Hsu discontinues all tube subs

[Peter Marcks]

Thank you for the kind words, anamorphic! We will try our best to be supportive on the forums moving forward.

Sincerely,

 

[Peter Marcks]

Dear Rock&Roll Ninja,

I forgot to respond to one of your comments:

Many HSU loyalists believe that internal amps compromise the physics of a cylinder. This is why many of them don't cross-shop with "the other company".

In an interview done many years ago, someone asked Dr. Hsu--who is a PhD level civil engineer--if he had any plans to release a powered cylinder. His response was as follows:

The purpose of going to the cylindrical shape is to minimize wall flexure. By cutting into the round surface to accomodate the amplifier defeats the purpose of going cylindrical. We have no plans to do that

Ultimately, this boils down to a very good comprehension of the fundamentals of physics. Just as Dr. Hsu does not fancy the idea of a powered cylinder, he also does not like the idea of using a very small subwoofer enclosure to generate low bass, since this is generally not an efficient and cost-effective way towards achieving very clean and loud low bass. Powered cylinders and very small subwoofers are popular and sell well and are practical for many, yet Dr. Hsu believes strongly enough in his own design principles that he will not focus his efforts on such designs, even if he loses profits in the process. His goal is to constantly provide more bass for less money, period.

Last of all, it is true that there are other cylinder subwoofers available that come packaged with external amps. However, our cylinders came with purpose-built external amps that were specifically customized and tailored for use with our subwoofers. Our amps include such features as custom equalization curves, subsonic filtering, soft clipping, etc.

Have a great night!

 

[Tex-amp]

I have a hard time believing that.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5298152#post5298152

 

[anamorphic96]

Like his comment has any credibility.

 

[silversurfer]

Like his comment has any credibility.

Well...Ron Stimpson didn't deny it, and I know of at least one credible person that has a copy of the threat who also posted in that thread. It has also been posted that something similar happenned just a week or so before with another forum member.

If you look at the follow on posts, nobodyelse seems to question cschang's credibility. He seems to be one of the more straight forward people on that board.

Why don't you PM cschang and ask for a copy of it? Better yet, point him to this thread and stir things up again.....that would be entertaining.

It amazes me how people close their eyes to certain situations. If you can play middle of the road, it is pretty easy to see.....and in this case you can get verification if you choose to truely be unbiased and find out for yourself.

 

[shokhead]

I heard and somebody told me is all BS. All this,somwhere is SVS vs HSU. Man,this is old.

 

[silversurfer]

Agreed....definitely getting old. One side says BS, the other has the PM, and no one is denying it happenned. My best guess, someone definitely made a stupid move.

And if you read HTF, it isn't just SVS vs Hsu. Craig Chase had to remove some of his posts comparing a SVS sub(I forget which one) to the ACI Maestro.

Definitely comical. Everybody calling everybodyelse biased. One thing, it is entertaining.

It isn't just a clash of products, it is a clash of completely different company philosophies and backgrounds.

Just goes to show you, listening for yourself is the best alternative.

 

[shokhead]

Nobody says{and shouldnt] that one of them makes crap. They both make killer subs and owners like and suggest what they have because rather its one or the other,they both make rock solid subs.

 

[Tex-amp]

And if you read HTF, it isn't just SVS vs Hsu. Craig Chase had to remove some of his posts comparing a SVS sub(I forget which one) to the ACI Maestro.

You are correct. Craig did remove his SVS v. ACI comparision on HTF under pressure from SVS.

It is extremely rare to find someone that has listened to both SVS and Hsu to actually hear the differences in how they sound. I think this is true for many consumer direct speaker companies. If you don't hear Aperion, Ascend, Axiom, Rockets, etc. against anything else how do you know how they compare to each other?

 

[silversurfer]

Nobody says{and shouldnt] that one of them makes crap. They both make killer subs and owners like and suggest what they have because rather its one or the other,they both make rock solid subs.

I agree 100%. The real difference is how each company markets thier products and how they portray themselves to the consumer. Use yourself as an example; why did you go with SVS over Hsu? Hsu is in SoCal, as are you. Are you close to them? Were you able to compare?

You are correct. Craig did remove his SVS v. ACI comparision on HTF under pressure from SVS.

It is extremely rare to find someone that has listened to both SVS and Hsu to actually hear the differences in how they sound. I think this is true for many consumer direct speaker companies. If you don't hear Aperion, Ascend, Axiom, Rockets, etc. against anything else how do you know how they compare to each other?

Tex, I agree 100% with you as well. Taking the time to listen and disregard numbers is an eye/ear opener.

The sad part is, there are now even reviewers that are suspect. I just read a thread on AVS where a reviewer, Ed Mullen, who some have called biased in the past, help another gentleman that purchased a PB10-ISD for 2 or 3 pages. I don't want to think that he is biased, but I do not ever recall him helping out an owner of another brand that way. He is obviously very knowledgeable, I would like to see him offer that kind of help to everyone, not just a SVS owner, it would enhance his credibility even more in my eyes. Right now, you have to at least wonder if he even has unknown biases even to himself.

Anyways, this thread has kind of derailed. The TN1220 was a fabulous sub(yes, I have heard one a couple of years ago). Sad to see it go, but if something better is around the corner, all I can say is "bring it on!".

 

[Tdekany]

I have a hard time believing that.

do you want to see it?

 

[anamorphic96]

Even if there is some credibility to the letter SVS sent. They could not take action for someones opinions on something. Its a scare tactic. Why would a company waste the money. If anything, this hurts SVS more than it does good. If it got out on the boards that SVS sued someone for their opinions chances are they would be doomed.

Would you buy something from someone who would sue you if you expressed a negative even nasty opinion ?

 

[Rob Babcock]

Peter Marcks obviously has the patience of a saint, 'cause he's had to listen to my bellyaching for days over at the Hsu forum! No, I certainly don't use the amps of my receiver. I used to have a pair of Hsu 500 Watt amps running my pair of TN-1220's, but in the end it was more efficient to go with a 400 WPC stereo amp and the external EQ box, fed by my Behringer DSP-1124.

I'm obviously biased, but Hsu and his company reps have been pretty classy with regards to The Company That Must Not Be Named! It's us "fanboys" that cause most of the problems.

As for the amp in the box, my objection to that is that I simply don't feel that's a good environment for an amp. It subjected to a lot of vibration and heat within a closed air space. Yeah, I know the amps are well made, and being digital they should run cool. Yet the warranty is still 7 years on the driver and 2 on the electronics...I've never had any external amp crap out on me in less than a decade. Not that it'll never happen, it just hasn't yet.

I love the cylinder form, and I've come to believe it has a lot of advantages over a box. More even than that, I simply prefer the flexibility and durability of running my subs of an external amp. I don't plan to ever use a powered sub again, at least not in my Big Rig. It would be fine in my 2nd rig, where it doesn't get used as much nor get played very loudly.

Peter made the tantelizing suggestion that perhaps a passive version of the VTF-HO 3 could be made. If so, I'll retract 90% of my ranting (I still dig the tube...). I'd be very interested if that gets the green light.

Overall I guess I'll get over it. I guess mostly I just wanted to complain a little more first!

 

[shokhead]

I agree 100%. The real difference is how each company markets thier products and how they portray themselves to the consumer. Use yourself as an example; why did you go with SVS over Hsu? Hsu is in SoCal, as are you. Are you close to them? Were you able to compare?


Tex, I agree 100% with you as well. Taking the time to listen and disregard numbers is an eye/ear opener.

The sad part is, there are now even reviewers that are suspect. I just read a thread on AVS where a reviewer, Ed Mullen, who some have called biased in the past, help another gentleman that purchased a PB10-ISD for 2 or 3 pages. I don't want to think that he is biased, but I do not ever recall him helping out an owner of another brand that way. He is obviously very knowledgeable, I would like to see him offer that kind of help to everyone, not just a SVS owner, it would enhance his credibility even more in my eyes. Right now, you have to at least wonder if he even has unknown biases even to himself.

Anyways, this thread has kind of derailed. The TN1220 was a fabulous sub(yes, I have heard one a couple of years ago). Sad to see it go, but if something better is around the corner, all I can say is "bring it on!".

Why i got SVS? First i had no idea where either was made,didnt matter. I saw many,many more svs owners and i heard more positive things about svs and they had the cylinder that i wanted. I checked HSU but there wasnt a cylinder in there lineup that suited me.

 

[silversurfer]

Even if there is some credibility to the letter SVS sent. They could not take action for someones opinions on something. Its a scare tactic. Why would a company waste the money. If anything, this hurts SVS more than it does good. If it got out on the boards that SVS sued someone for their opinions chances are they would be doomed.

Would you buy something from someone who would sue you if you expressed a negative even nasty opinion ?

Exactly on all points!

I PM'd cschang over there, and he forwarded a copy of the PM to me. Let me put it this way, he is doing SVS a favor by not posting it in a public forum.

 

[silversurfer]

Why i got SVS? First i had no idea where either was made,didnt matter. I saw many,many more svs owners and i heard more positive things about svs and they had the cylinder that i wanted. I checked HSU but there wasnt a cylinder in there lineup that suited me.

OK, that is good. So you did not go on personal experience, and you do not know how a Hsu sounds compared to the only SVS you have heard.

In your case, you seem pretty level headed and won't say one is better than the other.

 

[shokhead]

OK, that is good. So you did not go on personal experience, and you do not know how a Hsu sounds compared to the only SVS you have heard.

In your case, you seem pretty level headed and won't say one is better than the other.

I had never heard either one. I wanted a cylinder and SVS and HSU seemed to be good ones to choose from. HSU didnt quite have one that suited me and SVS did. From SVS owners on other forums all having good things to say i went with the one i got. I was going with the 25-31 but the 20-39 was B Stock at 50 bucks off so i went with that one. Its quite tall. LOL I checked classifieds and to show you how good both are,very,very few for sale and when one did go up,you had better be fast.

 

[anamorphic96]

The more I think about it, the more I would like to see the letter posted publicly. Might make them think twice about pulling **** like this. This sorta reminds me of the Bose vs Consumer Reports incident.

 

[silversurfer]

The more I think about it, the more I would like to see the letter posted publicly. Might make them think twice about pulling **** like this. This sorta reminds me of the Bose vs Consumer Reports incident.

It would interesting if that happenned. You should PM cschang and let your thoughts be known. I have a copy of it, but it isn't really up to me to give it out to anyone else. If it was a bluff, scare tactic, or nothing at all, it really does show the mentality behind it, and you can at least judge for yourself.

 

[silversurfer]

Interesting new development:
http://hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12457#post12457