HT for $5000

[PopDisplay]

I'm moving to a new home that has a home theater space already set aside measuring 17 x 33. The room is already finished. Each wall is accessible from the opposite side to make running wires a non issue. Seating will be in the middle 3rd of the space.

I have $5000 to spend on a projection system and audio system.

This year I bought the following components for my current home's theater. Are any of these components suitable for the new system/space?

Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver
KEF 2005.2 speaker system

Please post suggestions for A/V components to outfit this space.

TIA,

Dave

 

[Davemcc]

I hate to say it, but a really good projector and screen will probably eat up most of a $5K budget. I honestly don't know much about specific projector models and pricing, but I'll give the thread a bump for those who do.

 

[EJ1]

For the projector, I'd look at a used JVC DLA-RS1 or a new Epson HC1080UB. For a screen, I'd recommend Carada but others have used Da-Lite with good results. Go to www.svsound.com to look at subwoofers that will fit your application.

 

[jostenmeat]

measuring 17 x 33. . .

This year I bought the following components for my current home's theater. Are any of these components suitable for the new system/space?

Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver
KEF 2005.2 speaker system

For ME, I highly doubt that audio combo would cut it for the volumes I obtain. Power handling issues with dynamic peaks, etc.

Quality 1080p PJ prices have fallen off the cliff, IMO.

Check out Projector People for their current sale. Use coupon code THANKYOU and check out the Pana 3000 for 2.3k. A dalite HP screen like I use is extremely affordable. IIRC, a 100-120" is around $300ish I believe. So 2.6k, and BOOM, movie theater!

I do use a JVC RS1 that EJ1 refers to. Your jaw will hit the floor. I'd take it over the Pana, but you might prefer new, as well as having the incredibly cool programmable focus/zoom presets of the Pana 3000 for doing CIH (constant image height).

You will really need to read up in projector forums, or even the PJ subforum here for starters.

Back to audio: is the stuff still brand new, unopened; can you sell it off? For if you do the $2.6k above for the video, you got another 2.4k for audio. That will get some nice stuff that can handle more power...

 

[AVRat]

Is this room HT DEDICATED, or is there more going on? Will the screen be located on the 17’ wall? Ceiling height? Others provided good suggestions for projector/screen. You’ll definitely want to upgrade the Onkyo/Kef system, but I’d start with it and do the upgrade in steps. I’d start with the sub with some of the $5K. AV123 MFW-15 SUB for $499 until 12/08, purchase two for your large room. Then if the budget allows you could add Ascend Acoustics CMT-340s x3 w/stands up front for under $900

 

[PopDisplay]

The room is dedicated to HT. I want to install an automatic screen that will drop from a 9' ceiling on the 17' wall.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would likely go with the Epson 1080UB which comes in under $2,500 and if you intend to put seating in the room at about 15' then about a 10' WIDE 16:9 screen seems appropriate.

http://www.visualapex.com/Epson/projector-specifications.asp?for-the=Home-Cinema-1080UB

Carada Brilliant White for that...
http://www.carada.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=PROJECTION-SCREEN-H134C

About $1,100 for that.

That's a solid $2,500 gone for projection and screen, leaving the rest for HT upgrades and for cabling.

Cabling should come in under a couple hundred (www.monoprice.com) and I might drop $1,000 on a good subwoofer and the balance on some decent front main speakers, and maybe a good center channel.

This is all assuming you intend to do 100% of the work yourself.

 

[PopDisplay]

The Carada screen is not retractable. Any other suggestions? Do you suggest that I use my current AVR?

 

[BMXTRIX]

The Carada screen is not retractable. Any other suggestions? Do you suggest that I use my current AVR?

If you NEED a retractable screen, then it really needs to be tab-tensioned (not just tensioned!) and that will run upwards of $1,500 or more rather easily for a decent size from a halfway reliable manufacturer (DaLite/Draper/Stewart). If you don't care about waves in the screen - or in your image, then go with a cheap manual roll up screen. The difference between cheap manual and motorized is zilch. You get waves in the material within a year or two and have to replace the screen.

It is far better, and overall could be cheaper, to install a fixed screen, and if it gets damaged in a year or two, just replace the screen material instead of the frame...

Yet, if you must go motorized, budget that $1,500 for a motorized, tab-tensioned screen...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/155935-REG/Draper_101185_Premier_Motorized_Projection_Screen.html

That's about $1,700 shipped, plus the $2,500 for the projector.

It gives you a projector and screen which you will be extremely happy with for years to come and won't short change your setup in any way, but will leave you very limited on additional changes.

 

[PopDisplay]

I need a retractable screen as the current HDTV will remain in place for informal viewing. The screen needs to drop down in front of the HDTV

 

[PopDisplay]

As I mentioned, the house I'm buying has a pretty substantial dedicated HT @ approx 17 x 28. It was constructed 4 years ago and currently has a 52" Mitsubishi 1080 HDTV and rear in-wall speakers. All other electronics and speakers were removed by the former owner. I'm sure they left the in-walls behind so as to avoid wall repairs.

I'll have access to the house on Wednesday. I'll then take a closer look at the room construction and the brand/model of the in wall speakers. I suspect they're nothing special (since they're in-wall). I'll also be surprised if I find any acoustic insulation. I did notice that they installed fiberglass insulation on the two walls that have unheated space on the opposite sides. I plan on insulating the 3rd (long) wall, even though the opposite side IS heated space. The rear wall contains a pair of 36" poclet doors and is, i'm sure, uninsulated beyond the margins of the pockets.

My plan is to leave the TV in place for informal use. I want to install a drop down screen, PJ, and audio for $5000.

The viewing wall is outfitted with a number of custom cabinets and drawers. Further, it was built approx 30" away from the exterior wall of the house so as to create a connections "room".

My Onkyo 605 has only 1 HDMI out. For the system I described above, I'll need 2 HDMI outs, right?

I'm by no means a AV junkie. So, an AVR should do the trick. The Onkyo 605 has done everything I needed in my current (modest) HT.

ASAP, I will post photos and a diagram of the HT space.

I am concerned about 3 issues:

The bottom edge of the HDTV's screen is approx 30" off the floor. How will I place the center speaker without blocking the view of the screen?

Because I will maintain the HDTV, I need to install a retractable screen. How soon until it becomes wavey?

I don't anticipate using the inwall speakers. Should I remove them and repair the drywall (or cover with art)? They have nice looking grills and don't need to be removed.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[PopDisplay]

I was able to take a closer look at the HT space. On the rear wall, at approx 80" high, are 3 Klipsch R-3650-W in wall speakers. The L&R (grills) are positioned directly against the side walls. The center speaker is centered over the dual sliding doors.

Do you think I should incorporate these into the HT's audio system? As the grills look good, there's no problem with leaving them installed and disconnected.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks PopDisplay, for fulfilling my request to continue via thread, instead of PM. I'm sure you don't mind if I paste a part of my response here, so that others may piggy-back, criticize, and/or add other salient points.

1. Sound isolation can be welcome for certain setups, but please note this is a very, very different thing than acoustically treating a room for unwanted reflections.

2. Your room is huge. The 605, while an excellent value, would not have a snowball's chance in hell in my own setup. When the display gets larger, the volumes go up accordingly. I know that sounds weird, but when you have a 50-75 sq ft display, your instincts will be to have volume to match. Then again, the need for power will depend on:

- volumes desired
- speakers' sensitivity, nom impedance, min impedance
- distance seated from speakers (SPL decreases EXPONENTIALLY with distance)

3. The RPTV's constraint on the center placement is something you just will have to live with. The important thing is to understand the compromises, and then reduce the number of them. Almost nobody can succeed with a "perfect" setup. I also a horiz MTM way too close to floor, but I placed it on a nice acoustical panel to help out a bit. Do I suffer quite a bit still? Yes. Did it help? Yes.

4. According to BMXTRIX, the screen will be wavy in about a year. However, if it works for you, the High Power screens such as made by DaLite are much stiffer and more resistant to waving. And even with waves, they disappear much better than with others. I use a 159" pull down manual HP dalite.

 

[BMXTRIX]

4. According to BMXTRIX, the screen will be wavy in about a year. However, if it works for you, the High Power screens such as made by DaLite are much stiffer and more resistant to waving. And even with waves, they disappear much better than with others. I use a 159" pull down manual HP dalite.

Waves are a given, but if you need a retractable screen and are not willing to invest in a tab-tensioned screen at this time - which will never develop waves - then get a far less expensive manual screen. Not sure of the price of the DaLite High Power manual 159" screen, but at just a few hundred bucks or so, it is the best alternative to doing it 'right'.

A receiver with dual HDMI outputs is likely not realistic, and certainly isn't necessary since you need the same source to both locations.

Instead use something like this...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011301&p_id=4921&seq=1&format=2

Take the output of your receiver to it, then to the two displays.

For audio, upgrades, there is no reason not to use the speakers which are built in. Have no doubts that for the money that is spent on floor standing speakers you often get better sound than in-walls, but that doesn't mean in-walls are inherently bad or of poor quality.

These speakers are from a reputable manufacturer and are of mid-level quality, which I would consider adequate for the room and the budget you have - especially as surrounds, though the configuration of the rear center channel is more of a 6.1 setup location vs. a 7.1 setup location. I would likely try to get the rear center channel moved over to a proper 7.1 location and add one more matching speaker, then invest more money into a good center, L&R main speakers.

For the center channel, you just need to mount it under the 52" display at a point where it isn't covered by the screen.

I am currently doing this in my home with a 106" screen and a 60" plasma with a DefTech Mythos 8 speaker located on the wall immediately below the plasma and the screen stopping right near the bottom edge of the plasma.

Had I to do again, I likely would lower the screen a bit.

 

[PopDisplay]

Thanks for your reply.

I could move the center rear speaker and add 1 more speaker to create a 7.1. But, is positioning 4 speakers on the same 17' wide rear wall going to provide proper separation?

Or, am I better off using the existing left and right rears and moving/adding 2 speakers to the side walls as left and right sides?

Does the 80" height of the rears pose any issues? If I add L&R sides, should they be positioned at the same height as the rears?

Lastly, please share your thoughts regarding an AVR and a Front R, L, and center speaker selection.

TIA,

Dave

 

[Merc1973]

WOW, thats gonna be one nice set up!

 

[BMXTRIX]

Thanks for your reply.

I could move the center rear speaker and add 1 more speaker to create a 7.1. But, is positioning 4 speakers on the same 17' wide rear wall going to provide proper separation?

Or, am I better off using the existing left and right rears and moving/adding 2 speakers to the side walls as left and right sides?

Does the 80" height of the rears pose any issues? If I add L&R sides, should they be positioned at the same height as the rears?

Lastly, please share your thoughts regarding an AVR and a Front R, L, and center speaker selection.

TIA,

Dave

I would recommend that you ditch and patch the center rear location and go to the sides for proper placement of the surround speakers. There is a good guide on speaker placement on the main Audioholics site which is worth a look at, and I think that while 80" may be a bit high, you can get away with it just fine for the back surrounds, but I would drop them a bit for the main surrounds, and go close to ear height for the front L&R mains.

For an AVR, I will defer to others. I often recommend the Denon lineup which includes their recent 2809 and 2309 receivers, but I think that there are many options out there for the money.

Likewise, speakers run the gammut with about 1,000 great options, and about a dozen bad options.

 

[PopDisplay]

Thanks for your responses.

I received a disquieting phone call today from an HT installer. After I told him about the room's specs and my budget, he told me to live with (just) the RPTV until I had at least $8,000 to $10,000 available to outfit the space.

He told me that my $5k budget would yield an unsatisfying theatrical experience in a room measuring 17 x 28.

He was totally against the idea of maintaining the RPTV as it made a retractable screen mandatory. He thought it much wiser to eliminate the RPTV and l use only the PJ. In this regard, perhaps he had a vaild point.

So, I put it to you wise a/v geeks. Am I wasting $5,000? Is my space too big to be properly outfitted on this budget? If so, what is a reasonable budget for a 17 x 28 HT?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I would tell the installer to take a hike, you don't need him.

Consider what the guys told you and go with a fixed screen.

Use your AVR for now and the inwall surrounds and lets concentrate on the front 3 speakers. You need something big and effcient.

The KEF 2005.2 will not cut it.

 

[PopDisplay]

Abandon the RPTV?

What do you suggest for the fronts?