How to tune my room

R

Reduff2288

Audioholic Intern
Can’t upload photo of room it is too large I know I have areas where the base boom and areas where certain bass is not as strong. Usually the listening are (couch). I don’t know if I need absorbing treatments or deflection. Not sure if I should tune my bass in with audio measuring tools. I really don’t know where to start. My sub has been on the left of the speakers and the now on the right. That really didn’t change much.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
To start:
How big is your room? L x W x H. We need to know room VOLUME pls. Also, is your listening room closed, or open to other rooms?
What equipment do you have? And specifically, what sub? How many? (Speakers, too.)
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
Just about any photo editing program and reduce your room picture to a size you can upload.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
R

Reduff2288

Audioholic Intern
To start:
How big is your room? L x W x H. We need to know room VOLUME pls. Also, is your listening room closed, or open to other rooms?
What equipment do you have? And specifically, what sub? How many? (Speakers, too.)
Yes, kinda figured you needed this info. I will measure and send measurements. I wanted to send pics but I need to make the file size smaller. I have divided my room in half. It is separated by room dividers. So my listening area is smaller than the rest of the room. Not sure what complications the deciders will add to the equation.
 
R

Reduff2288

Audioholic Intern
Just about any photo editing program and reduce your room picture to a size you can upload.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Yes, I know just didn’t have my pc handy last night. Doing it today and sending the pics.
 
R

Reduff2288

Audioholic Intern
As you can see I have seperated the room with the partition . One of my questions is do I mesure room starting at the partion? I am not sure how the room setup complicates room acustics. I will say I can change the setup. So I have to make the best of what I have at the moment.
Room-Pic1.jpg
Room-Pic2.jpg
Room-Pic3.jpg
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
For LF soundwaves, room dividers don’t exist. When you do, measure the whole room, not just your listening area, pls. :)
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
OK, so talk to us... what's going on? What is your equipment? What are you experiencing that makes you want to "fix" your room?
 
R

Reduff2288

Audioholic Intern
OK, so talk to us... what's going on? What is your equipment? What are you experiencing that makes you want to "fix" your room?
mostly bass issues. At my listening position I get some bass at certain frequency. If I stand to the far left of my room the bass is booming.

My Equipment is as follows. Setup is 5.1. I also want this to serve as a 2 ch music listening.

1. Denon avr-x1400h (i have an upgrade path to the Marantz AV7705 with A Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3 Amp. Want to take two of the channels and bi-amp the Motion 40's.
2.. Definitive Pro cinema 250 W 8" sub. (upgrade plan to Martin Logan Dynamo 700W Sub can be configured as front or downward firing.)
3. Martin Logan Motion 40's Main L and R

5. Definitive Pro Cinema 600 Center Chanel (upgrade plan to Martin Logan Motion 30 Center)
6. Still using Definitive Pro cinema 600 speakers for rear L and R. (no plan at the moment for upgrade.)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
How far back is the LP from the front wall? It looks like it’s in the center of the room. Can you move back any? That might help with the bass being sucked out. Also pretty sure that little 8” subs behavior isn’t helping. It likely has a bump in its native FR made worse by being put in the corner. I’ve had good luck with corner loading but only with linear subwoofers. Also, try lowering the XO a little(try that first since there’s no labor involved lol). I don’t know where it’s currently set, but if it’s higher, like 100hz, that sub is carrying a lot of signal. By lowering to say 60hz(seems those mains sound have trouble with that) it might call less attention to itself.
If you can, move the sub away from the corner and lower the xo and try and move the LP back a little.

The biggest problem is the room so the easiest way to deal with that(providing there’s enough space) is to move the locations of speakers, or listening position. Also, upgrading that sub will help a lot(although not sure I’d choose the dynamo first).

Also, wouldn’t bother to bi-amp those ML’s. It’ll just cost money for cables with no extra joy.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Ya, what he said... and then some! ;) Mind, I'm not an expert here, but I'll share what I can. :)

Room treatments are the last thing I would recommend doing in pursuit of good sound. And most will not help with your issue. Moreover, they are useless without proper measurement equipment and acoustic knowledge.

LF soundwaves are big long and unruly, and our rooms do nothing to help out. What you are describing is, I think, a prime example of standing waves. (If I am wrong, somebody please correct me!) This is where the soundwaves as they bounce around your room are meeting up and canceling at certain frequencies, and which can occur at specific places around any given room.
To combat this, the first thing Wiliam suggested, playing with your crossover, may help a little. I think you mains are rated at 40Hz: I would do 80 for them... 1 octave up. You can try 60, but I don't think they handle lows very well. 90-100Hz may work, too (if 90 is an option). As I tweaked mine, I settled on 80 for myself as I heard both better bass and highs. It was subtle, but an added clarity existed in the SQ.
More likely, though, is location. Times 2! First, your listening position. I can safely say you don't want to be in the middle of the room, front to back. Unless of course, it just works. (Which it can.) I know a lot of folk want you to sit in an equilateral triangle with you speakers. I think you should sit a little further back than the distance between each speaker: say 7' between, you could try 8-9' away from them. Again, that's just me. But also playing with you position in the location of your room. if your LP is in a null. Move it!
The only way you can change a frequency related standing wave is by moving the location of the sources within the room. If you pull your speakers forward 1', and spread them out a little, you may effect such a change. I get space there is tight... just using that as an example. but that does bring me to Location Pt 2:
MOVE YOUR SUB!
I personally think that front loading and corner loading does not result, necessarily, in the best sound. The best location for good sound is room dependent. If every room is different... then you can't just throw Baby in a corner and call it good. ;)
How do you find a good location for the sub? The Subwoofer Crawl. This technique is a little crude, to be fair, but it will do much to teach you about the way bass sounds and behaves in your room. You've already described uneven bass response. With one sub, you will always have that. But you can make it sound great at you LP by doing the crawl! While you are doing it... look for 2 or 3 places around your space where you get good bass response, and then when you add a second sub, you will know where to put it. :)
And that is how you start to even out bass in a room. You need multiple LF sources. The goal being to excite as many room modes as possible, which results in minimizing standing waves, bass nulls, etc. I am a fan of the Geddes approach to multiple subs: that you account for all LF sources, including full-range tower speakers, and you strategically and asymmetrically place subs around the room in order to achieve that goal.
The ultimate step would be measurements, but that will take time, equipment and skill. However, using your ears is free.
Now, William mentioned one more thing: your sub. I know that I've heard good things about the new ML Dynamo subs, though I have no experience with them. I'm not gonna tell you to guy buy a new sub, though it would help. If you choose to explore multiple subs, you want to have matching subs. :)
There's a lot here... but acoustics can be a huge can of worms. Experiment with placemnet of everything from your LP and speakers, to your sub! That is all free, and just takes time and patience. Most people can get a room dialed in reasonably well doing that. The next step would be a Umik and REW.

Hope this helps get you started!
 
B

bpape

Audioholic Chief
You will always have variations in bass response in pretty much any room. If you don't listen far off left, don't sweat it. Positioning of the listening seat is critical. If you are at 1/2 of the room length from the front wall to your head, you'll have wild swings in response. Ideally you would be between 33 and 38% of the room length to either the front or rear wall to minimize interacting with room modes. Start with that, then move speakers and sub(s) to smooth the response. Don't forget to reset the sub phase after moving things around too. Incorrect phase can really mess things up.
 
R

Reduff2288

Audioholic Intern
Thank everyone who replied to my question. I will live with the bass issue until I purchase a new sub. I did move my front left and right speakers out 2 feet. Moved the sub out of the corner. I then adjusted sound levels and re-ran the audyssey setup tool. Just moving the speaker out greatly enhanced my sound stage for two channel and 5.1 audio listening.

I know for you pros out there this is like no dah. I guess the magic of this hobby is finding out for yourself. I dont beleive I can tweak any further until i get the new sub. I go back and forth between the the Martin Logan Dynamo 700W and SVS PB1000. I hear good things about both. I have never listen to either unit. There are no dealers in my area that have these models on the showroom floor.

So if anyone wants to sugest a sub to add to my list let me know. I will need a sub for two channel and 5.1 Home theater listening. the sub will be for the room I listed above.
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
I have a dynamo and a SVS PB 13 ultra in my room and I’d recommend the ported SVS over the dynamo. I picked up the dynamo which is a compact sealed sub because the price was right and I had dead spots to fill. If there similar cost wise I’d definitely go with the SVS. The Martin Logan dynamo is a excellent small subwoofer but unless you’re getting a good deal like I did ... go with the SVS.

Just my 2c
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I own and know the quality of HSU and Rythmik but I know SVS is just as good but maybe just a few dollars more. :)
 
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