HTM Measures the B&W 802D2

[mike c]

drop it guys. click ignore on each other

 

[STRONGBADF1]

drop it guys. click ignore on each other

I've been waiting for you to show up and the kinder gentler Mike shows...I feel jipped.

 

[Adam]

...genteeler...

That must be East Coast slang.

 

[cpp]

Tongue-in-cheek.

There have been a few guys asking for comments about buying speakers blindly, specifically the SS8, which is $8-10K depending on finish.

I tell them to keep an open mind and audition as many speakers as feasible.

But this Nuance guy always gets defensive and keeps on telling them to buy Salk blindly.

Gets on my nerve when people recommend spending $8-10K blindly without ever listening.

I guess I don't want people making a possible $10K mistake.

But I should not let any of that bother me. I should just enjoy what I have and be quiet.

Or maybe I just wanted to stir things up a little.

I agree with ya. People just need to listen to the sound first unless they just have loads of money to spend blindly. In my opinion and maybe my opinion only, you have to listen to the equipment in your own room, it's acoustic makeup, the supporting equipment etc.. before a purchase is made. Measurements are nice as a starting point but the real test comes in the home. I would never purchase any audio equipment without a listening test in my home unless the vendor let me trial the equipment with a return policy. All of my equipment was purchased this way with the exception of my J.M. Reynaud speakers (Offrande Supreme) which I auditioned for 3 days while on a business trip in France. I liked what I heard.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

That must be East Coast slang.

Just making sure you were paying attention...

 

[Irvrobinson]

I agree with ya. People just need to listen to the sound first unless they just have loads of money to spend blindly.

On this point I completely agree. Even with subwoofers, I was of the mind that if I couldn't listen and examine it was off the list.

my opinion and maybe my opinion only, you have to listen to the equipment in your own room, it's acoustic makeup, the supporting equipment etc.. before a purchase is made. Measurements are nice as a starting point but the real test comes in the home. I would never purchase any audio equipment without a listening test in my home unless the vendor let me trial the equipment with a return policy. All of my equipment was purchased this way with the exception of my J.M. Reynaud speakers (Offrande Supreme) which I auditioned for 3 days while on a business trip in France. I liked what I heard.

On the in-your-own-room criteria I've had to compromise. I used to do that with the Levinson electronics, but there was a local dealer with loaners. And with electronics I'm not even sure much of an audition is necessary, unless we're discussing amplifiers and you have very difficult to drive speakers.

Even with speakers I haven't been able to pull off in-room auditions. Nonetheless, I did travel to hear some of the candidates, so I heard them before buying. For the sub I bought locally, and the dealer said he'd take it back if I didn't like it, but I couldn't get an in-room audition. Still, for speakers, especially large ones, home auditions are unlikely to be a practical request.

 

[Nuance AH]

The only way to listen to an Internet Direct speaker is either order a pair or find a local owner to audition them for you. The nice thing is I'D companies off 30-day in-home trial period, so you CAN actual listen in your own home and send them back if you don't like them. It's win win. It's obvious ADTG doesn't care about that part of the business model and has a vendetta with said model. To each their own. But to flat out lie or misinform is not cool. I always tell people to listen before they purchase; it's common sense. His personal attack and vendetta against me is ridiculous and actually pathetic. But lies don't hurt me, and I'll keep on keeping on.

Salk makes great speakers, as does Kef, Revel, JBL, Dynaudio, etc. I'll keep on recommending what I feel is good when someone asks, and I'd expect all of you to do the same.

Peace.

 

[PENG]

I agree with ya. People just need to listen to the sound first unless they just have loads of money to spend blindly. In my opinion and maybe my opinion only, you have to listen to the equipment in your own room, it's acoustic makeup, the supporting equipment etc.. before a purchase is made. Measurements are nice as a starting point but the real test comes in the home. I would never purchase any audio equipment without a listening test in my home unless the vendor let me trial the equipment with a return policy. All of my equipment was purchased this way with the exception of my J.M. Reynaud speakers (Offrande Supreme) which I auditioned for 3 days while on a business trip in France. I liked what I heard.

Good point, it is not easy to do though.

 

[fuzz092888]

It's been so long since I've seen you two go at it, maybe I've just been looking in the wrong places. Here I thought we'd all begun to get along, now here we are again.

I agree with nearly everything that has been said in this thread by everyone, to a degree. I think in the past you both have been guilty of maybe jumping on each other a bit prematurely, but in this instance, ADTG, I think you may have jumped in head first when you should've dipped a toe in.

I like both of you guys and if you can get past the personal attacks, a lot of good information usually comes out in your back-and-forth-type exchanges (granted with most people it's like tossing a ball back and forth, while you two fire nuclear arsenals at each other).

ADTG, you definitely misunderstood him in this instance. I think it's funny as well that you bounce back and forth in your opinion of things. You're passionate so that's bound to happen.

Nuance, I know what you meant, but I don't think your response helped matters. IMHO, since you understood he misunderstood you I think you can see that launching a personal attack back would only make matters worse.

I know both of you guys have a lot of personal history, much of which I'll never understand, and you have no reason to listen to a thing I've just said. However, I can't help but wonder what life would be like if you confined your arguing to audio related topics.

Believe me, I'm one of the last people you'll ever meet advocating everyone sit down in a big circle and sing kumbaya with each other, then have a big hug fest, but I mean c'mon. I hate to see two knowledgable, intelligent men regress to the level of the retarded high schoolers I deal with on a daily basis. You two are better than that.

Just throwin' that out there.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

drop it guys. click ignore on each other

Sorry.

Done.

 

[Impulse]

I would just like to add, for the greater good of the thread, that i have just finished some brownies, and they are delicious. All of those who want some, say "aye."

 

[Irvrobinson]

The only way to listen to an Internet Direct speaker is either order a pair or find a local owner to audition them for you. The nice thing is I'D companies off 30-day in-home trial period, so you CAN actual listen in your own home and send them back if you don't like them. It's win win.

Yup, except that when the speaker or sub weighs about 140 pounds or more it's a royal PITA to risk a home trial unless you're sure. I'd at least want a demo, retail or private owner, with the big stuff.

 

[Nuance AH]

Yup, except that when the speaker or sub weighs about 140 pounds or more it's a royal PITA to risk a home trial unless you're sure. I'd at least want a demo, retail or private owner, with the big stuff.

To each their own.

 

[DS-21]

Yup, except that when the speaker or sub weighs about 140 pounds or more it's a royal PITA to risk a home trial unless you're sure. I'd at least want a demo, retail or private owner, with the big stuff.

Yup.

People forget that shipping costs for large speakers are non-trivial.

For example, a couple weeks ago I had AJ's Soundfield Audio Monitor 1's in my home - review pending - and sending two of them properly packed from ATL to TX was over 80 bucks. And those are relatively compact, not-too-heavy (~43lbs each, packed) speakers.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I've been waiting for you to show up and the kinder gentler Mike shows...I feel jipped.

That must be East Coast slang.

Just making sure you were paying attention...

He wasn't.

It's "gypped" and it's not a nice word....maybe that's why you deliberately misspelled it?

 

[STRONGBADF1]

He wasn't.

It's "gypped" and it's not a nice word....maybe that's why you deliberately misspelled it?

Learn something new everyday. I like etymology...I'm not good at it but I like it.

 

[Nuance AH]

Yup.

People forget that shipping costs for large speakers are non-trivial.

For example, a couple weeks ago I had AJ's Soundfield Audio Monitor 1's in my home - review pending - and sending two of them properly packed from ATL to TX was over 80 bucks. And those are relatively compact, not-too-heavy (~43lbs each, packed) speakers.

You're right. With that said, the cost of shipping is worth the price for many to ensure they've purchased the right product for their needs. Some ID companies also cover shipping both ways. Dealers are less and less accommodating these days regarding in-home auditions, so the ID business model wins more and more folks over every day. You can also hear most of the ID brands at audio shows, such as RMAF (just this past weekend).

 

[Steve81]

He wasn't.

It's "gypped" and it's not a nice word....maybe that's why you deliberately misspelled it?

Interestingly I never knew the origins of that word till I watched an episode of House where he went out of his way to insult a group of Gypsies, then it all clicked.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We all have our preferences. Many of us have been guilty of passing premature judgement on certain speakers and amps.

I used to say that so and so speakers must suck because they don't measure up. I was wrong to pass judgement before I've even listened to those speakers.

I had just gotten my new issue of HTM on Saturday and the featured review system was the B&W/ Classe. So just in case there were some B&W fans out there, I wanted to post the latest numbers.

I didn't mean to promote B&W and recommend that people to buy B&W or debate between BM vs ID.

I just meant to discuss the numbers.

Measurement is one thing; how the speakers sound may not reflect that.

But am I the only one to be (pleasantly) surprised that the B&W was under the +/- 3 dB range?

Just like when I saw one time that the NHT Absolute Zero measured +/- 0.9 dB, I posted those numbers too, although I don't currently own any NHT.

Again, I didn't mean to promote buying B&W blindly.

 

[JerryLove]

Send me all your speakers and I'll tell you which one wins.