HTPC Audio

[itschris]

I'm getting close to start building my HTPC. I've made the decision to pretty much abandon the blu-ray and dvd server aspects of it and primarily use it as a music server (I'm in the process of ripping all my discs in uncompressed wav format), a DVR, and a place to put our family photos and vids.

My question is, should I still try to find an HDMI audio/video solution or should I just go optical coax out and Component to the receiver? I want to use Media Center as my front end so bear that in mind. My main concern is getting audio quality for the ripped library so if you have a good sound card option let me know as well.

 

[gus6464]

IMO don't build an HTPC if it's just going to be for music only. Get yourself a Netgear ReadyNAS DUO with 2 hard drives of your choice and get yourself a squeezebox duet. Run squeezecenter on the readyNAS and that's it. You will have pretty much unlimited storage capabilities with easy setup and redundancy.

 

[itschris]

It's not going to be just for music though. I do want DVR capabilities and the ability to stream those to other parts of the house. I do want to have the options of being able to bring up the internet and other apps on the TV.

Recently, I've been hooking my laptop up to the tv at night to get work done. I work in finance and I have these ridiculous spreadsheets I create and it's nice to have them on the big screen.

 

[OttoMatic]

If you're going to be using it for music, I'd forget about HDMI. To me, it's just a pain in the backside. I use it when I have to, and that's about it. Your audio will be fine on optical or coax digital, of course.

I might suggest using a different format than .wav, though. Although one benefit of it is smaller file size, I find a more important benefit to be that of mp3-style file tagging. Those tags will allow you to sort and play your music based on artist, title, album, etc., etc. .wav does not accommodate those tags, and you will have to maintain your own directory structure and the file names will probably be cryptic. I have been using .FLAC for several years now, much as you describe, and it's been perfect. My wife can use it without complaints, if that's worth anything to you.

We also store movied and pictures, like you are going to do. It's very convenient for everyone.

Although I kinda shot down HDMI for audio only, I might suggest you reconsider the DVD/BluRay capability. I can play DVDs over my network, but not yet BluRay. I would like to be able to do that, but I need to upgrade the video card, and perhaps other components. If you don't go for the HDMI video card now, you might at least spec the rest of the machine to be able to do BluRay in the future. I use PowerDVD, and they have specs there for what's needed for BluRay playback. Just a thought.

Good luck!

 

[evilkat]

I use a DVI cable to output my video (from a pathetic Nvidia 8600GT) to my TV. Sound is via a Creative Audigy card using coax.

A decent audio option would be to go with an Asus Xonar DX (D2 is the more expensive variant) which has very favorable reviews and a relatively low price (probably lower than pro audio cards). If you're any sort of gamer it can do Dolby transcoding of EAX games (supposedly EAX 5.0) so that you can game on your HT system as well.

 

[itschris]

Good stuff. I didn't realize the tagging issue with wav. I just want the best no compromise way to rip my discs. I have about half of what I got so far in FLAC, but changed my mind because I like the idea of no compression. I know it shouldn't matter but I just feel better about having a perfect copy of the disc. I do need to have tags and all that stuff though. With that in mind, what do you recommend... especially if I need to recreate discs?

I'm passing on blu-ray because I already have a player and I just no longer have the patience to get things to work. I've read a lot of stuff on the AVS forum and it just seems way too complicated at this point with really no solid solutions for the new surround formats. I'd like to copy my DVD's to the HTPC, but I'm not sure how to get that done ... in a way that retains everything in a perfect copy. My understanding is that there's no legal way to copy a DVD and I guess I just don't care enough to jump through hoops to do it.

If you're going to be using it for music, I'd forget about HDMI. To me, it's just a pain in the backside. I use it when I have to, and that's about it. Your audio will be fine on optical or coax digital, of course.

I might suggest using a different format than .wav, though. Although one benefit of it is smaller file size, I find a more important benefit to be that of mp3-style file tagging. Those tags will allow you to sort and play your music based on artist, title, album, etc., etc. .wav does not accommodate those tags, and you will have to maintain your own directory structure and the file names will probably be cryptic. I have been using .FLAC for several years now, much as you describe, and it's been perfect. My wife can use it without complaints, if that's worth anything to you.

We also store movied and pictures, like you are going to do. It's very convenient for everyone.

Although I kinda shot down HDMI for audio only, I might suggest you reconsider the DVD/BluRay capability. I can play DVDs over my network, but not yet BluRay. I would like to be able to do that, but I need to upgrade the video card, and perhaps other components. If you don't go for the HDMI video card now, you might at least spec the rest of the machine to be able to do BluRay in the future. I use PowerDVD, and they have specs there for what's needed for BluRay playback. Just a thought.

Good luck!

 

[itschris]

Thanks for the info. I'll check that card out. I was thinking I'd want HDMI for the simple reason of passing 1080p to the tv if I need/want to. That was the only reason I guess. DVI can do that correct? I know component is limited to 1080i if I'm not mistaken.

I'd really like to have the best audio I can within reason and the option you mentioned seems like a good route to take.

I use a DVI cable to output my video (from a pathetic Nvidia 8600GT) to my TV. Sound is via a Creative Audigy card using coax.

A decent audio option would be to go with an Asus Xonar DX (D2 is the more expensive variant) which has very favorable reviews and a relatively low price (probably lower than pro audio cards). If you're any sort of gamer it can do Dolby transcoding of EAX games (supposedly EAX 5.0) so that you can game on your HT system as well.

 

[OttoMatic]

Good stuff. I didn't realize the tagging issue with wav. I just want the best no compromise way to rip my discs. I have about half of what I got so far in FLAC, but changed my mind because I like the idea of no compression. I know it shouldn't matter but I just feel better about having a perfect copy of the disc. I do need to have tags and all that stuff though. With that in mind, what do you recommend... especially if I need to recreate discs?

I use Exact Audio Copy to spawn an external FLAC compression session. I have very few problems with tagging and such. I use dBPowerAmp (not free, but like $30) to switch between flac and mp3 or wav if I need it.

I'm passing on blu-ray because I already have a player and I just no longer have the patience to get things to work.

Yeah, I hear ya on that. That's one reason I have no HDMI in my preamp. Just a pain!

I'd like to copy my DVD's to the HTPC, but I'm not sure how to get that done ... in a way that retains everything in a perfect copy. My understanding is that there's no legal way to copy a DVD and I guess I just don't care enough to jump through hoops to do it.

Yeah, I think it's not technically legal, and there have been discussions on whether or not you can legally back up your own discs. Either way, DVDCopy or DVDExtractor or whatever will do it easily. I wouldn't advocate trading, streaming or selling copies of DVDs, of course, but for personal backups I personally don't have any ethical problem with it. It's the same as me copying my CDs to my server.

 

[strube]

itschris,

Take a look at this thread. I can claim a lot of experience with building custom PCs and HTPCs, and I disagree that HDMI is as difficult as others claim, but my recommended implementation won't pass DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD. I found that doing HDMI with a video card (as opposed to the one available sound card, the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3) to be simple and straightforward.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50336

Yeah, I think it's not technically legal, and there have been discussions on whether or not you can legally back up your own discs. Either way, DVDCopy or DVDExtractor or whatever will do it easily. I wouldn't advocate trading, streaming or selling copies of DVDs, of course, but for personal backups I personally don't have any ethical problem with it. It's the same as me copying my CDs to my server.

Backing up discs that you own, and circumventing copy protection to do so, is supposedly legal, which is why they haven't shut down companies like SlySoft, who makes AnyDVD copy protection removal software.

P.S. I have to second a recommendation for FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec). They now have a similar tagging system to MP3 and recently enabled embedded album art, so they are basically lossless MP3's now. I use Easy CDDA Extractor for my ripping needs and it works well for the most part, but it is also much easier to use than some other alternatives, even though it costs a little bit of money. I also use MediaMonkey (free) to manage my file tags and embedded album art.

 

[gus6464]

Why buy a separate sound card when a cheap $100 Radeon 4650 can handle 1080p video and 7.1 MPCM audio all day long with no problems. Plus if you later decide to go BD the card will do True-HD and DTS-HD as long as you use the right software player. The Catalyst drivers also have no problems with audio through HDMI unlike the Xonar cards.

 

[strube]

Why buy a separate sound card when a cheap $100 Radeon 4650 can handle 1080p video and 7.1 MPCM audio all day long with no problems. Plus if you later decide to go BD the card will do True-HD and DTS-HD as long as you use the right software player. The Catalyst drivers also have no problems with audio through HDMI unlike the Xonar cards.

IMHO ATI's audio solution isn't anywhere near Audiophile grade, and some argue it is lower quality than using the onboard Realtek or SigmaTel audio.

 

[OttoMatic]

IMHO ATI's audio solution isn't anywhere near Audiophile grade, and some argue it is lower quality than using the onboard Realtek or SigmaTel audio.

Are you saying that any of the above have problems passing digital audio through HDMI, optical or coax digital? Really?

 

[strube]

Are you saying that any of the above have problems passing digital audio through HDMI, optical or coax digital? Really?

Absolutely not, I am simply arguing that audio quality is not as good with any of these devices as a dedicated sound card from ASUS, Auzentech, or even Creative Labs.

I have actually never had a problem (at least one that could not be solved relatively easily) with passing audio through HDMI, optical, or coax digital with any device...

EDIT: I must say however that I have had the best experience with NVIDIA's HDMI solution, and have always been unimpressed by ATI's, because NVIDIA passes audio through HDMI via a direct connection to the soundcard, whereas ATI does some strange software emulation that is a burden to the CPU and has pretty poor audio quality.

 

[OttoMatic]

Absolutely not, I am simply arguing that audio quality is not as good with any of these devices as a dedicated sound card from ASUS, Auzentech, or even Creative Labs.

Oh, on the analog side, I would agree that there could be differences. But I think we're all talking digital here -- either HDMI or some opti/coax connection (could be wrong). I wouldn't bother trying to get some fancy, expensive analog card working on a PC -- just go digital out.

EDIT: I must say however that I have had the best experience with NVIDIA's HDMI solution, and have always been unimpressed by ATI's, because NVIDIA passes audio through HDMI via a direct connection to the soundcard, whereas ATI does some strange software emulation that is a burden to the CPU and has pretty poor audio quality.

I would have to agree here as well. I will never intentionally buy another ATI product, unless they somehow prove that they can create a reliable solution with reliable drivers. Every time I get an ATI product (e.g., at work), I'm driven nuts by sub-par control, features and drivers.

Thanks!

 

[itschris]

The thing I don't want to get into and probably the main reason I don't want to go blu-ray is that I don't want to mess around with different software to do what I want. At 39, I've got this "been there, done that" attitude and I just want things to work... period. I don't want to have to run plug-ins and all kinds of ancillary software. I would just like to use the Media Center interface and call it a day. Granted, I realize I'm missing out some stuff, but I'm sure in time, things will all catch up.

I do like the idea of being able to copy my DVD's the more I think about it... as long as I can get a perfect copy with the Dolby Digital/DTS surround. I'm assuming the software you mentioned will do that.

I'm not opposed to buying the right stuff. I'd rather spend an extra couple of hundred dollars and get the best solution... which I think would be a seperate sound card and seperate video card and just leave all the onboard stuff disabled. I don't mind HDMI... I don't seem to have any issues with waht I've got so far. So, if I have seperate cards, what/how would be the best way to hook it up? Would I run HDMI from the videio and coax from the sound or can I plug the sound card into the video card and just run one HDMI cable? Whatever specific recommondations you guys have are appreciated.

I'm still trying to get a good handle on all this so thanks for the patience?

 

[strube]

So, if I have seperate cards, what/how would be the best way to hook it up? Would I run HDMI from the videio and coax from the sound or can I plug the sound card into the video card and just run one HDMI cable? Whatever specific recommondations you guys have are appreciated.

HDMI audio is easy in my opinion. I would recommend the same thing to you as I did in the post I linked before - it is relatively simple to connect an internal digital audio pin on the sound blaster sound card.

I don't think the alternative is that bad either, just what you said: run video through HDMI and audio through Coax. The only difference is the one extra cable, and it may be more of a pain than it is worth getting HDMI audio for you.

Just stick with NVIDIA video cards, and go with an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude (I will recommend this one over the others if you don't care about internal HDMI audio connections because it was designed with audiophiles in mind), CreativeLabs X-Fi (go with this one if you want easy internal HDMI audio connection), or Asus Xonar D2X(this would be lowest on my list because of poorer software than the others - none of them have great software, but Auzentech has the best of the three). Onboard sound quality is not the same as dedicated soundcard quality, even through digital out, at least to my ears.

I linked recommendations at Newegg on the other thread I mentioned in a previous post.

Hope this helps!

 

[OttoMatic]

I do like the idea of being able to copy my DVD's the more I think about it... as long as I can get a perfect copy with the Dolby Digital/DTS surround. I'm assuming the software you mentioned will do that.

Yes, it will look just like you are playing the DVD on a standalone machine. All audio options will be available. I remember the names better now -- DVDDecrypter and DVDFab.

 

[itschris]

Perfect. I think the only drawback to running coax wouuld be if I decide down the road to push blu-ray as well. But at the same time, by the time I get urge to do that... I imagine there will be solid hardware solutions with much better support from Media Center.

HDMI audio is easy in my opinion. I would recommend the same thing to you as I did in the post I linked before - it is relatively simple to connect an internal digital audio pin on the sound blaster sound card.

I don't think the alternative is that bad either, just what you said: run video through HDMI and audio through Coax. The only difference is the one extra cable, and it may be more of a pain than it is worth getting HDMI audio for you.

Just stick with NVIDIA video cards, and go with an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude (I will recommend this one over the others if you don't care about internal HDMI audio connections because it was designed with audiophiles in mind), CreativeLabs X-Fi (go with this one if you want easy internal HDMI audio connection), or Asus Xonar D2X(this would be lowest on my list because of poorer software than the others - none of them have great software, but Auzentech has the best of the three). Onboard sound quality is not the same as dedicated soundcard quality, even through digital out, at least to my ears.

I linked recommendations at Newegg on the other thread I mentioned in a previous post.

Hope this helps!

 

[strube]

...by the time I get urge to do that... I imagine there will be solid hardware solutions with much better support from Media Center.

Absolutely. I myself am waiting for HDMI hardware to mature before I go for the HDMI audio cards that can do the blu-ray audio formats. My prediction is that technology maturity is at least a year out (it is out now but certainly unrefined).

 

[gus6464]

IMHO ATI's audio solution isn't anywhere near Audiophile grade, and some argue it is lower quality than using the onboard Realtek or SigmaTel audio.

Umm it outputs the sound in PCM. The software does all the decoding before sending it out so if anything the decoder is to blame. Digital is digital so how are 0's and 1's from one source better than another?