how to hook up 28 ceiling speakers?

[Reed]

I work at a hospital and they want to implement some ceiling speakers. Like most rural hospitals, they have no real money to contract this out so they're asking if we can do it.

I was looking at these speakers: "Atlas ADZ612C Add A Zone Kit" (can't post links it says - but basic description is "Designed to allow easy installation of in wall or in ceiling distributed 8-Ohm systems for small office or home systems using standard 8-Ohm consumer style receivers. Kit includes (2) ceiling or in wall speaker systems, (1) 50-watt Impedance matching volume control, and 100' of 16-2 speaker wire").
Volume control is not super important, but will be necessary in some parts. Also, these speakers will not be installed in pairs. It'll be more likely that only one speaker is installed in a room. Basically imagine a long hallway with 14 rooms on each side and one speaker per room. They're not going to be jamming out or anything, and speakers will never be on full volume.

What is truly the best way to set this up? I have some experience with audio equip but am primarily a computer guy

I'm very open to suggestions on how to efficiently set this up as well as suggested equipment for those of you with experience. Cost is a factor, but more importantly we have to make sure we set it up correctly and don't burn anything down. This is actually being set up because some cancer kids who moaned and groaned because they want music That's why it's important to me to do the best job I can, even if I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to this big of an audio setup.

 

[TLS Guy]

I work at a hospital and they want to implement some ceiling speakers. Like most rural hospitals, they have no real money to contract this out so they're asking if we can do it.

I was looking at these speakers: "Atlas ADZ612C Add A Zone Kit" (can't post links it says - but basic description is "Designed to allow easy installation of in wall or in ceiling distributed 8-Ohm systems for small office or home systems using standard 8-Ohm consumer style receivers. Kit includes (2) ceiling or in wall speaker systems, (1) 50-watt Impedance matching volume control, and 100' of 16-2 speaker wire").
Volume control is not super important, but will be necessary in some parts. Also, these speakers will not be installed in pairs. It'll be more likely that only one speaker is installed in a room. Basically imagine a long hallway with 14 rooms on each side and one speaker per room. They're not going to be jamming out or anything, and speakers will never be on full volume.

What is truly the best way to set this up? I have some experience with audio equip but am primarily a computer guy

I'm very open to suggestions on how to efficiently set this up as well as suggested equipment for those of you with experience. Cost is a factor, but more importantly we have to make sure we set it up correctly and don't burn anything down. This is actually being set up because some cancer kids who moaned and groaned because they want music That's why it's important to me to do the best job I can, even if I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to this big of an audio setup.

For 28 speakers, you need to use professional 70 or 100 volt standard.

You will need 70 or 100 volt PA amp, for that many speakers 100 volt would be best.

This is the second time this has come up in 24 hours.

Take a look at this thread.

If you use standard 4 or 8 ohm speakers and impedance matching volume controls, it will be a real mess. You will have huge signal losses as well as a very high wire cost.

If you don't understand the previous thread, or have doubts about being able to do this, then please get a professional installer. That will be a lot cheaper the you doing a poor incorrect installation.

The other issue is that since this is a hospital, I very much doubt you are allowed to do this. In fact I would be 99.9% certain you would be breaking the law.

 

[markw]

Yep. "normal" speakers and amps won't cut it here.

T gave you a pretty good start but here's a link that might help you get a better grasp on the situation : http://www.soundinstitute.com/article_detail.cfm/ID/101

 

[agarwalro]

Here is a site that will give you the basics. They also have kits that can probably have you up and running in a cost effective manner.

http://www.htd.com/s.nl/sc.5/category.8/ctype.KB/KB.2987/.f

But it is geared more towards home rather than commertial installs.

 

[highfigh]

As TLS GUY stated, you're outside of the building code if you do this yourself partially because they use pure oxygen and other gases. The local inspector will be able to answer any questions you have and if not, go to the state- they have strict regulations concerning this.

70V will definitely be an easier way to distribute the music without major losses, especially when long runs are involved. TOA, Atlas and Bogen are three companies that deal with this kind of system, so contacting them would be a good idea. TOA has separate modules for each channel for different sources, input types and power output- they just plug in and use a screw to hold them in place.

 

[Reed]

I apologize for not searching ahead of time and if this information was posted very recently. I did a generalized google search, which is what led me to this site, but the post I landed on wasn't quite the same setup.
Thank you guys very much for the useful links and information. I'll read the links today.
I'll contact someone about the O2 issue. I believe that in this particular wing of the hospital, since it's an older wing, they do not have centralized O2 lines, so I may be in the clear there. However, I will definitely ask about.

Thanks again for all your help. This will definitely get me started on the right track.

 

[TLS Guy]

I apologize for not searching ahead of time and if this information was posted very recently. I did a generalized google search, which is what led me to this site, but the post I landed on wasn't quite the same setup.
Thank you guys very much for the useful links and information. I'll read the links today.
I'll contact someone about the O2 issue. I believe that in this particular wing of the hospital, since it's an older wing, they do not have centralized O2 lines, so I may be in the clear there. However, I will definitely ask about.

Thanks again for all your help. This will definitely get me started on the right track.

I was a partner in a 100 physician plus clinic, and I was building and capital budget chairman for many years. I can't imagine there is a jurisdiction in the US, that will allow this by any other individuals than licensed contractors.

Whether there is O2 or not by your wires, they will be very fussy about what goes in the ceiling of a hospital, and who puts it there.

 

[Reed]

Very good point TLS, I will most definitely ask those questions before I install.

 

[Rickster71]

Hi Reed, welcome to Audioholics.

Since this work is to be done in a hospital, the Electrical Code becomes rather complex.

At the very least, consult the electrical inspector, and call a professional.
Is it possible for the hospital to ask a Licensed Electrician to donate his time, and the hospital supplies the material?
It’s a great way for the electrician to get a tax write-off, and at the same time help a good cause.

Good Luck,
Rick

 

[BMXTRIX]

These are what are what we typically use in hospitals for paging systems...

http://www.atlassound.com/Product.aspx?id=1326&pI=1325

Typically sold for around $50 a speaker (give or take a bit).

You have typical plenum cabling which is required, an amp, and whatever sources you want to integrate into things. Keep in mind, this is a SINGLE source setup. No real selection here among different sources.

If everyone wants something different, I would go with boom boxes in the rooms. Plus, no headaches with fire codes.

$30 a pop...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9183279&type=product&id=1218051662128

and you could possibly sweet talk them into a lot less.

 

[Reed]

thanks a bunch everyone. doing some research and I actually learned quite a bit more than I thought I would (which is always a big plus in my book).

While I wait to talk to inspectors and such, I decided if I do this, I would go with this for PA (took out www since i cant post links yet to prevent spammers) xxx.ginelectronics.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25_223&products_id=1099

and these for speakers: xxx.ginelectronics.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25_153&products_id=552

running them at 5v would be sufficient ya think?

Also, using the transformer, I would connect these parallel right?

Either way, thanks again guys for quick and informative posts. In the end, they may just realize it'd be better to contract it out and maybe they can get some folks to make some donations or time, etc.

 

[TLS Guy]

thanks a bunch everyone. doing some research and I actually learned quite a bit more than I thought I would (which is always a big plus in my book).

While I wait to talk to inspectors and such, I decided if I do this, I would go with this for PA (took out www since i cant post links yet to prevent spammers) xxx.ginelectronics.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25_223&products_id=1099

and these for speakers: xxx.ginelectronics.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25_153&products_id=552

running them at 5v would be sufficient ya think?

Also, using the transformer, I would connect these parallel right?

Either way, thanks again guys for quick and informative posts. In the end, they may just realize it'd be better to contract it out and maybe they can get some folks to make some donations or time, etc.

PA standard are 70 and 100 volt. Obviously you can get more total power with the 100 volt system. I think you mean that the transformer tap will be 5 watt. The addition of the total taps in watts must add up to the power of amplifier, no more and no less. Then the impedance of the system will be correct So if you put 5 watt taps on all 28 speakers you would need a 140 watt amp, which I think will put you in the 100 volt class. And yes, there really is 70 or 100 volts on the speaker leads depending on whether you go with a 70 or 100 volt PA amp. The impedance and voltages are high, so that the current is low and you can use small gauge bell wire to hook up the speakers. You are correct all, the transformer primaries are connected in parallel.

Since this will be a high voltage speaker installation, you have to know what you are doing, given that this is a hospital.

If money is a problem, I would get a 70 watt amp and tap to each transformer at the 2.5 watt tap.