ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
Yes, you would need to abandon the RPTV. You either have to increase your budget or change your thinking to do this correctly.

It is difficult to say what speakers to get. Sound is subjective and you may not like what I like. If this is mainly for movies, I would consider an ID brand like AV123 or SVS.

We have to really watch your speaker budget because your room is going to need a good sub.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The installer was accurate with his statement, which reflects what I've been saying here. Your room needs a bit more budget than you have, but you can still do a fair bit with $5,000. Since you have gear, you shouldn't be investing in more gear which is so-so, but should be looking towards gear which is very good. Within your budget, you will not be able to buy it all at once, but since, I imagine, that you can come up with more money later on down the line, you can definitely go with SOME upgrades now, and do the rest later.

I would seriously consider ditching the RPTV unless this room is an all-purpose room in which you think you will use the RPTV a lot. Personally, I run a motorized screen and a 60" plasma in the same space. So, I can truly appreciate that it is worthwhile to have both.

On the other hand, I waited and invested in a $3,000 screen to compliment the room which I thought was appropriate. There are very good motorized, tab-tensioned screens for about $2,000 as I listed. Likewise, a very good 1080p projector can be had for under $2,500 - but that's almost all of your budget. If you go with a manual high power screen, about $300 or so for the screen. Which opens up $1,700 right now for a decent set of L&R mains, and a good receiver. Still, you might want to consider a good subwoofer. Then some upgrades down the road.

It's complete BS to think you have to do it all at once - likewise, it's wrong to over-set your expectations. You could do it all for $5,000, but you wouldn't really end up with more sound quality than you have right now, so I wouldn't recommend trying to do it 'all'. But, I would take that $5K and start investing it properly into the gear you need to get your system headed in the right direction.
 
P

PopDisplay

Junior Audioholic
OK- thanks.

This is what I plan to do:

Disconnect/move the RPTV.

Install a PJ and screen for $2500-$3000.

Use my Onkyo 605 (for now).

Use the existing Klipsch rear L & R in wall speakers.

Buy front L, R, and center speakers with a budget of $2000

If that $2000 can also get me side L & R speakers, so much the better.

If not, I will buy side L & R speakers at a later date, along with a better/bigger AVR.

So, that leaves me with a request for opinions on suitable speakers within this budget.

Thanks in advance,

Dave
 
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J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I've been telling folks I can built them an HT for $6k that will blow them away, better than anything they have ever seen for both video and audio, and this cost is with cabling, rack, and RF remote included.

However, the above was with the typical sized room in mind. In contrast to BMX's thoughts, however, I think you can do a lot better with dynamics and midbass than what you have, and it doesn't have to cost an insane amount. OTOH, he probably has specific video costs in mind when saying so, which would eat up the budget.

Without seeing a pic, I see nothing wrong with keeping the RPTV. Daytime viewing, background viewing, save on bulb costs. But, as mentioned, can't have the fixed screen. I don't think a manual pulldown HP is going to disappoint you, however. And its cheap.

$2k is plenty for good HT speakers, even all 5 of them. Its the sub that's the kicker in that space. Outside of making your own, you're going to want to spend at least 1k on it.


Speakers, OTOH, require a lot of research. Very particularly the various designs of horiz center speakers, if horiz design is necessitated. Research WTMW, coaxial, and the like....
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
There are any number of good L&R mains and centers you can get for around $1,500 and then use the balance for a subwoofer. About $500 per speaker + sub is a good area to be in for quality sound which you will not want to upgrade for years.

Something like...
http://www.axiomaudio.com/m60.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/vp150.html
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-765
A bit closer to $2,500 - but a projector and fixed screen will be under $2,500 as well.

You likely will get BETTER speaker recommendations from others at a value price than I can deliver since I don't follow audio/speakers as much as I follow projection/video. You may want to ask specifically for speakers within a budget in that section of the site.

Give your room size, and ask for a L&R main + center + subwoofer for $2K(ish).

Plan a couple hundred for cabling from www.monoprice.com - don't overpay for cables, it's pointless.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
Wow, that is a very nice room.

After seeing such a room, I have to agree that a drop down screen would look best. Maybe 'build in steps' is the way to go. Will you have more of a budget in the future that you can put towards this room? What is the most important to you, the video section or audio section.

I would hate to see you do this room the wrong way.
 
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P

PopDisplay

Junior Audioholic
I agree. This HT space ought to be done right; or as right as my current and future budgets will allow.

Given the room's proportions, the RPTV is far too small. Thus, I feel that video should come first. Since I already have the rear speakers, the KEF system with a decent sub, and a servicable Onkyo 605, I can get by with my current audio outfit.

The HT budget is only a temporary concern as it comes into play at the same time that I'm buying this house. In a few months, after all of the new home surprises are squelched, I'll be more comfortable with spending $ on the HT.

I am a little concerned as to where to place the left side speaker (once I go to 7.1). The windows are in the ideal location. But, that's a down the road problem...
 
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ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
I would get back on track with what BMX was saying early in the thread. Go with the Epson PJ and the Draper Premier Screen. I would then add two nice towers as you can afford it. You can use the "phantom" mode for a center and add a sub as soon as possible.

You cannot skimp on the sub, you must get one that will handle the volume of your room.
 
T

Tod

Audioholic
I went with a cheap manual screen when I got one because I had to compromise somewhere on cost, and that seemed like the place. I've had it for I think 3 years now and there's some slight waving (which has been there for at least 2 years and hasn't worsened), and have never been that disappointed in the picture at all. Certainly not $300 vs $2500 by any stretch.

I would buy an inexpensive screen for now, since it's the biggest way to save money with the least performance compromise (to me anyway), and much less of a loss to upgrade later. Here's a selection of manual screens across a wide range of prices - you could basically pick your price point and that's your compromise.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/4577/Manual_Wall_and_Ceiling_Screens.html

Still...unless video means a lot more to you than sound, the lower-priced ones are entirely adequate and the waving isn't that bad. I'll bet you could modify the screen carriage a bit to give more center support which should minimize that.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I agree. This HT space ought to be done right; or as right as my current and future budgets will allow.
Hm. I'd love to see you step up from a LCD pj. Can't do it with the budget though. Not everything at once, that's for darned sure.

Given the room's proportions, the RPTV is far too small. Thus, I feel that video should come first. Since I already have the rear speakers, the KEF system with a decent sub, and a servicable Onkyo 605, I can get by with my current audio outfit.
After seeing the pics, I'd agree. That very wide front wall, with normal height, just screams CIH to me. Problems are that anamorphics setups will blow your budget sky high, and if using the zoom method, you will need/want a very dark front wall, and probably ceiling too.

Which leads me to the pretty cabinetry. IF you are willing to let hide the cabinetry, a false wall would be pretty sweet there. No light reflections off of speakers, and you'd have the dark front wall to easily allow zoom method for CIH. Your 16:9 would be smaller than the wider ARs, but still a lot bigger than that RPTV!

The HT budget is only a temporary concern as it comes into play at the same time that I'm buying this house. In a few months, after all of the new home surprises are squelched, I'll be more comfortable with spending $ on the HT.
This could be a pretty long process, depending. If you go to AVS dedicated build threads, some people take years, if only because its all DIY.

I am a little concerned as to where to place the left side speaker (once I go to 7.1). The windows are in the ideal location. But, that's a down the road problem...
TRUST ME in that you need to focus on something much more important. YES, I know the idea of surround sound is really cool. However, you REALLY need to research/understand the importance of the front sound stage. The importance of the front stage is SOOOO much greater, IMO.

I would get back on track with what BMX was saying early in the thread. Go with the Epson PJ and the Draper Premier Screen. I would then add two nice towers as you can afford it. You can use the "phantom" mode for a center and add a sub as soon as possible.
My vote is for LCoS pj if only for the greater fill ratio. Of course, I've got a pretty big 2.40:1 screen in mind! :D If going phantom, you still have to consider the placement of the center when installing the display.

You cannot skimp on the sub, you must get one that will handle the volume of your room.
This seems to be the one point that we all agree on.

I went with a cheap manual screen when I got one because I had to compromise somewhere on cost, and that seemed like the place. I've had it for I think 3 years now and there's some slight waving (which has been there for at least 2 years and hasn't worsened), and have never been that disappointed in the picture at all. Certainly not $300 vs $2500 by any stretch.
Again, to repeatedly put my plug in, check out DaLite High Power. "Disappears", no hotspotting, very stiff and resistant to waves, extremely affordable. Cons: narrower viewing cone (I don't see a big problem in that room, cannot be AT). Again, I will vote either HP or AT. But, AT will increase costs for sure if micro perf or weave. Great audio though! Remember the soundstage I was referring to?....

I would buy an inexpensive screen for now, since it's the biggest way to save money with the least performance compromise (to me anyway), and much less of a loss to upgrade later. Here's a selection of manual screens across a wide range of prices - you could basically pick your price point and that's your compromise.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/4577/Manual_Wall_and_Ceiling_Screens.html

Still...unless video means a lot more to you than sound, the lower-priced ones are entirely adequate and the waving isn't that bad. I'll bet you could modify the screen carriage a bit to give more center support which should minimize that.
+1. Some mftrs will allow a heavy bar to pull down on the display. HPs don't have that, as they feel its unnecessary. The material itself is already heavy. It took 3 people to mount mine.
 
P

PopDisplay

Junior Audioholic
What are your thoughts on this speaker system?

AV123 Rocket Package 4:

RS 850, RS 450, RSC 200, and MFW-15 Satin Black with a free X-Head

$2,200 plus freight
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
It would be good.

I have heard a lot of talk about AV123 products being on backorder and people getting their gear many months after ordering it so research hard before you buy them.
What are your thoughts on this speaker system?

AV123 Rocket Package 4:

RS 850, RS 450, RSC 200, and MFW-15 Satin Black with a free X-Head

$2,200 plus freight
 
P

PopDisplay

Junior Audioholic
While I am a bit concerned about my backorder status (I placed the order a few min ago, just to lock in the price), I am more concerned about the lacking customer support afforded by the AV123 sales department. I called twice so far (this week) to speak with cust svc; each time I was put into voice mail. So far, no call back.

If this is typical of their level of professionalism and product/customer support, I will soon cancel my order and give my business to another speaker manufacturer.


Insofar as the backorder is concerned, the timing should work out well as it will be 2 more weeks until we close on the new house and then a few more weeks until the HT is equipped with the new video equip.

With regard to my original goal of a $5000 HT, for sure I will be over that price. Considering the equipment on order, I am comfortable with the cost.


$2500 The Rocket system, RS 850, RS 450, RSC 200, and MFW-15, including freight
$2500 Panasonic PT-AE3000U PJ
$800 Screen (model TBD, ballpark price)
$700 AVR, model TBD, looking for suggestions
$300 Cables and misc hardware

I think this system will be more than enough to provide a nice cinematic and immersive experience.

Your thoughts?


Dave
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It would be good.

I have heard a lot of talk about AV123 products being on backorder and people getting their gear many months after ordering it so research hard before you buy them.
Any speakers will be great if you love the way they sound.

The only problem is when you don't like the way they sound.

I sure don't like that "Plus FREIGHT" stuff, do you?:D

Does Aperion charge Freight? I don't think so.

And if you don't like what you get, can you return them and get your money back, including the Freight charge?

I think Aperion gives you free shipping both ways - even when you return the speakers.

Otherwise, I would rather buy locally and return them for free if I don't like them.
 
P

PopDisplay

Junior Audioholic
With regard to Aperion, what do they offer at the same, delivered price of $2500?

The Rocket kit price is a bit less than 50% of the cumulative price of the stand alone components. I suspect this plays into the freight charge. I did ask via email if they will allow me to use my own freight company as I am afforded a substantial discount based on the volume I ship.

If AV123 declines to let me use my own carrier, it will prove that they are using the freight cost as a profit center. I consider such practice as deceptive. Sell your wares at a reasonable price and allow your customers the option of determining their own method of conveyance.



Thanks
 
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P

PopDisplay

Junior Audioholic
The shipping cost is a fixed $299, delivered to my nearest Yellow freight terminal. I would then have to go and p/u the components and bring to my HT.

If they provide delivery to my door, the total charge is $420.
 
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