How to troubleshoot a flaky HDMI connection?

[Porschefan]

Hoping someone here can give me some pointers on fixing a problem.

Situation: AV receiver: Yamaha HTR-6160 (RX-V663 twin). 2-3 years old and has worked well in past, both HDMI inputs handled Dish receiver, Comcast cable box, PS3, LG BD player. Point is that both HDMI inputs functioned without a problem.

I recently bought a used Yamaha RX-V863 and hooked it up to my "main" system: Comcast cable box (Cisco), Philips TV, LG BD player. Works fine....just as the 6160 did.

Moved the 6160 to the bedroom and hooked up: Comcast cable box (Scientific Atlanta--supposedly identical to the Cisco), Roku box to an OLD Philps HDTV.

Problem: the Roku works fine plugged into EITHER of the 6160's HDMI inputs. The Comcast box WON'T sync up to the TV using either of the HDMI inputs.

Symptoms: when the Comcast box is plugged into either of the HDMI inputs and that input is selected on the 6160, the front display panel of the Yamaha blinks, flashes, like it's TRYING to connect. There are even occasional words/sounds from the speakers and/or a flash of a picture on the screen, but it just won't sync and hold.

This is complicated by the fact that until I introduced the 6160 into the picture, the Comcast box and old Philips work fine with a direct hookup. So until I get this solved I'm having to physically switch cables around to watch TV or the Roku--not an ideal scene ;-).

I could isolate things further by taking the Comcast (Cisco) box from the living room and trying it in the bedroom, but I'm hoping to avoid that mess if possible. I guess if the Cisco Comcast box worked then I would have some evidence that the Scientific Atalanta Cisco box wasn't up to snuff. As I mentioned, the Yamaha 6160 was working fine in the living room before. Is it possible that the TV (old, but with an HDMI connector) is borderline and can't sync with the box going through a receiver? But it works with the Roku????

I'm trying to get Comcast out here with another Cisco box, even though they say they are identical and just differently branded, but if you know anything about Comcast's customer service.....

So I thought I'd lay it out here in hopes that I might be overlooking something simple and before I have to unhook everything again and start moving components around.

TIA for any input.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hoping someone here can give me some pointers on fixing a problem.

Situation: AV receiver: Yamaha HTR-6160 (RX-V663 twin). 2-3 years old and has worked well in past, both HDMI inputs handled Dish receiver, Comcast cable box, PS3, LG BD player. Point is that both HDMI inputs functioned without a problem.

I recently bought a used Yamaha RX-V863 and hooked it up to my "main" system: Comcast cable box (Cisco), Philips TV, LG BD player. Works fine....just as the 6160 did.

Moved the 6160 to the bedroom and hooked up: Comcast cable box (Scientific Atlanta--supposedly identical to the Cisco), Roku box to an OLD Philps HDTV.

Problem: the Roku works fine plugged into EITHER of the 6160's HDMI inputs. The Comcast box WON'T sync up to the TV using either of the HDMI inputs.

Symptoms: when the Comcast box is plugged into either of the HDMI inputs and that input is selected on the 6160, the front display panel of the Yamaha blinks, flashes, like it's TRYING to connect. There are even occasional words/sounds from the speakers and/or a flash of a picture on the screen, but it just won't sync and hold.

This is complicated by the fact that until I introduced the 6160 into the picture, the Comcast box and old Philips work fine with a direct hookup. So until I get this solved I'm having to physically switch cables around to watch TV or the Roku--not an ideal scene ;-).

I could isolate things further by taking the Comcast (Cisco) box from the living room and trying it in the bedroom, but I'm hoping to avoid that mess if possible. I guess if the Cisco Comcast box worked then I would have some evidence that the Scientific Atalanta Cisco box wasn't up to snuff. As I mentioned, the Yamaha 6160 was working fine in the living room before. Is it possible that the TV (old, but with an HDMI connector) is borderline and can't sync with the box going through a receiver? But it works with the Roku????

I'm trying to get Comcast out here with another Cisco box, even though they say they are identical and just differently branded, but if you know anything about Comcast's customer service.....

So I thought I'd lay it out here in hopes that I might be overlooking something simple and before I have to unhook everything again and start moving components around.

TIA for any input.

Scientific Atlanta cable boxes are a known problem.

First do not keep plugging and unplugging HDMI cables. They are very fragile and you will damage a connector and then have a very expensive repair, as you will end up replacing an HDMI board.

The problem is that the cable box is not fully HDCP compliant.

It works when connected to the TV, as a TV is an end device and under HDCP regs is only required to make an initial handshake using the HDCP codes.

A receiver on the other hand accepts and outputs HDMI. A receiver is therefore required to make continuously repeated handshakes with any HDMI device connected to an input. This is called repeater architecture.

This repeater architecture is very complicated and a lot of firms have trouble getting it right.

Now there is a voluntary HDCP certification that any device should go through. However cable box and satellite box manufacturers are unwilling to pay the cost of certification, they just pay for an HDMI license only.

So we get the problem you are experiencing continually. Scientific American seem the most incapable of getting it right.

So you need to demand from Comcast a fully HDCP compliant device. If they refuse then your only option is to use Component video connections from that non compliant device.

I've lost count of how many times I've typed this message.

 

[Porschefan]

Scientific Atlanta cable boxes are a known problem.

First do not keep plugging and unplugging HDMI cables. They are very fragile and you will damage a connector and then have a very expensive repair, as you will end up replacing an HDMI board.

Thanks--good advice.

The problem is that the cable box is not fully HDCP compliant.

It works when connected to the TV, as a TV is an end device and under HDCP regs is only required to make an initial handshake using the HDCP codes.

A receiver on the other hand accepts and outputs HDMI. A receiver is therefore required to make continuously repeated handshakes with any HDMI device connected to an input. This is called repeater architecture.

This repeater architecture is very complicated and a lot of firms have trouble getting it right.

Now there is a voluntary HDCP certification that any device should go through. However cable box and satellite box manufacturers are unwilling to pay the cost of certification, they just pay for an HDMI license only.

So we get the problem you are experiencing continually. Scientific American seem the most incapable of getting it right.

So you need to demand from Comcast a fully HDCP compliant device. If they refuse then your only option is to use Component video connections from that non compliant device.

Aha...I suspected as much. I do have a "friend" in the Comcast bureacracy and I'll see what I can do. I've had some TERRIBLE experiences with Comcast (and Adelphia, Time-Warner and DISH network), and I wonder how they can continue to get away with this kind of thing.

But good news: for whatever reason, when I tried it again this morning IT WORKED....so knock on wood I'm safe for awhile.

I'm seriously considering building a HTPC box with the Ceton 4-channel cable card, but that's going to take some time, and to be frank, I'm not certain that it won't have its own set of problems. But I'm ready to do ANYTHING to be less dependent on Comcast.

I've lost count of how many times I've typed this message.

Well, thanks for doing it one more time...maybe they'll put up a sticky on this forum. Or at least you can save it and cut and paste when needed.

 

[jostenmeat]

Porschefan, get a Tivo box. You'll never go back. I haven't paid for programming in years, but my friend has got one. It's sweet.

If it lasts you a couple of years, you'll likely have paid it off, considering the savings on STB rental. Streams a bunch of things too.

Otherwise: simply use component connections from Cisco to TV. You lose nothing in terms of rez, or audio quality. Run SPDIF to receiver. Now, once in a while the HDMI connection will perform better, but OTOH sometimes the component connection will perform better. Typically it's a wash.

 

[Porschefan]

Porschefan, get a Tivo box. You'll never go back. I haven't paid for programming in years, but my friend has got one. It's sweet.

If it lasts you a couple of years, you'll likely have paid it off, considering the savings on STB rental. Streams a bunch of things too.

Otherwise: simply use component connections from Cisco to TV. You lose nothing in terms of rez, or audio quality. Run SPDIF to receiver. Now, once in a while the HDMI connection will perform better, but OTOH sometimes the component connection will perform better. Typically it's a wash.

Thanks for the input, but I don't understand how this would help--but that could definitely just be me. I guess if I bought a TIVO I could turn in Comcast's DVR/Receiver box, but I'd still have to get some kind of set top box from Comcast, right?

On your second point, I think I get it, but running a set of component cables from the box location to the TV would be a royal PITA at least at one of the locations--there's an existing HDMI cable run through the walls, and getting a set of component video cables through there would be a real PITA.

(As you can tell, I have very limited experience with this stuff, so I sometimes have to get very basic things straight.)

 

[jostenmeat]

Ok, so let's strike off the component connection route.

The Tivo replaces the Comcast POS device.

If your Tivo lasts you for more than a couple of years, you start keeping money in the pocket. All the while you would have a much better performer. Then you get to stick your tongue out at Crapcast.

 

[Porschefan]

Ok, so let's strike off the component connection route.

The Tivo replaces the Comcast POS device.

If your Tivo lasts you for more than a couple of years, you start keeping money in the pocket. All the while you would have a much better performer. Then you get to stick your tongue out at Crapcast.

I didn't know that. So it looks like:

TIVO Pro's: Much better quality receiver AND DVR.

TIVO Con's: I have to:
a) pay for the TIVO
b) pay Comcast $8/month for a cable card to put in the TIVO
c) pay TIVO for a subscription

Total cost/month for a TIVO is significantly higher than Comcast. I pay @ $15/month EACH for the two DVR/receivers from Comcast. One TIVO box would cost $8 (cable car) + $12.95 month plus the cost of amortizing the TIVO purchase.

Arghhhh..... ;-).

 

[TLS Guy]

I didn't know that. So it looks like:

TIVO Pro's: Much better quality receiver AND DVR.

TIVO Con's: I have to:
a) pay for the TIVO
b) pay Comcast $8/month for a cable card to put in the TIVO
c) pay TIVO for a subscription

Total cost/month for a TIVO is significantly higher than Comcast. I pay @ $15/month EACH for the two DVR/receivers from Comcast. One TIVO box would cost $8 (cable car) + $12.95 month plus the cost of amortizing the TIVO purchase.

Arghhhh..... ;-).

Then your only other options are make Comcast give an HDCP compliant box or run component video cables.

 

[jostenmeat]

I didn't know that. So it looks like:

TIVO Pro's: Much better quality receiver AND DVR.

TIVO Con's: I have to:
a) pay for the TIVO
b) pay Comcast $8/month for a cable card to put in the TIVO
c) pay TIVO for a subscription

Total cost/month for a TIVO is significantly higher than Comcast. I pay @ $15/month EACH for the two DVR/receivers from Comcast. One TIVO box would cost $8 (cable car) + $12.95 month plus the cost of amortizing the TIVO purchase.

Arghhhh..... ;-).

I see. Well like I said, I haven't paid for programming in many years, so you have to forgive me for "being out of touch".

Geeeez, $8 for a cable card now?! Oh gosh, last I asked a local carrier, it was $2.

For whatever reason, I think of amortizing a "lifetime" subscription, and just "dropping the money" on the unit itself. The format/ergonomics are night and day, and that's not to mention netflix/amazon/youtube/blockbuster. Oh yeah, HDCP compliance too.

For amortizing the subscription, it will be paid off in two years and three months. Crap, oh yeah, cable card is $8. Darnit.

Dunno man. Do like me, give the middle finger, embrace bluray, buy a $50 antenna, $10 cable, and use OTA for TV. Nope, no more history channel, espn, discovery, hbo, etc. But, you can rent those shows too for a fraction of the price though. Otherwise, the OTA signal will blow your comcast away. I still get NFL, local NBA, Olympics, Final Four, major national networks, news, etc . . .

 

[Porschefan]

I see. Well like I said, I haven't paid for programming in many years, so you have to forgive me for "being out of touch".

Geeeez, $8 for a cable card now?! Oh gosh, last I asked a local carrier, it was $2.

Plus a $40 "installation fee" to insert the cable card into the Ceton card!! Not sure about the TIVO.

Dunno man. Do like me, give the middle finger, embrace bluray, buy a $50 antenna, $10 cable, and use OTA for TV. Nope, no more history channel, espn, discovery, hbo, etc. But, you can rent those shows too for a fraction of the price though. Otherwise, the OTA signal will blow your comcast away. I still get NFL, local NBA, Olympics, Final Four, major national networks, news, etc . . .

This is not a bad idea at all....I have a BD player with a bunch of apps including Netflix and Pandora and Youtube. And a Roku box with lots and lots of Podcasts, Amazon Video on Demand and Hulu Plus. The only thing I think holding me back is I'm a big Lakers fan and want my fix. I'll definitely look into an OTA antenna and see what's available here in ABQ. The TIVO takes care of recording too.

I think the ultimate answer is a really good HTPC, but that's a fairly expensive and daunting proposition in itself.

It gives me some comfort to know that Comcast must be concerned about what's happening. I read an article that purported that something like 75-80% of customers would jump ship in a minute if there were a viable alternative...and now there are starting to be lots of them.

Thanks for the input...I've got some new alternatives to consider. My time line is in about 5 months when all my special deals with Comcast expire. Right now the TV package with 2 DVR's is only costing about $60/month (lots and lots of credits due to some serious screw ups on their part). But eventually it will be $140 and one can buy a LOT of content with that kind of money.

 

[jostenmeat]

You're welcome. Use this very helpful to to find your stations and signal strength. A nice feature is that when you save your own configuration, to copy/paste at a forum, it hides the address for your privacy. However, I highly doubt you can get many, if any, Laker games over there.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

 

[google7027]

Use this very helpful to to find your stations and signal strength.