How would you spend $7-10k on these three items....

S

stjoe

Enthusiast
Projector, screen and receiver (or separates). There will be other expense as my new construction moves along, but I need to get a handle on these three.

This will be a room within a room with a 15.5W by 21 or 22 ft long area. I believe I will devote 14x21 to the HT, and 7x21 to a raised area in back. I will have controlled lighting and black out windows and doors, but I will also want to watch TV and sports with the back zone of lights on.

Seating distance will be about 12-13 feet, throw distance wherever it needs to be. 7.2 surround. General TV 40%, Movies 30% Sports 20% Music/gaming 10%. Don't need 3d. Don't know enough to evaluate screen size ;). Receiver/separates need to be able to supply 2-3 zones and at least six additional speakers throughout house. Also will be piping sat TV to about seven televisions throughout house, but not final on how this is all going to work. I plan on using a Control4 system.

So......the original question, forget wiring/cabling and everything else, what projectors, screens, and AV receivers/separates should I consider at the top of the heap for that budget?
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Projector, screen and receiver (or separates). There will be other expense as my new construction moves along, but I need to get a handle on these three.

This will be a room within a room with a 15.5W by 21 or 22 ft long area. I believe I will devote 14x21 to the HT, and 7x21 to a raised area in back. I will have controlled lighting and black out windows and doors, but I will also want to watch TV and sports with the back zone of lights on.

Seating distance will be about 12-13 feet, throw distance wherever it needs to be. 7.2 surround. General TV 40%, Movies 30% Sports 20% Music/gaming 10%. Don't need 3d. Don't know enough to evaluate screen size ;). Receiver/separates need to be able to supply 2-3 zones and at least six additional speakers throughout house. Also will be piping sat TV to about seven televisions throughout house, but not final on how this is all going to work. I plan on using a Control4 system.

So......the original question, forget wiring/cabling and everything else, what projectors, screens, and AV receivers/separates should I consider at the top of the heap for that budget?
What screen width? Do you plan on lights on or off PJ viewing, or both?

Here are some budget stretcher questions:

How about a paint on screen like the Black Widow Combination from Hometheater Shack. It is proven hands down to perform.

Used or demo electronics. I just picked up a Denon 4308ci for ~$420 demo from BB (no remote but it can be controlled via a web browser or universal remote). It has all the bells and whistles (Audyssy EX, dual HDMI out, Ethernet, Wireless, all the current HD codecs, Upscaling etc) and it was a $2200MSRP (I believe) receiver just a few years ago.

My Adcom GFA-5503 (3 channel amp rated at 200wpc 8ohm / 350wpc 4ohm) was $400.

My paint on screen cost my $117 vs ~$800. BMXTRIX is the guy to ask about PJ's and screens.

There are a ton of quality 1080 PJ's in the $1500-$2000 range.

So with my approach this would leave you $3k on speakers. I would without hesitation use the Dayton e-series for your surrounds. even if this was 4 surrounds still leaves you with $2700 for L/C/R + Sub(s).

Polk has some new LSi's coming out which potential means you may (if their monitor series was any indication when that line was refreshed) be able to get some 9's or 15's or 25's at a great discount.
 
R

Rmassey

Audioholic Intern
Oh Boy, I love to spend other peoples money :)

If I was starting a new HT room with this budget for these three items, I'd take a look at these...

Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-37 7.1-Channel A/V Receiver - List price $2200

Projector: Sony VPL-VW70 Projector - List Price $5999

Screen: Can't help you much there as I use DoAble (DIY material for $15 @ Home Depot - only available west coast to Denver) At your viewing distance I'd go with at least 100". I currently sit 12ish ft and have 100". Look at Elite Screens for value.

street prices vary, 20-30% discounts are not uncommon.
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
What screen width? Do you plan on lights on or off PJ viewing, or both?

Here are some budget stretcher questions:

How about a paint on screen like the Black Widow Combination from Hometheater Shack. It is proven hands down to perform.

Used or demo electronics. I just picked up a Denon 4308ci for ~$420 demo from BB (no remote but it can be controlled via a web browser or universal remote). It has all the bells and whistles (Audyssy EX, dual HDMI out, Ethernet, Wireless, all the current HD codecs, Upscaling etc) and it was a $2200MSRP (I believe) receiver just a few years ago.

My Adcom GFA-5503 (3 channel amp rated at 200wpc 8ohm / 350wpc 4ohm) was $400.

My paint on screen cost my $117 vs ~$800. BMXTRIX is the guy to ask about PJ's and screens.

There are a ton of quality 1080 PJ's in the $1500-$2000 range.

So with my approach this would leave you $3k on speakers. I would without hesitation use the Dayton e-series for your surrounds. even if this was 4 surrounds still leaves you with $2700 for L/C/R + Sub(s).

Polk has some new LSi's coming out which potential means you may (if their monitor series was any indication when that line was refreshed) be able to get some 9's or 15's or 25's at a great discount.
This is a great post with a wealth of good info. A great place to start anyway.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Well, if it's ME, I know what I would do.

PJ = JVC. Whatever you can afford, whether new HD250 or used RS 10/15/20/25/35 on the "lower" end, up to the nicest models they carry. I can see an HD250 with outboard CMS being a great combo that would easily fall into about 33-40% of the allocated budget.

I think the biggest bang for the buck will be a used RS20, out of the used ideas above. HD250 would be new, but no CMS.

Screen, well I just put up a Seymour CenterStage XD screen, DIY. First impressions = fantastic. The fabric for my 126", including all of the maximum excess so that I can maximize the weave's tilt was only $240. Acoustically transparent, the best type as with micro weave (the only better ones have weaves that are even tinier, but $$$$$), and one of the most color accurate materials there are, besting many other well known types or brands in this regard including Dalite and Carada.

I'd buy a receiver, and actually use it as a separate. I'd probably get the Denon 4311 if I had to choose one this very second without too much research, and add amp of choice. Probably just a 3ch amp, or maybe 5ch. I could run all of the various surrounds with the receiver perhaps. Dunno.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Please note that I didn't come close to the OP's $7-10K budget. IMO outside of the PJ there is no real need to.

I would rather take $2k and get something like the 4308ci and even new external amplification (Emotiva, Parasound, Adcom) and come out to $2k than blow that on a receiver (which is easy to do) and still tack on an external amp. Just too much diminishing returns.

The PJ is where I would splurge if that was my inclination. Good suggestion on getting a used or closeout RS 20 if you can lay hands on one. Also good suggestion on the cloth screen if you don't want to do a paint application. Though I LOVE my paint on screen.
 
S

stjoe

Enthusiast
Looks like I need to do some more research....

Now you guys have me thinking I could save some coin. I didn't want to influence any ideas, but here was what I was thinking, bearing in mind that this will be my first venture into the projector and "rest of house" distribution. I have never spent this kind of money before.

I was thinking JVC HD250 at that price point ($3k). I was thinking Carada screen, for maybe $1k or so. That leaves me with $4-$6k for separates. I was trying to get into Anthem/NAD, but I may not have enough $$. I have not looked at the new Anthem receivers, but I will finally be retiring my Denon 3805.

I was sure that I would need a motorized screen (2 year old twins), but if I can have a quality fixed screen for the money suggested above, I'll check it out.

One big thing is where should I put the bulk of the $$. My first impulse is to go heavy on the projector, but I'm thinking that the screen and receiver will outlive it, so maybe go big there.

Let me go research some of your ideas. Thanks, and keep em coming!
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Projector, screen and receiver (or separates). There will be other expense as my new construction moves along, but I need to get a handle on these three.

This will be a room within a room with a 15.5W by 21 or 22 ft long area. I believe I will devote 14x21 to the HT, and 7x21 to a raised area in back. I will have controlled lighting and black out windows and doors, but I will also want to watch TV and sports with the back zone of lights on.

Seating distance will be about 12-13 feet, throw distance wherever it needs to be. 7.2 surround. General TV 40%, Movies 30% Sports 20% Music/gaming 10%. Don't need 3d. Don't know enough to evaluate screen size ;). Receiver/separates need to be able to supply 2-3 zones and at least six additional speakers throughout house. Also will be piping sat TV to about seven televisions throughout house, but not final on how this is all going to work. I plan on using a Control4 system.

So......the original question, forget wiring/cabling and everything else, what projectors, screens, and AV receivers/separates should I consider at the top of the heap for that budget?
Projector: JVC(best brand in the price range)
Screen: Carada(Great screens)
Receiver: Onkyo or Denon(Don't spend too much on this). for 4-6k I'm thinking you might upgrade something else(What speakers do we have?).
You can go pro for amps or consumer. If you go pro hit up Yamaha's.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Projector, screen and receiver (or separates). There will be other expense as my new construction moves along, but I need to get a handle on these three.
Projector: JVC HD250 or RS40. The RS40 is about to come to market and is one of the new 3D capable models. I might wait for the first review to see if it is better than the HD250, but realistically, JVC has simply put out more reliable and better overall product than about anyone else. Most notably, Sony who is the other competitor with LCoS technology. The Epson and Panasonic models (8700UB, and AE4000 respectively) are very good - but don't quite measure up.

Screen: If you actually have light control and do NOT want to go with making your own screen, then I do recommend the Carada Criterion in Brilliant White which is simply the best screen I've ever put together, except for Stewart screens at 3+ times the cost. Do-it-yourself solutions can be excellent but typically have some significant drawbacks, mostly related to how much time you have to put into them. That is, you can spend 10 or more hours properly building a DIY screen with a nice black velvet frame and with perfectly smooth drywall, or a well supported frame... but that time may not be something you want to give up. Still, I've built a 100" screen before (about 10 hours!) and it turned out beautifully for under $200 total in materials.

Receiver: I'll leave this one alone except to say that the Emotiva products really peak my curiousity. Denon makes some fine gear (PM me if interested). The Emotiva stuff is the way things are going and the ability to go with a separate pre-pro and amplifiers allows you to really go where you want later down the road should you upgrade.

All of this will run well under $10,000 pretty easily, unless you have it professionally installed and add a GOOD universal remote to the mix. I always put Crestron remotes in with my client's stuff because they always work and never leave people confused. But, this would be up to you as to how easy you want it to work for everyone in your home.

This will be a room within a room with a 15.5W by 21 or 22 ft long area. I believe I will devote 14x21 to the HT, and 7x21 to a raised area in back. I will have controlled lighting and black out windows and doors, but I will also want to watch TV and sports with the back zone of lights on.
Zoning lighting is crazy important! Also - complete light control means dark walls, ceiling, and carpet. Don't just put shades up - you MUST have everything dark for best control

Which brings us BACK to lighting! There is no such thing as to many lights. If you want it dark, turn 1,000 lights off, and it is just as dark as turning off 2 lights. Turn those 2 lights on and you can't see a thing, turn the 1,000 lights on and it is like being outside - in the desert. I typically would recommend a light about every 5 feet across a ceiling. Broken into no less than 3 zones. The first zone for 'general' room lighting where people are not sitting. One zone over the first row of seating, one zone over the second row of seating.

GET A REMOTE CONTROLLED DIMMER! Lutron Grafik Eye is a great product for this.

Seating distance will be about 12-13 feet, throw distance wherever it needs to be. 7.2 surround. General TV 40%, Movies 30% Sports 20% Music/gaming 10%. Don't need 3d. Don't know enough to evaluate screen size ;).
Screen width generally is .66 times your viewing distance. So, from 12 feet an 8 foot wide screen is THX specifications, and that's a 110" diagonal.

Receiver/separates need to be able to supply 2-3 zones and at least six additional speakers throughout house.
This all starts getting cumbersome. A second zone of audio can provide multiple rooms with the same feed just fine. Another amplifier and a speaker selector and volume controls in each room can do this. But, how far you take it is up to you and can incredibly impact budget. Since I have HDTVs througout my home, I put all my gear in a rack in the basement and distribute HDTV everywhere. It is very time consuming, and very expensive, and I don't use speaker selectors or zone 2 on my receiver. I use matrix switches and multi-zone preamps. As I said, this can get pricey depending on how smooth you want it to run.

Also will be piping sat TV to about seven televisions throughout house, but not final on how this is all going to work. I plan on using a Control4 system.
Even on the cheap side, if you are piping HDTV throughout your home, it will be pricey. I typically use Crestron and am less familiar with Control4. Other than saying that I get most of my Crestron gear used, so it comes in at about half (or less) of what new gear would cost from them. It works out really nicely for most customers.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Now you guys have me thinking I could save some coin. I didn't want to influence any ideas, but here was what I was thinking, bearing in mind that this will be my first venture into the projector and "rest of house" distribution. I have never spent this kind of money before.

I was thinking JVC HD250 at that price point ($3k). I was thinking Carada screen, for maybe $1k or so. That leaves me with $4-$6k for separates. I was trying to get into Anthem/NAD, but I may not have enough $$. I have not looked at the new Anthem receivers, but I will finally be retiring my Denon 3805.

I was sure that I would need a motorized screen (2 year old twins), but if I can have a quality fixed screen for the money suggested above, I'll check it out.

One big thing is where should I put the bulk of the $$. My first impulse is to go heavy on the projector, but I'm thinking that the screen and receiver will outlive it, so maybe go big there.

Let me go research some of your ideas. Thanks, and keep em coming!
IMO, the places to go biggest are the devices that finally transform an electrical signal into the physical transmission that your human senses can finally perceive. The distortion and compromises in speakers, for instance, are much greater than you will find in electronics. IOW, the speakers and the display. For an HT-first system the rule of thumb goes something like this: Display, Display, Display. Room acoustics. Speakers. Amps. Sources.

The above said, Anthem and NAD make nice stuff, and they both have some of the nicer RC available, being ARC1 and Audyssey XT. You can search Warpdrv's thread on his Anthem as he posted some of his graphs. Yet, for how expensive this kind of unit kind be, I think you might* be shortchanging the speakers.

So, while every once in a while a person will think the screen should cost as much as the PJ at your rough budget, I do think most agree with me that it's the display. The screen is a passive device. And guess what, I changed my screen already, and I'm still on my first PJ. My screen material was just $240 as aforementioned (if I didn't care for tilt, I could have just bought 63" wide for more than a hundred dollars less too). Prebuilt is roughly 1.5k, and then add shipping. Anyways, my point is that I can't make a PJ, but I finally found a way to make a screen with friends' help.

Carada is a high value brand, and you won't go wrong with that choice. Even Seymour gives Carada a big thumbs up.

Motorized for you also means tab tensioned, which then means $$$$. Motorized will do nothing you for in terms of reliability or longevity. A manual will last just as long.

Hope that helps.

Receiver: I'll leave this one alone except to say that the Emotiva products really peak my curiousity. Denon makes some fine gear (PM me if interested). The Emotiva stuff is the way things are going and the ability to go with a separate pre-pro and amplifiers allows you to really go where you want later down the road should you upgrade.
PM sent. :p
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Projector, screen and receiver (or separates). There will be other expense as my new construction moves along, but I need to get a handle on these three.
Projector - I'd probably look into Panasonic's ~2500 offering
Screen - Acoustically transparent all the way. SeymourAV would be my choice.
Receiver/separates - Probably the new Anthem Prepro paired with an Emotiva XPA-2 and Emotiva XPA-5. My other choices for a pre would be the Marantz AV7005 and the Denon 4311 assuming you truly CAN turn the amps off.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Projector - I'd probably look into Panasonic's ~2500 offering
Even when the newer (by a year) and better tech of a JVC can be had for the same price now?

Screen - Acoustically transparent all the way. SeymourAV would be my choice.
:) That's what I use, but I should say that both Seymour and SMX have been making higher end weaves, but for a lot more money. The (Seymour) Screen Excellence cannot be sold as DIY, and I'm not sure about all of the reasons, but it has to do with making sure of the performance during install. Supposedly you can sit very close, maybe like 4', and still not notice any texture. Supermicro weave. Screen Excellenc is an ISF certified 4k screen material.

Receiver/separates - Probably the new Anthem Prepro paired with an Emotiva XPA-2 and Emotiva XPA-5. My other choices for a pre would be the Marantz AV7005 and the Denon 4311 assuming you truly CAN turn the amps off.
Anthem has a new prepro? Or do you mean the D2V that's been out for 4.5 years? I'm curious if there is indeed a new one! :) Not that I could possibly afford it.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I mentioned this in a PM to the OP, but if this is a custom installation, then you will have to add in whatever you are having them do, which will be $2,000+ in work at the very least for labor.

A new construction theater typically takes a minimum of 24 hours of labor between the screen, projector, cabling, rough-ins, build-outs, and programming if all done properly.

Add to that cabling for other rooms and the gear, which they will probably want/demand to sell you, and your price will go up significantly. This is important to know as installers who will work at a bargain price or will work with gear you buy can be incredibly difficult to find.

I know I'm doing a new install for a client and I'm walking away with very little cash - low profit job - with 6 zones of audio, and a complete house rough-in, with a surround zone and single flat panel display - it's running $12,000. No projector/screen, but a flat panel at about $2,500 or so. Probably 80 hours of labor will be required.
 
S

stjoe

Enthusiast
I'm doing a 1500sf 3 story addition to my house. I have a demanding job and two year old twins.....I have to have an installer. Plus the complexity of what I need and the experience of running wire into tight places is beyond my expertise.

I'm expecting the whole AV portion to cost me around 20k....equipment, wiring/cabling, control, home security. I have lighting separately in the construction budget.

It is going to be a wild ride. Hope to get drawings to the bank Tuesday. Should take a month for the loan approval, then 3 months for construction. That's the plan, anyway.

I really appreciate you guys helping me get up to speed.

Oh, somebody asked me about my speakers....I'm the guy who posted about the rude AV123 awakening the other day. I have the RS1000 fronts, and then the RS250's, the RSC200, and the RSS300's, plus two of their subs, never removed from their boxes.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Are we talking about RIGHT NOW or in a year?


Projector: I would wait to see if some more affordable LED 1080p projectors come out in the next 12 months.

I just bought a BenQ W6000 1080p DLP projector on amazon for ~ $2,100 plus the 4yr SquareTrade warranty for another $330.

I'm sure nothing under $10K will beat the JVCs in overall quality, but the JVCs will be a lot more expensive too.

Plus the BenQ is extremely bright with great looking blacks and colors. I have mine set to Economy mode, instead of the standard mode, and I think it looks as bright as the Optoma HD81-LV projector on a 120" widescreen.

If you need an extremely bright projector, I think BenQ may be a good alternative.

Some say BenQ had some reliability issues in the past, but mine is fine so far.:D

No matter which projector you buy, it is recommended to get an extended warranty.

Pre-pro/amp: Marantz AV7005 & matching amp?

Screen: can't go wrong with Carada fixed 16:9 screens.
 
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