How to change XLR balanced to RCA unbalanced in a cable?

[Mike82]

I am going from my pre amp to my active x-over(DCX2496) with balanced XLR cables for my right and left. From there I am coming out of my x-over with a XLR output and into my my amp which is a RCA input. I have been running it with the ground (#1 pin) hooked up on the XLR to the ground on the RCA and the hot (#2 pin) hooked up on the XLR to the hot on the RCA. Which works but it seems like I am looseing some signal level this way. So I read around and Behringer says when going to unbalanced use, pins 1 and 3 have to be bridged. I thought I would ask you guys before I did this to make sure this will work and not wreck anything.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Yeah, it's connecting negative and ground. That won't boost your signal level though, is there a gain knob?

 

[WmAx]

Coming out of the DCX XLR to RCA in on an amp, you should use passive line attenuators. The DCX has a very high output level intended for pro amps. You may have noise or clipping problems using it directly into a consumer amplifier with RCA inputs if not using the attenuators.

-Chris

 

[MidnightSensi]

He said the signal level was low, so, I wouldn't put attentuators on there.

 

[Mike82]

The reason I think I get a lower output than input is the meters. The input meters are very high -5 or higher and the outputs are alo lower like -40 or -20 the highest I see them go is -10 amd thats at full tilt. Maybe I am reading this wrong.

 

[Mike82]

I was also gonna ad that my parasound never really clips out but my adcom does easily I wonder if it is becasue of the high output signal you speak of WmAx, I wonder how I could test for that?

 

[Mike82]

Well I did all the cables up by jumping all the 1 and 3 pins together. The bad thing is it trips out my parasound amp now. I wonder if by doing this it increased the signal to much and the amp cant handle it anymore. Does that make sense?

 

[Josuah]

So I read around and Behringer says when going to unbalanced use, pins 1 and 3 have to be bridged.

Did Behringer tell you this directly (i.e. over the phone or their support email) or did you just read someone saying that Behringer says this is okay?

I ask because shorting pins 1 and 3 might damage the DCX2496 if it's not okay. It shouldn't damage your amp/speakers, except if like WmAx says the voltage level is too high coming out of the DCX2496.

 

[Mike82]

It says it in there manual for unbalanced use bridge pins 1 and 3 together. I unbridged all the cables going to my parasound amp and it stopped tripping out. I left the ones going to my adcom becasue it did not affect that one. Anyone have any ideas on why it did this? On a side note it would not trip on low volume just mid to high.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

From there I am coming out of my x-over with a XLR output and into my my amp which is a RCA input. I have been running it with the ground (#1 pin) hooked up on the XLR to the ground on the RCA and the hot (#2 pin) hooked up on the XLR to the hot on the RCA. Which works but it seems like I am looseing some signal level this way.

I’m surprised it works at all. Typically with balanced, the signal is carried on pins 2 and 3.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Josuah]

I’m surprised it works at all. Typically with balanced, the signal is carried on pins 2 and 3.

He's floating pin 3, which may or may not be fine, but apparently nothing's blown up so far.

 

[Mike82]

Ive got to say that this forum is very special. There is about 2 people on this whole thing that actually know anything and to get them to respond is very unlikely. Then other people like to respond on things they obviously know nothing about. So in the end I usually feel like I've wasted my time trying to find a answer here.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Well, maybe we should start from scratch.

Which works but it seems like I am looseing some signal level this way.

That’s not necessarily a bad thing, unless you feel that the signal is so low that you can’t drive your amps to their maximum output (highly unlikely). Doesn’t the DCX have level adjustments that could compensate? (If indeed that is needed, which isn’t necessarily so)

Here’s a simple test you can do. Connect one channel of your pre amp directly to your amp (i.e. bypass the DCX). Compare the direct channel to the DCX channel. If the DCX channel is the same level or higher than the direct channel, your levels are fine.

I have been running it with the ground (#1 pin) hooked up on the XLR to the ground on the RCA and the hot (#2 pin) hooked up on the XLR to the hot on the RCA.

The generally accepted connection scheme for balanced to unbalanced connections is to tie pins #1 and #3 together. This can be done at the XLR or (if you're using two-conducted shielded mic cable) at the RCA. Another connection scheme is to connect the RCA to the XLR pins #2 and #3 only.

The reason I think I get a lower output than input is the meters. The input meters are very high -5 or higher and the outputs are alo lower like -40 or -20 the highest I see them go is -10 amd thats at full tilt. Maybe I am reading this wrong.

There’s nothing wrong with that signal level. You don’t want that thing putting out its maximum signal level anyway. It’ll clip your amps’ inputs.

It says it in there manual for unbalanced use bridge pins 1 and 3 together. I unbridged all the cables going to my parasound amp and it stopped tripping out. I left the ones going to my adcom becasue it did not affect that one.

What do you mean by “tripping out?”

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[no. 5]

The reason I think I get a lower output than input is the meters. The input meters are very high -5 or higher and the outputs are alo lower like -40 or -20 the highest I see them go is -10 amd thats at full tilt. Maybe I am reading this wrong.

Are all the output meters -10 or -20, or just some of them?

Here’s a simple test you can do. Connect one channel of your pre amp directly to your amp (i.e. bypass the DCX). Compare the direct channel to the DCX channel. If the DCX channel is the same level or higher than the direct channel, your levels are fine.

I think his system is active, if so, doing that could be dangerous to the tweeters.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I think his system is active, if so, doing that could be dangerous to the tweeters.

Absolutely! Stick to the mids or woofs for that experiment...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[JohnA]

Get one of these:

It actively converts a balanced signal to line level signal with independent gain control

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=245-868

 

[no. 5]

Absolutely! Stick to the mids or woofs for that experiment...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Keeps the magic smoke in.

 

[Josuah]

The generally accepted connection scheme for balanced to unbalanced connections is to tie pins #1 and #3 together. This can be done at the XLR or (if you're using two-conducted shielded mic cable) at the RCA. Another connection scheme is to connect the RCA to the XLR pins #2 and #3 only.

But you have to take care doing this. The source may not like having pin 3 shorted to ground which is what would happen if you tie #1 and #3 or connect #3 to the input RCA jack's shield. Looks like Behringer's gear is okay with this, but other gear might not be. I just wanted to make sure this warning was on here so other people didn't try it and accidentally damage something.

Since the DCX2496 already has gain control, I would recommend using a passive transformer direct box to convert balanced to unbalanced over the CleanBOX recommended by JohnA. The signal transfer should be cleaner. But, it doesn't look like the OP needs a converter anyway since the manual says it is okay.

I agree there needs to be a more technical description provided for "tripping out".

 

[Shock]

Forgive my ignorance, but could you not just use a XLR to RCA cable?

I.E http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10244&cs_id=1024405&p_id=4785&seq=1&format=2

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

But you have to take care doing this. The source may not like having pin 3 shorted to ground which is what would happen if you tie #1 and #3 or connect #3 to the input RCA jack's shield.

If this is indeed a problem, it should be plainly stated in an owner’s manual. I’ve never seen or even heard of any warnings of this kind, and I used to install pro audio for a living. (Of course, that was a good number of years ago – maybe things have changed since then. )

Keep in mind that lots of gear has 1/4” TRS connections as well as XLRs, and it’s generally accepted practice to use unbalanced TS plugs with them, which accomplishes the same thing as shorting Pins #1 & 3.

Do you know of any manufacturer who recommends not jumping pins #1 & 3? This is something I’d like to look into, for my own edification. Typically the only reason Pin #1 is floated is for noise issues.

Not jumping across Pins #1 & 3 doesn’t necessarily mean you end up with Pin #3 not being shorted to ground. Pin #3 would carry the shield connection from an RCA (i.e. the RCA’s sleeve connection). The shield connection is common with ground in unbalanced equipment. So, the “balanced” component’s Pin #3 ends up shorted to the chassis of the unbalanced component.

Regards,
Wayne