How to setup multiple amps to run off one master volume

[Justin DeWitt]

So here is my quandary. I have a home movie theater room in which we have audio split between multiple amplifiers. The reason behind this is 1. the size of the system and 2. the required separation for proper equalization to calibrate for the room. What I am trying to figure out is what can I do to allow me to simply set the gains on each amplifier so that I have a balanced sound that I want then have 1 system in which I can adjust the master volume with. My thoughts were to get a multi-channel selector box but I haven't been able to find one with enough inputs and outputs, with a master volume control, and with remote control functionality. Our theater has over 15 components in the setup so it is essential to have just 1 remote to run them all so the family can use it without me being present. The speaker function is the only hangup that I am dealing with here. Any thoughts or suggestions on this?

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum, Justin!

I'll admit to being a bit surprised that you don't already have a master volume, but it will help to know what your components are and how you have them connected. It's not unusual (at least for folks here ) to run multiple amps. A typical system will have:
(*) One or more sources (e.g. blu-ray player, TV/cable box)
(*) A pre-amp/processor to process digital signals, select between sources, add any equalization and calibration, and control the master volume
(*) One or more amplifiers to amplify the signals from the pre-amp high enough to drive speakers
(*) Multiple speakers (two or more)

Btw, a home AV receiver combines the pre-amp/processor and amplifiers into a single unit. There are numerous permutations on the above, with some units combining the source/pre-amp/processor/amps into a single unit, and others having amps directly in the speakers.

 

[Justin DeWitt]

Welcome to the forum, Justin!

I'll admit to being a bit surprised that you don't already have a master volume, but it will help to know what your components are and how you have them connected. It's not unusual (at least for folks here ) to run multiple amps. A typical system will have:
(*) One or more sources (e.g. blu-ray player, TV/cable box)
(*) A pre-amp/processor to process digital signals, select between sources, add any equalization and calibration, and control the master volume
(*) One or more amplifiers to amplify the signals from the pre-amp high enough to drive speakers
(*) Multiple speakers (two or more)

Btw, a home AV receiver combines the pre-amp/processor and amplifiers into a single unit. There are numerous permutations on the above, with some units combining the source/pre-amp/processor/amps into a single unit, and others having amps directly in the speakers.

I feel a bit foolish on this but my AV processor is an older model receiver that doesn't have a pre-amp configuration. I ran my main speakers, center channel, and sub amps through the independent amps while my surrounds are ran through the processor amp itself. The amps are ran from the recorder outputs since that is the only "pre-amp" option on the receiver (there is no digital separation on the back). Basically, I read your post and answered my own problem fairly easily. I need to upgrade my receiver to one with a digital sound pre-amp output setup that would be large enough (more than 2 channels) to separate my system and buy a new amp to power my surround speakers. Once the amps are connected into a proper pre-amp setup, the volume control on the receiver should work as a master volume. Until then I will have to independently adjust the gains.

My equipment is as follows:

RCA Receiver/Processor Model RT2280 "used to distribute audio from the main distribution panel and amplifies the surround channels"
Pyle PPEQ150 Equalizer (2 of these) "using these to provide sound conditioning for the front left and right and center channels"
Pyle PT3300 Amplifier (2 of these) "Powers the main left and right and center channels"
Pyle PT4000 Amplifier "Powers the two subs front and rear"
Pyle 8 channel power conditioner "Balances the power for the audio equipment"
4 channel HDMI distribution center "Splits all of the HD components and distributes then via a channel selector to audio and video setup"

and from there is a myriad of tv components and game consoles all ran to the audio system and projector.

If I am thinking about this correctly, I could get another 4 channel amp to run my surrounds and rears then locate a good 7.1-9.2 channel receiver with pre-amp audio outputs and that should take care of my problem.

 

[lsiberian]

Get a receiver. Ebay the amps and RCA thing. Keep it simple silly.

 

[Adam]

If you're going to amplify all of the signals with external amps, you really only need a pre/pro. However, those can cost as much as a receiver (because they are a smaller market and so don't benefit from economies of scale).

If you get a good 7.1-9.2 receiver, you can power the surrounds (well, all of your speakers) from that receiver. Several people will get external amps for the front speakers to lighten the load on the receiver, but still use the receiver's internal amps for the surrounds. Of course, this will depend on your speakers. If you have low-impedance speakers and like to play things really loud, then that might be too much current draw for a lot of receivers.

A lot of modern receivers, and probably any that you find with multi-channel pre-amp outputs, have auto setup (calibration and equalization) systems. Examples are Audyssey (used in several brands), MCACC (for Pioneer), and YPAO (for Yamaha). You might find that to work well enough to remove the PPEQ150s from your system.

Do you have a particular budget in mind?

 

[Justin DeWitt]

Get a receiver. Ebay the amps and RCA thing. Keep it simple silly.

There is no desire to keep it simple for this room. My living room runs off a simple 5.1 configuration with a receiver, powered sub, two fronts and a surround and for that room it does what it is intended to do, amps the power and provides sound separation. For watching TV, it does a good job but our Theater is more than twice the size of our living room for one and requires higher amplification or else you end up with a deadening of the sound. That is why we first tested the room with a 7.2 receiver by itself and it didn't work for our needs. We purchased the amps to test the sound levels with them before completing the upgrade of the system and the amps that are on the system does make a massive improvement to the sound quality of the room.
We are in the process of installing a concessions room next to the theater and I am planning on adding a media closet in this area to rack all of the equipment and hide them away from the main viewing room as well so this is more of a test phase with the current setup anyway. I will say that I am pleased with the performance of the amps and the equalizers though.

Another reason why a simple setup isn't in the cards for this area is that the room is also used as a club area in our house for friends and family. We have a Karaoke setup and retractable strobes with a dance floor area between the seating and the screen area. Our kids love to dance and sing so we installation alllows for a multi-purpose function for us.

 

[Justin DeWitt]

If you're going to amplify all of the signals with external amps, you really only need a pre/pro. However, those can cost as much as a receiver (because they are a smaller market and so don't benefit from economies of scale).

If you get a good 7.1-9.2 receiver, you can power the surrounds (well, all of your speakers) from that receiver. Several people will get external amps for the front speakers to lighten the load on the receiver, but still use the receiver's internal amps for the surrounds. Of course, this will depend on your speakers. If you have low-impedance speakers and like to play things really loud, then that might be too much current draw for a lot of receivers.

A lot of modern receivers, and probably any that you find with multi-channel pre-amp outputs, have auto setup (calibration and equalization) systems. Examples are Audyssey (used in several brands), MCACC (for Pioneer), and YPAO (for Yamaha). You might find that to work well enough to remove the PPEQ150s from your system.

Do you have a particular budget in mind?

Thanks for the info Adam. I found an Onkyo TX-NR3007 new on discount for $685.00. It provides a capable 9.2 channel surround with complete network capability and HDMI spliter functionality so I can eliminate two other components from my system as well as run all of my audio pre-amp outputs to the eq/amp configurations. This should provide me with what I was looking for in regards to the audio need. In regards to a budget I am looking to keep everything under $5k for the components setup. As of right now I am roughly $3,800.00 into the project so the receiver and additional eq/amp will still keep me well under my budget line.

 

[slipperybidness]

There is no desire to keep it simple for this room. My living room runs off a simple 5.1 configuration with a receiver, powered sub, two fronts and a surround and for that room it does what it is intended to do, amps the power and provides sound separation. For watching TV, it does a good job but our Theater is more than twice the size of our living room for one and requires higher amplification or else you end up with a deadening of the sound. That is why we first tested the room with a 7.2 receiver by itself and it didn't work for our needs. We purchased the amps to test the sound levels with them before completing the upgrade of the system and the amps that are on the system does make a massive improvement to the sound quality of the room.
We are in the process of installing a concessions room next to the theater and I am planning on adding a media closet in this area to rack all of the equipment and hide them away from the main viewing room as well so this is more of a test phase with the current setup anyway. I will say that I am pleased with the performance of the amps and the equalizers though.

Another reason why a simple setup isn't in the cards for this area is that the room is also used as a club area in our house for friends and family. We have a Karaoke setup and retractable strobes with a dance floor area between the seating and the screen area. Our kids love to dance and sing so we installation alllows for a multi-purpose function for us.

What is is telling you with "keep it simple" is that your setup is overly-complicated as it is. If you like it complex where only you can use it, then keep it as-is. You can accomplish everything you want with a simpler, cleaner insallation though.

 

[lsiberian]

There is no desire to keep it simple for this room. My living room runs off a simple 5.1 configuration with a receiver, powered sub, two fronts and a surround and for that room it does what it is intended to do, amps the power and provides sound separation. For watching TV, it does a good job but our Theater is more than twice the size of our living room for one and requires higher amplification or else you end up with a deadening of the sound. That is why we first tested the room with a 7.2 receiver by itself and it didn't work for our needs. We purchased the amps to test the sound levels with them before completing the upgrade of the system and the amps that are on the system does make a massive improvement to the sound quality of the room.
We are in the process of installing a concessions room next to the theater and I am planning on adding a media closet in this area to rack all of the equipment and hide them away from the main viewing room as well so this is more of a test phase with the current setup anyway. I will say that I am pleased with the performance of the amps and the equalizers though.

Another reason why a simple setup isn't in the cards for this area is that the room is also used as a club area in our house for friends and family. We have a Karaoke setup and retractable strobes with a dance floor area between the seating and the screen area. Our kids love to dance and sing so we installation alllows for a multi-purpose function for us.

The Sherbourn PT7030 is a great option though it may be out of your budget. PT-7030 Home Theater Preamp/Processor | Sherbourn Technologies

 

[Justin DeWitt]

The Sherbourn PT7030 is a great option though it may be out of your budget. PT-7030 Home Theater Preamp/Processor | Sherbourn Technologies

Thank you for the link. I reviewed the Sherbourn and really like the options it has. It may be out of the budget for the testing retrofit that we are running at the moment but the overhaul this summer it is definitely a contender.

We basically wanted to test some component options over the next few months to see if they stack up to our desire here for sound output and setup. We are going to be conducting a home renovation starting late spring in which the downstairs room that is the theater will be stretched out by an additional 16 feet making the room a 22.5 X 36 with three rows of theater seating, an open floor and a stage in front of the screen.

The pyle components we are quite happy with thus far. Our intentions are to create an advanced style of environmental audio in the room. I have a layout for a 15.2 channel system and outside of the two powered subs, all of the other speakers will be in-wall. The subs will be covered with end table tops and sides to protect them and hide them away and the components will be racked in our media closet which will be inside the concessions area totally out of view of the room.

Right now we are running quality audio speakers in the existing room and from what I have at this point, a top quality processor will be the last item to top off the system.

 

[Justin DeWitt]

What is is telling you with "keep it simple" is that your setup is overly-complicated as it is. If you like it complex where only you can use it, then keep it as-is. You can accomplish everything you want with a simpler, cleaner insallation though.

I don't see any need to make it so complex that only I can run the system. That was the misfire point when I failed to stop and check the current receiver and wanted to run the system with a single volume control.

The purpose of the complexity is to have the ability to fully control all aspects of the sound quality. Changing dynamics of the sound can totally change the dynamic of the cinema or media experience. The end user experience of the system is meant to be simple. All of the components are ran from an i-pad remote application. Once the renovation is complete all the components will be in a media rack tucked away with an ir sensor above the screen to pick up the remote signal and control the components. The complexity is behind the curtain where pre-set options can be done to enhance performance when desired. Once the equalization, crossover settings, and amplification gains are all pre-set, the sound is adjusted from just one point and the change between dynamic sound patterns is done using the same remote same as the projector, screen, and video options. As far as complexity is concerned, my 8 year old is currently capable of running the theater system on her own so I think if she can manage it I should be fine.

 

[lsiberian]

Pyle doesn't have a good reputation so I'd advise crown or Yamaha amps instead. I know they aren't cheap but they will last longer and give better performance. For your remodel look at jtr speakers. Not cheap but they will give you plenty of headroom and are designed for it. For large areas hanging speakers is advised for best audio distribution.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

 

[Justin DeWitt]

Pyle doesn't have a good reputation so I'd advise crown or Yamaha amps instead. I know they aren't cheap but they will last longer and give better performance. For your remodel look at jtr speakers. Not cheap but they will give you plenty of headroom and are designed for it. For large areas hanging speakers is advised for best audio distribution.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

I agree Pyle has a bad reputation. That is why I went ahead and purchased an amp and eq to test before we upgrade the entire system. I 100% agree that Yamaha has great amps. I have personally ran into overheating issues with Crown in stage settings so I am mixed on those. The in wall installations plan to consist of 10 Klipsch R-5650-W II in wall units, 6 Klipsch R-5502-W II in wall units for front left and rights around the screen and center channel, 1 Klipsch RW-5802 in wall for sub sound off the center, 2 Klipsch R-5650-S II for the rear, and 4 Klipsch CDT-3800-C II ceiling mount speakers for overhead ambient sound effects.

With exception of the two subs that I already have, all of the other speakers plan to be flush mounted in wall. I chose to test Pyle simply because I have worked with Pyle professional audio systems for years in on-stage applications and have had great success in amplification. I don't know much about home audio components from them and the units I have in the theater now are pro systems and after 4 months of brutalizing them they are holding up. The amplification of the speakers work fine thus far. The real testimate will be attaching a good processor to it and testing to see what reduction in sound quality might happen, if any, from the receiver to the amp.

I have looked at Yamaha because I have used them as wall and Marantz but Marantz puts the build out of the price range and I don't want to shorten myself elsewhere to pay for amplifiers. Yamaha is cheaper than Marantz but still is ten times the cost of Pyle. For example, the PT3300 3,000 watt 4 channel amps I am currently testing cost me $130.00 new directly from Pyle. The Yamaha S3000 runs $1,460.00. To provide the power that I want in the room I am looking at 1 4,000 watt amp, 2 3,000 watt amps, 1 1,500 watt amp and 4 1,000 watt amps. Using Pyle the amp price would be roughly $925.00. The nearest name brand option I found was in fact Crown but the amps would run me just over $12k. The price difference honestly justifies amp meltdowns. Even if I ended up changing out amps every year it would still take me 13 years to end up spending the same amount.

That said, I am testing anything cheap that goes into the rack before we go full bore with the upgrades. I ordered a Marantz SR5008 7.2-Channel Receiver to run as the main unit. I found one on sale for $585.00 new so I jumped on it. Once it comes in I plan on testing the sound quality of the seperation with and without the amplification to see what the extent of frequency loss might be effected between the receiver to the amp. It there is some drop that is ok since I intend to run 20 band equalizers between the receiver and the amps to help boost any crossfade issues and it would also work to balance out low frequency loss. That being said, I am by no means married to the idea of using Pyle brands. If the sound quality falls off too much then I will look at another brand of amplifier and see what we need to adjust price wise to make it work.

 

[Justin DeWitt]

Just to outline what the completed system in our home theater will look like once completed here is a breakdown of the components:

VIDEO:
Projector: Mitsubishi XL7100U (already have)
Screen: Da Lite in ceiling retractable 150" (already have)
Minix NEO-X7-216A Media hub (ordered awaiting arrival)
TWC HD DVR box (already on system)
Apple TV MD199LL/A (already on system)
LG BP335 3D Blue Ray Player (already have)
NETGEAR ReadyNAS 100 Series 2-Bay Diskless Network Attached Storage RN10200 with 8TB of storage
Panasonic VCR (already have)
HDMI 1080p analog converter (already have)

SOUND:
Marantz SR5008 7.2-Channel Receiver (ordered)
Pyle PT4000 2 Channel Amplifier (already have)
Pyle PT3300 4 Channel Amplifier (already have)
Pyle PT3300 4 Channel Amplifier (already have)
Pyle PT1500 2 Channel Amplifier
Pyle PT1000 4 Channel Amplifier
Pyle PT1000 4 Channel Amplifier
Pyle PT1000 4 Channel Amplifier
Pyle PT1000 4 Channel Amplifier
Pyle PPEQ150 2 Channel Equalizer (already have)
Pyle PPEQ150 2 Channel Equalizer (already have)
Pyle PPEQ150 2 Channel Equalizer
Pyle PPEQ150 2 Channel Equalizer
Pyle PPEQ150 2 Channel Equalizer
Pyle PPCX2 Crossover
Pyle PPCX2 Crossover
Pyle PPVERB16 Sound Processor

AUDIO COMPONENTS
NEO NK-2000U Karaoke Player (already have)
TASCAM CD-355 CD Player (already have)

SPEAKER SYSTEM
2 Accoustic Audio 12" 800 Watt subwoofers (already have)
10 Klipsch R-5650-W II in wall units
6 Klipsch R-5502-W II in wall units
2 Klipsch R-5650-S II in wall units
4 Klipsch CDT-3800-C II ceiling mount units
1 Klipsch RW-5802 in wall sub

GAMING
Nintendo Wii (already have)
PS3 (already have)
Xbox 1

LIGHTING
Insteon remote 4 way dimmer system
6 recessed lighting on dimmer
Track lighting 4 way over screen
Rope lighting under seats and stairs
10 sconce wall lighting on dimmer

AV POWER MANAGEMENT
2 PT800 power conditioners (already have)
Monster HTUPS 3700 Home Theater Powercenter
2 independent circuit breakers for cinema system

In addition we will be installing accoustic foam in the ceiling and adding 8 accoustic panels (3 down each wall and 2 in the rear) to suppress sound waves.

All of the system will be racked in our concessions area in what we call the "media closet".

We will be running a Sanus IR multi-sensor setup which will transmit the IR frequencies of the components to a single IR sensor positioned over the projector screen.

The remote control is a Roomie VR remote app on our i-pad (already have). It makes it very handy to control all of the hidden components as well as lighting and even temperature control all from one device.

 

[Justin DeWitt]

Pyle doesn't have a good reputation so I'd advise crown or Yamaha amps instead. I know they aren't cheap but they will last longer and give better performance. For your remodel look at jtr speakers. Not cheap but they will give you plenty of headroom and are designed for it. For large areas hanging speakers is advised for best audio distribution.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

Just an update. I got my Marantz Pre Pro in today and hooked it up. The sound quality massively changed and I am seriously satisfied with the component. On a swing change however, I have opted to change the amplifier layout. I am still going with Pyle on the amps as I have had no issues with the PT3300 and PT4000. I have ordered 2 PT8000 8000 watt amps for the build. Each amp allows for independent input per each line and gain adjustment for each individual speaker. The 16 channels will cover everything that I need (15 channels including a bridged channel for the center) and 1,000 watts of power capacity per speaker should give me all the pop I want. I am keeping the 4,000 watt for the subs. One of the PT8000's will be directly fed from the Marantz pre outs and cover all 7 channels including the bridged center. The second amp will be split out of the pre-outs and will be seperated further using the two ppcx crossovers. Since the Marantz provides an adjustable EQ balance we are getting rid of the PPEQ150's. This should save some money as well as free up much needed space in our rack.