I drew a simple diagram of my living room, could someone pls advise where to set up the calibration mic?

Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
I'm not a consultant by any means but thanks for the vote of confidence. :) I have learned a great deal from the members here over the last year.

Addressing the speaker height, ideally they should be at the same height but you have some leeway there. Given your seating distance, having the left speaker lower by 7" is not too bad but the closer to the centre height the better. If the left side is more restrictive, place that one first and then place the right at the same height to match. There are acoustic foam wedges that can angle bookshelf speakers down so that the speaker is pointed at ear level when seated, but that is something that can be addressed later if needed.

The Focal comes from the factory for vertical mounting, so I think you'll have to remove the mid/tweeter and rotate it 90' for horizontal installation (tweeter above the mid).

My only concern with the KEFs is timbre matching. I ran a different version centre for a while and it bothered me. You want the dialogue to sound the same as it pans from left to centre to right and the ear is most sensitive in the range for vocals. Would be ideal if there was a shop that had Q150s you could try or that had a good return policy. The Focal Chora 806 might be a better match but the Q150 sure is a steal right now at $350. If you could use the Q150 elsewhere, like in a den, you could try them in living room first and if not a good match to the Focal, relegate them to another room and upgrade the mains?
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic General
Hey Chris,

I don't get your last 2 posts (maybe I just need more coffee today...) but I'll respond to the 3rd one back (post #20 in this thread).

I haven't heard the KEF-150s, so I'll leave it to others to comment on how good they sound. I know they have a "sale" going until January 8th. Perhaps you could audition them with return rights from a local dealer if you aren't satisfied. You could temporarily set them up in your room (without the IW6 installed for testing only).

Somehow we are missing the point that these (some folks call them "Bed" level) speakers are to be at ear height when seated. So adding 6 inches to get to the middle of the KEF 150s when mounted vertically & 4" for the IW6 makes them go from 50>57>36 to 56>61>42 . (I think the KEF 150s can be mounted horizontally without impact like the CCB-8s => I did so with my CCB-8 center => but you may not like the aesthetic.)

Besides the sound impact, don't you think it'll look weird having these 3 speakers at different levels? Will the Misses go for that long term? I'd level the bookshelves up on the centerline of the IW6, put them on wall brackets, and tilt them down towards the listener. Then let the receiver do it's magic as best it can during set-up.

You will get reasonable sound except for your favorite position 1a in the EZ chair. But again, it's going to be very much superior to the sound of the Q90N - especially with the Subs.

I hope this is helpful.
 
19Chris67

19Chris67

Enthusiast
Hey Chris,

I don't get your last 2 posts (maybe I just need more coffee today...) but I'll respond to the 3rd one back (post #20 in this thread).
No worries Jim just me making a funny

I haven't heard the KEF-150s, so I'll leave it to others to comment on how good they sound. I know they have a "sale" going until January 8th.
Glad to know this. But strange..spoke with Crutchfield today, rep could only tell me when the sale started, not when it ended.

..adding 6 inches to get to the middle of the KEF 150s when mounted vertically & 4" for the IW6 makes them go from 50>57>36 to 56>61>42
From what I gather here Jim, mounting both kefs to the back wall (on an arm of sorts) and at cc level is the idea? Yes?

I’m not sure what you mean tho regarding the IW6? So it’s horizontal height comes in at 8-5/8”. my space between the bottom of the television and top of the mantle is 9”. No wiggle room.

don't you think it'll look weird having these 3 speakers at different levels? Will the Misses go for that long term? I'd level the bookshelves up on the centerline of the IW6, put them on wall brackets, and tilt them down towards the listener. Then let the receiver do it's magic as best it can during set-up.
Yes, in my minds eye it’s looking weirder by the second. Q parade rain. As far as her approval ‘long term’, she won’t say anything...after saying something. I want a happy life tho..know what I’m saying? In all honesty, I wish I hadn’t bought the center channel. It would save me the hassle of cutting into this beautiful new fireplace surround that I just had remodeled and widened. Thought I was doing the best thing aesthetically with a very minimalist, flush, in-wall three-way center channel with not frame. Far be it for me to get it right the first time. I digress.

You will get reasonable sound except for your favorite position 1a in the EZ chair. But again, it's going to be very much superior to the sound of the Q90N - especially with the Subs.
Reasonable is good. Or is it? And that’s with all seats I won’t be sitting in. My my my. For the privilege of spending the money I get the worst ht seat in the house. But being an optimist, I still have the most comfortable seat. Ha!
 
Last edited:
19Chris67

19Chris67

Enthusiast
Reasonable sound messing with my brain a little bit . I’m tempted to not cut into my fireplace, buy some 36 inch stands and throw CCB eights on them.

Is there a market for a brand new in box Focal?
 
19Chris67

19Chris67

Enthusiast
I'm not a consultant by any means but thanks for the vote of confidence. :) I have learned a great deal from the members here over the last year.

Addressing the speaker height, ideally they should be at the same height but you have some leeway there. Given your seating distance, having the left speaker lower by 7" is not too bad but the closer to the centre height the better. If the left side is more restrictive, place that one first and then place the right at the same height to match. There are acoustic foam wedges that can angle bookshelf speakers down so that the speaker is pointed at ear level when seated, but that is something that can be addressed later if needed.

The Focal comes from the factory for vertical mounting, so I think you'll have to remove the mid/tweeter and rotate it 90' for horizontal installation (tweeter above the mid).

My only concern with the KEFs is timbre matching. I ran a different version centre for a while and it bothered me. You want the dialogue to sound the same as it pans from left to centre to right and the ear is most sensitive in the range for vocals. Would be ideal if there was a shop that had Q150s you could try or that had a good return policy. The Focal Chora 806 might be a better match but the Q150 sure is a steal right now at $350. If you could use the Q150 elsewhere, like in a den, you could try them in living room first and if not a good match to the Focal, relegate them to another room and upgrade the mains?
Thanks Eppie..
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic General
Glad to know this. But strange..spoke with Crutchfield today, rep could only tell me when the sale started, not when it ended.

It's on the KEF Site ;)

From what I gather here Jim, mounting both kefs to the back wall (on an arm of sorts) and at cc level is the idea? Yes? ;)

I’m not sure what you mean tho regarding the IW6? So it’s horizontal height comes in at 8-5/8”. my space between the bottom of the television and top of the mantle is 9”. No wiggle room.

My 4 inch add to get to the centerline was basically half of the 8 5/8" (I ignored the fraction.) as I assumed the speaker's bottom edge was going to be at the 57 inches you posted.

Reasonable is good. Or is it? And that’s with all seats I won’t be sitting in. My my my. For the privilege of spending the money I get the worst ht seat in the house. But being an optimist, I still have the most comfortable seat. Ha!

During our Main Floor Reno, I may have gotten leeway with speakers but lost my 4 Lay-Z-boy recliners to a large sectional and couches that my wife and her designer wanted. 2 of the recliners made it to the basement to the Man Cave /Junk room and 7.1 HT system there.
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic General
Reasonable sound messing with my brain a little bit . I’m tempted to not cut into my fireplace, buy some 36 inch stands and throw CCB eights on them.

Is there a market for a brand new in box Focal?
I have no idea. Sorry.
 
19Chris67

19Chris67

Enthusiast
During our Main Floor Reno, I may have gotten leeway with speakers but lost my 4 Lay-Z-boy recliners to a large sectional and couches that my wife and her designer wanted. 2 of the recliners made it to the basement to the Man Cave /Junk room and 7.1 HT system there.
That’s a win-win if there ever was.
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic General
That’s a win-win if there ever was.
Not really. I would have liked at least 1 Lay-Z-boy in the Games Room where the Atmos set-up is and the new Samsung 75 inch TV is. I like to watch sports (Football & Hockey) and it is great for that. But I make do with the sectional. (Life is tough ;) )

Happy New Year to all!
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic General
@19Chris67

Hey Chris, do you have an update for us? It would be interesting to hear how you got this project sorted.

Thanks.
 
W

Wardog555

Full Audioholic
Solution. Different room and ensure proper placements and heights etc including the tv. That's why I have my Dolby atmos in my bedroom.

Pros.
No woman to worry about or enforcement about badly placed speakers.
Accurate surround sound experience.
Comfortable tv height. Eg not over a fireplace.

No cons at all!

Here's a video to help convince you to do what is best!
 
19Chris67

19Chris67

Enthusiast
I sure do! Hello Jim, we are very impressed with the upgrade. The sound quality is absolutely night and day different from what we had.

The subwoofer was going to be a problem, I thought…I almost traded up to the bigger PB-3000 but decided to audition a single pb2k instead. It turned out to be more than enough, for us anyway. So much so that when watching anything other than a movie, we have to go “in app” and dial it back to -30dB. Very surprising as there was an overwhelming consensus dual PB2k’s would be necessary..especially considering room size (over 900 cubic, 18-ft ceilings, connecting galley kitchen, open thru-ways). All things considered, I feel like we got plain lucky here—or just don't know good sound from bad when we hear it.

For the front L/R I went with Focal Aria 906. Blown away by these. I do have a comparison here as I initially purchased Dali Oberon 1. Good looking Speaker excellent YouTube reviews but I couldn’t hear them. I don’t know if it was because they have different frequency responses, but very underwhelming—at least with my equipment. When I swapped them out with Focal Aria 906 it was a humongous difference..and honestly, I’ve never heard speakers even close to this good. Handsome units too. They sound awesome—at all volumes—just crazy great and crystal clear, especially in comparison to the Dali’s.

Regarding the center Focal in-wall center channel, it’s fantastic too, but with a caveat. When it’s cranked up, all good, just like a movie theater. The problem is; it’s too high, and I can’t do anything about it unless I modify the angle. But it’s in the wall, over the mantel and I’m afraid I’ll have to live with. If I thought modifying the angle would completely solve the issue I’d make a go of it. So if you could imagine the focal in-wall oriented sideways (long way left to right). I could manufacture a spacer and situate it behind the top flange. Between the flange and drywall. Then pull it out for aesthetic reasons when not watching a movie. The mantel is shallow, just 7”. I can somewhat see that if angled it (sound) would still clear the mantel front edge. Even a quarter inch spacer, see the thickness of two paint sticks, would make a significant difference considering we’re seated 16 feet away. Feels like a lot of trouble for a dying body (tell), poor excuse for vanishing w/o updating. I digress. Isn’t it funny tho how situations like mine never allow focus on the finer things. For long anyway. Other than that, I am doing great and the movie room/living room was a super huge upgrade! back to a super delicious 2nd cup of coffee hope your weekend is fantastic Jim.


Incredible advice from this thread all

Pogre
“if you're sticking with a Focal center channel I'd try to stay with Focal”

“Speaker placement and room acoustics have the most influence on performance by a very large margin. This is not to say it won't sound good if it isn't perfect, but the further you stray from ideal the more potential for acoustic problems like negative reflections or cancellation you introduce. Generally every compromise will cost you something in sound quality. The best speakers in the world can sound like crap with poor enough placement and seating.”

Eppie
“If the L+R are going to be a good 10 or 12 feet apart, then I would consider a centre”

Jim
“Besides the sound impact, don't you think it'll look weird having these 3 speakers at different levels? Will the Misses go for that long term? I'd level the bookshelves up on the centerline of the IW6, put them on wall brackets, and tilt them down towards the listener. Then let the receiver do it's magic as best it can during set-up.”

Sorry if I left anyone out.
 

Attachments

-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic General
Hi Chris,

Glad you got it sorted and are happy with the results. I hope you got a deal on the Focal Aria 906s. Can you post a photo of the speakers as installed showing their height?

I'm surprised at the Sub problem. Did you use Audyssey in the Denon to set it up? Most folks seem to complain the Bass is too light, if anything, and push it up a few notches. I'd re-run Audyssey and see if that improves things. I'd use the center of the couch (sorry) directly in front of the TV as the "prime" seating area. I'd also be tempted to move the Sub under the Buffet Table to even out the Bass somewhat.

But as long as you are happy, that's the main thing.
 
19Chris67

19Chris67

Enthusiast

Hi Jim thank you for the response. We are happy, yes. I bought the 906 Aria’s online from a popular site where you can sell your used gear. I can’t for the life of me remember the name which is incredibly frustrating. I believe they’re the first place people go to list their equipment . If memory serves correctly, I saved in the neighborhood of 40%. They shipped in the original box, very well packaged. I was impressed as there wasn’t solitary blemish in either speaker. Even had the French sticker on the glass tops.

I really don’t have anything to complain about as far as the subwoofer is concerned although I prefer to turn it down, as I said, but that’s just personal preference where I don’t need/want as much bass while watching programs, news etc..

Jim, I believe I initially had the wrong measurements, see the last uploaded diagram for accurate heights. Just a note on that; I can still bring the right speaker up 4 inches matching the left with the use of a spacer of some sort. Understanding everything would sound better if all three were at <ear> level, but at this point, it is what it is. Honestly, I can’t imagine anything sounding better. I think about tilting that center down all the time though.

as far as the calibration is concerned I did exactly as you suggest and used the center seat. That’s it for now looking forward to hearing what you think. Later gator
 
Last edited:
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks for posting the video. Nice room! The centre might seem high, but some people even mount the centre over the TV, not under it. You primarily want the dialogue to sound like it is coming from TV, so even if the bookshelves are a little lower it's a pretty reasonable compromise. I also played with my sub levels between TV and music listening but eventually found a happy median.
 
19Chris67

19Chris67

Enthusiast
Yeah, thanks Eppie.. there was really nowhere to go with the TV except above the fireplace, in turn the cc. We enjoy it much more than we thought so I guess you could say our expectations were exceeded. Thank you very much for your help. Very nice system you have there!
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top