speakers (Klipsch, Polk, ELAC, etc)

For the best value, I would say look at Hsu VTF2. This is, for the money, probably the best you can do.

If budget is super tight, there is the Dayton Audio Sub1200 available through Parts Express. It might be the best budget sub available, though I don’t think it will compete against any of the above companies.

Also if significant importance is placement in the room and proper setup and integration with your system.
Learn about the subwoofer crawl to help you understand where to put the sub for its best acoustical performance. Many great articles here on AH about that, and set-up/integration!

Cheers!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The gain on the sub is merely to match up with the pre-out level from your avr/pre-amp. What are you using for gear to help integrate the sub?

The JBL 550p is not one of the best JBL subs but JBL doesn't really concentrate on home theater subs otoh. I'd avoid Klipsch in favor of the sub specialists as mentioned.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
The companies hat specialize in building quality subs are Hsu, SVS, Outlaw, Rythmik... Paradigm, PSA tend to get honorable mentions.
I would avoid most subs that come from companies that are first and foremost about speakers (Klipsch, Polk, ELAC, etc)

For the best value, I would say look at Hsu VTF2. This is, for the money, probably the best you can do.

If budget is super tight, there is the Dayton Audio Sub1200 available through Parts Express. It might be the best budget sub available, though I don’t think it will compete against any of the above companies.

Also if significant importance is placement in the room and proper setup and integration with your system.
Learn about the subwoofer crawl to help you understand where to put the sub for its best acoustical performance. Many great articles here on AH about that, and set-up/integration!

Cheers!
My money is on the HSU VTF2 as well great choice
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
If you can, see if there is a place closer to a wall and corner you can locate the JBL to take advantage of room gain before you do anything else!
It is free and could reveal some of what issue you are having.
For a 6.5 HTiB sub to be more fulfilling than a 10" JBL sealed sub would lead me to believe that the 6.5" sub is tuned more for max output than overall performance. IOW, it probably emphasizes a very specific bandwidth that it can reproduce loudly with the port tuning while not attempting to be balanced.
The JBL is not in the same league as the ID sub manufacturers product, but it does have a pretty good driver. I'm inclined to believe it should provide reasonable competition for a 6.5" HTiB sub!
Are you using a setup routine to integrate it? What receiver.
To summarize, I agree with others that you would probably benefit from a better sub, but I also feel that something about your setup is inhibiting you from realizing the capability of the JBL sub. Since improving the setup is free and will be a good learning experience whether you get a better sub or not, I would suggest playing with what you have before spending money (especially since you made the comment that you did not especially want super deep bass.
Have you tried the subwoofer crawl?
 
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C

chocobo

Audiophyte
Thank you for the responses but a $500+ sub is not in my budget right now. I am only deciding between those two, I am not a true "audioholic" yet and just want something halfway decent for shows and movies. I'm sure a $500 sub is amazing but I'm sticking with something lower budget for now.

I suppose I could try the Dayton SUB-1200 but is it really better than the JBL and Klipsch that I've tried already?

Basically I just want to know if it's bad to keep the JBL if it needs to be turned up so high, and if the R-12SW is a decent alternative at $200. I know the "real subs" are at $500 but I'm in the budget sub category for now.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think you're not going to see any improvements by simply changing to another budget sub. What electronics are you using with it? Why are your placement options so limited? WAF?
 
C

chocobo

Audiophyte
I have a Yamaha RX-V373 receiver and Sony Core bookshelves and center. There's just not another good place for the sub anywhere else in the room, and I don't think placement is the issue here anyway. I agree that there probably wouldn't be any real sound quality difference between budget subs.

What it boils down to is that I'd like to have some input from people with more knowledge than myself, on whether they'd personally rather use a budget sealed 10" sub with the gain at 90%, or a budget ported 12" sub with the gain at 40%.

Reviews praise the build quality and sound quality of the JBL but I've also read that it isn't good to have the gain on the sub turned up high permanently. Is that true and something to be concerned about? Or is that irrelevant and that I'm better off with that than a boomy ported sub that goes much louder than I'd ever need? I'm so new to this stuff I feel like I'm not informed enough to make the right decision.

Obviously it's not a huge deal either way, I just don't want to do something like pick the JBL, see it die on me in a year, and hear "you had it turned up to 90% the whole time? you were asking for trouble". Just trying to avoid a mistake here.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
As I mentioned before, the gain on the sub is to match the level on your avr. Are you using YPAO or doing it manually with an spl meter or just by ear? Location of a sub is one of the most important, if not most important for a single sub, considerations....

As long as the signal you're feeding the sub is reasonable I wouldn't worry about running gain on an amp at full, but each sub amp is different. While many plate amps only need gain turned up 1/4-1/3 area like the ones I've had, there are others that need the gain turned up higher. Your avr's pre-out level has something to do with it, too. Does JBL have a warning in the manual not to use full gain setting?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I have a Yamaha RX-V373 receiver and Sony Core bookshelves and center. There's just not another good place for the sub anywhere else in the room, and I don't think placement is the issue here anyway. I agree that there probably wouldn't be any real sound quality difference between budget subs.
I don't believe you understand how important location of the sub is to your end result. Buying a $1500 sub will not overcome bad placement - depending on what is going on it could make things worse! The most likely benefit of getting a different sub is if it has some ability to tune the sound to your needs. Even so, you are far better off if you optimize placement before tuning.
However, if you are stuck with the one location, your experience is your reality. Bottom line - if you can only place the sub in that one location, your best bet is to stick with whatever sub sounds best to you and all bets are off as to whether a more powerful sub will perform better.
However, I would implore you to do the sub crawl and play with moving the sub around the room just to temporarily explore what differences might be had and also to perhaps resolve what you have read vs what you are experiencing! This would also be worthwhile if you foresee setting up a system in a future home or simply another room.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
One other thought, since you are concerned about the 90% level on the JBL, I believe using a Y-splitter like this and connecting to both the "L" and "R" inputs on the back of your sub will effectively increase the gain of the input signal so you can lower the volume at the sub.

I'm not positive this will work, but it is a common trick when the "auto-on" feature of a sub is not switching on because the input signal is too weak to activate it.
Alternately if there is a way to increase the sub output at your AVR, that might be preferred.

PS- you can also try flipping the phase switch to see if it makes any difference. It is free to try, but I wouldn't get too hopeful about that.
 
P

pewternhrata

Audioholic Chief
Thank you for the responses but a $500+ sub is not in my budget right now. I am only deciding between those two, I am not a true "audioholic" yet and just want something halfway decent for shows and movies. I'm sure a $500 sub is amazing but I'm sticking with something lower budget for now.

I suppose I could try the Dayton SUB-1200 but is it really better than the JBL and Klipsch that I've tried already?

Basically I just want to know if it's bad to keep the JBL if it needs to be turned up so high, and if the R-12SW is a decent alternative at $200. I know the "real subs" are at $500 but I'm in the budget sub category for now.
Anything entry levep will mostly all net the same results. Have you considered 3rd party sale sites? I've gotten great deals, better price used than something new and cheap, makes it easier when you're familiar with audio, you can identify who to 'trust' more based on some knowledge of the hobby. (If that person is responsible with their equipment)
 
N

needmoresubs

Audiophyte
I'm relatively new to home theater setups, just bought my first receiver in December and had a 3.0 setup and I was looking to add a sub. I bought a little 6.5 HTIB ported subwoofer for $20 on Craigslist and it made a big difference, but then I started reading about how much better it is to have a decent quality subwoofer ($200 minimum, though some would say $500) and how it makes a world of difference.

In late December I bought the JBL SUB-550P on sale (10", sealed) ... and frankly it was a bit disappointing. I can't tell much difference between in and the small HTIB sub. It's also not louder or more impactful, and I have to turn the gain almost all the way up for it to be loud enough... at 50% it's barely audible. I wouldn't know if all sealed subs are this much quieter than ported ones, but I wasn't expecting this. I suppose it sounds a bit "tighter" compared to the HTIB sub but I expected more for my money. I probably just don't know what to listen for to appreciate the difference.

Costco had a sale on the Klipsch R-12SW so I decided to grab one and see if it makes much difference, it's an easy return otherwise. Once again the sound quality seems almost the same to me. There's one major difference - it's MUCH louder, I only have to set the gain set to 35 or 40%. One smaller difference, I ran this bass frequency test and noticed the volume's a bit uneven, lower around 80Hz and then higher around 40-50Hz and then falling again below 40. From what I've read this is very common for ported subs. The sealed JBL sub has more consistent volume.

I will be using this for TV shows and movies, and I can't make up my mind on which sub I should keep. I always thinking "maybe I can find out more info and make a more informed choice" but I always feel that I might be making the wrong decision. BTW I have zero interest in turning it up high and having window-rattling, overpowering bass where footsteps sound like explosions... I just want quality sound for my shows and movies. I don't need all the output that the Klipsch is capable of.

Also, I haven't tested different locations for the sub because there's only one place it fits in my room, which is to the side of the TV stand. As far as I can tell a "dead zone" is not the problem here.

Should I keep the JBL because it's more consistent and isn't "boomy"? Or is it a bad thing to have to run a subwoofer with the gain turned up so high all the time, which means I should pick the Klipsch instead?

Or maybe I'm so clueless about all of this stuff that I might as well stick with the HTIB sub because I can't appreciate anything better...
Hey just letting you know that you almost certainly got a defective sub. I run 2 jbl 550's and when I ordered the first one it was LOUD. I decided to add another because I have a huge room with vaulted ceilings. When the second one arrived it was just as you described. I turned the gain to 90 and it was so quiet. Got a replacement and my setup shakes hard with gain at 40 on both. awesome subs!
 
B

Blutarsky78

Audiophyte
I'm relatively new to home theater setups, just bought my first receiver in December and had a 3.0 setup and I was looking to add a sub. I bought a little 6.5 HTIB ported subwoofer for $20 on Craigslist and it made a big difference, but then I started reading about how much better it is to have a decent quality subwoofer ($200 minimum, though some would say $500) and how it makes a world of difference.

In late December I bought the JBL SUB-550P on sale (10", sealed) ... and frankly it was a bit disappointing. I can't tell much difference between in and the small HTIB sub. It's also not louder or more impactful, and I have to turn the gain almost all the way up for it to be loud enough... at 50% it's barely audible. I wouldn't know if all sealed subs are this much quieter than ported ones, but I wasn't expecting this. I suppose it sounds a bit "tighter" compared to the HTIB sub but I expected more for my money. I probably just don't know what to listen for to appreciate the difference.

Costco had a sale on the Klipsch R-12SW so I decided to grab one and see if it makes much difference, it's an easy return otherwise. Once again the sound quality seems almost the same to me. There's one major difference - it's MUCH louder, I only have to set the gain set to 35 or 40%. One smaller difference, I ran this bass frequency test and noticed the volume's a bit uneven, lower around 80Hz and then higher around 40-50Hz and then falling again below 40. From what I've read this is very common for ported subs. The sealed JBL sub has more consistent volume.

I will be using this for TV shows and movies, and I can't make up my mind on which sub I should keep. I always thinking "maybe I can find out more info and make a more informed choice" but I always feel that I might be making the wrong decision. BTW I have zero interest in turning it up high and having window-rattling, overpowering bass where footsteps sound like explosions... I just want quality sound for my shows and movies. I don't need all the output that the Klipsch is capable of.

Also, I haven't tested different locations for the sub because there's only one place it fits in my room, which is to the side of the TV stand. As far as I can tell a "dead zone" is not the problem here.

Should I keep the JBL because it's more consistent and isn't "boomy"? Or is it a bad thing to have to run a subwoofer with the gain turned up so high all the time, which means I should pick the Klipsch instead?

Or maybe I'm so clueless about all of this stuff that I might as well stick with the HTIB sub because I can't appreciate anything better...
Just want to point out that the JBL 550P is on sale for $189 right now on JBL.com
 

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