HT setup and opinions on what I am looking at.

[paulwgraber]

So. I am finishing my living room remodel. While by far not an ideal room for HT it is what I have till I remodel my game room. So, it is a very large room with 12' cathedral ceilings. Yes, I know not ideal. But it is what I have to work with. At first, I was going to do a soundbar setup and keep it simple, but I think I am going the AVR route now. I want rear and true Atmos sound, and I cannot run power to a soundbar rears up in the ceiling. Plus, the living room is open into the kitchen as well so no back wall or even side walls. Like I said very large open room. While I love my SB in my master bedroom, I just want something more for my living room. It is a very open room which extends into the kitchen. I also do not want floor standing speakers, or any speakers mounted to walls. I need this room to be clean and wire free. So, I have decided to go the AVR route with all IW for my LCR and IC speakers for rears and height. Yes, I know the limitations of IW stuff. But this is what I have to work with.

Media: HEAVY gaming. PS5, Series X and movie watching of course.

TV: Kind of leaning towards Sony 85" X90L. Would like a mini-LED or OLED but $$$$ is a factor. Opinions?

AVR: I used to be a huge Yammy guy but thinking of switching to the Onkyo RZ50 just to try something diff. But I have heard it has issues re: HDMI signals Opinions?

Speakers: Here is really where I need your help. Looking at Monoprice THX IW's and IC's. I'm half deaf anyway so I don't need to drop 1K per speaker on 9 speakers. LOL So I've heard decent things about the Monoprice series IW and the round IC ones. Remember all my speakers have to be clean in wall and in ceiling. I can't be running power in 12" ceilings. I can manage speaker wire, but power? No.

Sub: I know this sounds stupid, but does anybody make a really good SW in white?

Im guessing Im going for a 7.1.2 setup.

I got to keep the wife happy.

opinions please. Again, I can spend some money, but I don't want to go nuts and just keep it reasonable.

Thx everyone in advance.

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[isolar8001]

RSL has white subs...you haven't stated any budget, so advising anything is a waste of time until you do.
RSL will sell you AVR and all in a package deal with in wall speakers.

https://rslspeakers.com/w25e-in-wall-speaker/

 

[shadyJ]

The Monoprice THX in-wall stuff is going to be solid, no doubt. RSL's subs are good and come in white. Arendal Sound also has very good subs that come in white, but they are a bit more expensive.

 

[Wardog555]

Start by keeping yourself happy. This is number one in terms of importance.

Then read these before starting anything.
Do whatever it takes to have ear level surrounds. This is essential for Dolby atmos. If you don't have any. Say good bye to the home theater potential.

My living room is horrible to the point I only use my bedroom for watching my movies and tv series. If you are unwilling to follow the Dolby guidelines or come close. Do yourself a favor and use another fully enclosed room.

https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf

Salesforce

dolby.my.salesforce.com

I am willing to assist you in achieving nothing but accurate results. I won't tell you any miss information like you can place speakers anywhere you feel like and get the same results.
Even seating position in the room and viewing distance from the screen is somewhat important. And speaker placement is chosen from your seating position.

 

[paulwgraber]

I totally understand. I was just trying to get a good compromise knowing that my living room is not ideal which is why at first I was like F it, soundbar and be done. But, again while its great in my bedroom im just not a huge SB guy even though my bedroom does sound pretty good. As for budget this is what Im looking at:

TV: sub 2K
LCR speakers: sub $320 each
AVR: Sub $1500
Surrounds and atmos: Sub 90 pair maybe:
Sub woofer: $800

It's just the room is so big and open which is great, just not HT specs.

I already know Im not going to get textbook atmos sound out of it but was thinking of a nice compromise until the day come when I can make my Game Room/ HT.

 

[lovinthehd]

It doesn't sound like a very good room for a full Atmos setup. Maybe not even surrounds, if you can't place them well (how are you placing surrounds and rear surrounds in wall?). I assume the cathedral ceiling is angled, how do you plan to overcome that in mounting in-ceiling speakers? A few companies can provide subs in white, tho.

 

[paulwgraber]

Well Im thinking anything is better than just a SB.

 

[nicoleise]

Your project seems to have some similarly to mine, but mine is somewhat off in the future. I'm going to start a project thread soon though, to begin clarifying some things. So if you're not literally on fire to get this going, maybe give a few days?

I'm intending to build a 9.4.4 layout in a room with cathedral ceilings (not an English native, but I think it's what you'd describe it as) whee everything but LCR is (semi)hidden.

Also, could you please upload a picture/drawing/sketch or describe the cross section of the room. Like what height the vertical walls (crawlspace walls?) are and such.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well Im thinking anything is better than just a SB.

Can still be better than a SB. In walls wouldn't be my preference particularly, but even a good 3.1 setup can be very nice too.

 

[paulwgraber]

Your project seems to have some similarly to mine, but mine is somewhat off in the future. I'm going to start a project thread soon though, to begin clarifying some things. So if you're not literally on fire to get this going, maybe give a few days?

I'm intending to build a 9.4.4 layout in a room with cathedral ceilings (not an English native, but I think it's what you'd describe it as) where everything but LCR is (semi)hidden.

Also, could you please upload a picture/drawing/sketch or describe the cross section of the room. Like what height the vertical walls (crawlspace walls?) are and such.

I'm in no hurry. I still have to lay my flooring down. The people in this forum have been pretty cool but the AVS forum people scathed me. Told me it was a complete waste of time because of my room. I get that. I'll try and draw out a nice diagram of my room. I'm just trying to get ahead and ready when that time comes. I'm like 90% on the Onkyo RZ50, 75% on the Sony X90L. (TCL and Hisense running a close 2nd 3rd maybe) Its either go for HDR pop with Hisense or accuracy with Sony. Hisense would probably be best for gaming but Ive always wanted a big Sony and I know their algorithms are a cut above. So, I don't know. The longer I wait the more prices will drop.

Speakers IDK. Probably still Monoprice. I do have to do inwalls. I don't have a choice. I mean I could do real speakers but nah the wife would have me. Can't do it. Prob RSL 12" sub white.

As far as 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 I don't know. Would more speakers even help my situation? Not sure.

 

[Eppie]

Photos or drawing of the room would help, but if you have an odd L-shaped room or cathedral ceilings, then less is typically better. The front 3 are the most important. Then think about the bed layer as a whole. 5 speakers is usually enough. 7 typically means adding rear speakers to the side surrounds. How well can those be placed and will the placement conform to the Dolby standard? If the bed layer can be setup properly, then you can consider adding ATMOS to the mix.

If going with 2 surround speakers, the first choice is usually side surrounds slightly behind the main listening position, which is preferred to just having two rear speakers. If your only option is to have them ceiling mounted, then I would just go with 2 surround speakers to the side and a little behind the seating area. It does not make sense to install 4 surrounds in the ceiling. Your AVR will not process the sound properly as in-ceiling is already a compromise.

Sorry to inform you that with in-ceiling surrounds ATMOS speakers will be a waste of money. For ATMOS to work properly, you need a proper 5 or 7 speaker bed layer, and that means all speakers are ear level and at the proper angles. Once you move the surrounds to the ceiling, you will no longer be able to produce the sound bubble that ATMOS can create. Save that for your planned game / theatre room. If the ceiling is high, front height or rear height speakers in the top of the wall might be an option.

Many will recommend that you only go 3.1 with that type of room layout. I have used in-ceiling surrounds and personally, I liked what they added. Not great, but better than not having them. If you insist on having rear speakers, you could have the surrounds to the sides and the rears well behind you in the ceiling, but you'll never get realistic surround with that setup because the speaker placement is not correct and does not match what the AVR is expecting. I would go with 5.1, forget the ATMOS and put the money saved into a killer setup in the game room. Maybe install height speakers if the room and AVR accommodate them.

Yamaha is still a good choice for AVRs if you like that brand. Also look at Denon for best price and performance.

 

[paulwgraber]

Here is a drawing of my room basic layout

 

[nicoleise]

Here is a drawing of my room basic layout

At the (high) risk of a WAF-related incident, given that room I would actually get creative and see if rear surrounds could be built into the island under the counter.

The side channels seem like they might be difficult to place though. Especially with in-walls in exterior walls.

I think there's a separate question you should ask yourself first. Do you actually want surround and why? What I mean is, what is your reason. I understand you'll have a dedicated room later on, and this is obviously mixed use, so the possibilities for letting it rip are less. For example when entertaining, it's also nice if people are able to have a conversation somewhere.

When that is clear, it's probably also clear to you just how far you're willing to take this. I ask because in your OP it could seem like a bit of an impulse; was thinking of soundbars, now this until that - to paraphrase.

For example, one solution could perhaps be installing the side speakers in the ceilings, but that means no Atmos (you need separation between bedlayer and heights). But that's a compromise to what you're asking.

And at that point, I'd personally ask myself what I'm even doing and simply get good stereo towers or even a 3.1 or 3.0 setup and simply use that.

But my way of thinking is generally pursuing ideals all the time. So in that sense, if I want to make a HT, I'll try to make every aspect as ideal as my competence and budget will allow. That motivates me. So if I have to make too many (to me) unreasonable compromises, I'd simply rather not at all. That's my mind - probably not yours.

I would suggest, while contemplating the question a bit, if you maybe have a setup in your house or maybe a friend's or even a showroom in a store you'd consider buying your gear from, where you could actually test this. I.e. demo some clips or even full movies on a multi channel system, and repeat with the system set to the front three channels only for example.

See if you're actually missing out on anything tangible that is worth chasing.

Just to get a sort off "how much is this worth to me" impression which you can then hold up against the efforts required to get a good solution in your room.

I hope it makes sense, and please know I'm not trying to be negative about neither you or your room. Just trying to clarify a bit.

KR,
Nicolai

 

[Eppie]

Here is a drawing of my room basic layout

Most people are not going to want in-wall side surrounds in that room layout. Only place is between the french doors and nook on the right side and by the dining area on the left, which is a little far for proper balance. My recommendation remains the same. Either 3.1 or 5.1 with in-ceiling surrounds. Those open concept living/kitchen/dining rooms do not lend themselves to surround installations and ATMOS is best left for dedicated theatre spaces in rectangular rooms. Less is more in this case. 3 very good front speakers will do better than 7 average speakers spread all over that space, especially if you have plans for a dedicated gaming / TV room. It's your money in the end, but I don't think you will find anyone recommending a 7.1.2 setup in a space like that, except for a local installer looking to make a big sale.

 

[paulwgraber]

Totally get what you are saying. The speaker idea in the island is not a bad one. Just not very practical as Ill be ripping the kitchen apart soon enough. Some people in other groups mentioned just sticking to a 5.1 system and scraping atmos all together. IDK. Still sitting on it.

 

[paulwgraber]

So if I was to just stick with 5.1 which ultimately would make my life easier and cheaper, I suppose the Onkyo RZ50 would be way overkill then?

 

[Eppie]

ATMOS can be fun when set up properly but most people don't realize how critical speaker positioning is. There are specific heights and angles that Dolby recommends for ATMOS to work. You need to start with a proper 5 or 7 speaker bed layer at ear level and then add height or ceiling speakers for the overhead effects. As soon as you move the surrounds to the ceiling you loose the ability to create that sound bubble. There is much more content that goes to the side/rear surrounds than the ATMOS speakers and all of that content is going to come from the ceiling, which will overpower the ATMOS channels. The angled cathedral ceilings just add to the complexity.

The RZ50 is probably better suited to the gaming room, assuming you have a rectangular space that will accommodate a 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 setup. (11 channels if you add a 2-channel amplifier) Most AVRs in that class support additional zones, so you can send audio to a separate zone. That could be a couple of ceiling speakers in the kitchen, or another room or patio. You can make use of the extra channels that way. If this is strictly for the living area / great room then 5 or 7 channels of amplification will suffice and you can save some money. Getting an AVR with pre-amp outputs will add some flexibility.

 

[DIBstangguy]

I just upgraded my media room from 5.1.2 to 5.1.4. This required a AVR upgrade as well because the RX-A1070 Yamaha was not capable of 5.1.4 or higher in spite of having a Parasound A52+ Halo 5 channel amp for the base 5 speakers. Like you I was a Yamaha fan............that was until I was tantalized by the offer from my local guy (and personal friend for almost 15 years) to take home a Marantz Cinema 50 (same price as the RX-A6A retail) and kick the tires on it. So I did. HOLY CRAP! Granted I was now running 5.1.4 a huge improvement, but the warmth of the Cinema 50 in spite of having less wattage than the Yamaha blew it out of the water. To be sure I went to a large chain local who sells Marantz and Denon and did a compare between the Cinema 50 and Denon's step up X4800H and in spite of more horse power for the same price and being made by the same company as Marantz, the Cinema 50 killed it. So I am sold on Marantz now. Love the sound, the processing, the calibration of Audessy, everything. I checked the speaker levels after the initial calibration on the Cinema 50 and they were all within 1 DB of dead nuts. The Yamaha after calibration was way off on distances AND levels as much as 4 DB but sounded good after I diealed them in. THe Marantz system required no touchup.

After rambling I suggest you consider buying as big as you will need to save money down the road when you move that system to the new game room. Then you will want a full atmos surround setup and may find yourself as I did, short several channels. Give Marantz a listen. I was sold after the fact....and got $300 off of the retail price making hte unit less than the RX-A6A in the end.

Good luck.

 

[paulwgraber]

Havent even considered Marantz. Great advice but now I will check some reviews on it.

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW Denon and Marantz are from the same company (currently owned by Masimo) and share most features. Denon tends to be priced better. Choose on connectivity and feature set you want is generally a good plan. Try using zkelectronics.com to detail the differences/similarities.