How rich do they deserve to get?

Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Biotech firm Regeneron claims to be close to successful development of COVID-19 treatments:


I have no expertise in this field, so I have no clue if this is marketing bravado or true hope. But let's ponder that Regeneron succeeds, and is able to deliver viable treatments by fall of 2020. Let's also assume that governments and insurance companies will pay a high price for these drugs, because hospitalization and reactive treatment costs are astronomical, if available at all.

How much profit is fair per patient? $500 person? $5000 per person? $50,000 per person? $100,000 per person? (Some drugs on the market now for other diseases have list prices of $100,000 per year.)
 
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Hetfield

Audioholic General
Biotech firm Regeneron claims to be close to successful development of COVID-19 treatments:


I have no expertise in this field, so I have no clue if this is marketing bravado or true hope. But let's ponder that Regeneron succeeds, and is able to deliver via treatments by fall of 2020. Let's also assume that governments and insurance companies will pay a high price for these drugs, because hospitalization and reactive treatment costs are astronomical, if available at all.

How much profit is fair per patient? $500 person? $5000 per person? $50,000 per person? $100,000 per person? (Some drugs on the market now for other diseases have list prices of $100,000 per year.)
Interesting subject and I agree with most of this. I been really, when it comes up health how much profit should be in there but I will say this, not everyone will need the vaccine. Only certain percentage who are vulnerable, older people or people with compromised immune systems.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Interesting subject and I agree with most of this. I been really, when it comes up health how much profit should be in there but I will say this, not everyone will need the vaccine. Only certain percentage who are vulnerable, older people or people with compromised immune systems.
'They' say that everyone should be immunized against Influenza, Tetanus/Diptheria, Measles, etc- what makes you say that not everyone will need it at some point before they're old?
 
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Hetfield

Audioholic General
'They' say that everyone should be immunized against Influenza, Tetanus/Diptheria, Measles, etc- what makes you say that not everyone will need it at some point before they're old?
I would think just order people and people with compromised immune systems but what do I know. I'm not doctor, just doesn't make sense for all 9 billion people to get this vaccine. It doesn't kill everyone.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
I would think just order people and people with compromised immune systems but what do I know. I'm not doctor, just doesn't make sense for all 9 billion people to get this vaccine. It doesn't kill everyone.
It might not kill everyone, but by being more immune, it may be less potent in them and that might result in less people spreading it, as quickly as it is at the moment.

The problem with antibiotics is that too many people feel good, so they stop taking their pills and the viruses mutate, making it more resistant to the drugs.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Chief
I would think just order people and people with compromised immune systems but what do I know. I'm not doctor, just doesn't make sense for all 9 billion people to get this vaccine. It doesn't kill everyone.
Those populations you list are likely to be the first to get any vaccine for this, followed by the rest of the population as production ramps up.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I would think just order people and people with compromised immune systems but what do I know. I'm not doctor, just doesn't make sense for all 9 billion people to get this vaccine. It doesn't kill everyone.
Look at the cost and risk of getting infected but not dying. Even if you're relatively young and healthy there is a moderate to high probability you may not be able to work for perhaps two or three weeks. If you get symptoms you will likely feel like crap and not be able to perform normal activities. How much would it be worth to you to not be out of work for weeks, not feel crap, and not run the risk of hospitalization, which is guaranteed to be very unpleasant? Death is not the only risk.

I've heard this story from anti-vaxers. I know a few. Measles is just a bad cold with a rash. COVID-19 is just a flu; most people get over it. I asked myself this question: if I could pay someone $500 right now to keep me from getting COVID-19, or to minimize my symptoms to a very mild level if I had already contracted it, would I? Oh yeah. And $500 each for my wife, our children, their spouses, and their children? I'd write that check today.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Chief
Also, this research isn't for a vaccine, but for an antibody treatment which helps treat those with the virus and prevent it from being as severe.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Also, this research isn't for a vaccine, but for an antibody treatment which helps treat those with the virus and prevent it from being as severe.
Agreed. I was just responding to Hetfield's post.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
I saw some kind of press release about Regeneron's trial the other day. After reading it, I thought to myself, "never mind".

NINaudio is right. Regeneron, if I remember correctly what I read, is proposing to use some their existing monoclonal antibody products, involved in blocking interleukin-6 (IL-6) mediated signaling as a tool to modify or reduce the severity of patient reactions.
Biotech firm Regeneron claims to be close to successful development of COVID-19 treatments:


I have no expertise in this field, so I have no clue if this is marketing bravado or true hope.
Let's begin with marketing bravado. Regeneron, a sucessful biotech company, started as a small start up biotech firm, and is still around today. That says something positive about Regeneron. However, I cannot also say I trust everything George Yancopoulos, Regeneron's chief scientific officer says, especially in company press releases. He is well known for pounding his own drum. Count the number of times these press releases mention him by name.
But let's ponder that Regeneron succeeds, and is able to deliver viable treatments by fall of 2020. Let's also assume that governments and insurance companies will pay a high price for these drugs, because hospitalization and reactive treatment costs are astronomical, if available at all.
You're getting too far ahead of things. People or their medical insurance will pay only if it has been adequately demonstrated that a treatment is both safe & effective. At present in the USA, only the FDA makes that call.
How much profit is fair per patient? $500 person? $5000 per person? $50,000 per person? $100,000 per person? (Some drugs on the market now for other diseases have list prices of $100,000 per year.)
How much profit per patient is fair varies widely with a patient's ability to pay. There is no single price that can be described as reasonable.

Unfortunately, present laws passed by Congress, limit the FDA's ability to consider or comment on drug prices. These same laws also prevent Medicare from negotiating lower prices from drug suppliers or manufacturers. This is presently something that only private medical insurance providers can do.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
Also, this research isn't for a vaccine, but for an antibody treatment which helps treat those with the virus and prevent it from being as severe.
Maybe this global scare will be enough to keep the pressure/funding up and they finish the job this time.

It's amazing with all of the technology in the world, they still have no cure for the flu or the common cold.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Look at the cost and risk of getting infected but not dying. Even if you're relatively young and healthy there is a moderate to high probability you may not be able to work for perhaps two or three weeks. If you get symptoms you will likely feel like crap and not be able to perform normal activities. How much would it be worth to you to not be out of work for weeks, not feel crap, and not run the risk of hospitalization, which is guaranteed to be very unpleasant? Death is not the only risk.

I've heard this story from anti-vaxers. I know a few. Measles is just a bad cold with a rash. COVID-19 is just a flu; most people get over it. I asked myself this question: if I could pay someone $500 right now to keep me from getting COVID-19, or to minimize my symptoms to a very mild level if I had already contracted it, would I? Oh yeah. And $500 each for my wife, our children, their spouses, and their children? I'd write that check today.
That story from anti-vaxers has long been a sore point for me. I may have to write a rant about that. But only if I have the time for it, what with the COVID-19 forced shut downs/slow downs. Hmm…

Vaccines are by far the least expensive medicine for serious infectious diseases. If people think missing 2 or 3 weeks work is unacceptable, and that they might want to pay big $ to avoid that, why would they not want to pay small $ for a vaccine that can prevent the disease?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
You're getting too far ahead of things. People or their medical insurance will pay only if it has been adequately demonstrated that a treatment is both safe & effective. At present in the USA, only the FDA makes that call.
I was assuming FDA approval. You can't have a "viable treatment" without FDA approval. Even a layman like me knows that.

How much profit per patient is fair varies widely with a patient's ability to pay. There is no single price that can be described as reasonable.

Unfortunately, present laws passed by Congress, limit the FDA's ability to consider or comment on drug prices. These same laws also prevent Medicare from negotiating lower prices from drug suppliers or manufacturers. This is presently something that only private medical insurance providers can do.
I wasn't looking for the FDA's opinion, I was curious about opinions here. There are many vociferous opinions about this topic on AH, not to put too fine a point on it.

As I've made no secret of, I think the law precluding Medicare from negotiating drug pricing is stupid.

Every drug has a list price. Because pricing agreements in the US are proprietary information, we seldom know what private insurers are paying, especially with the new subscription models some providers / insurers are negotiating. If a treatment sufficiently suppresses symptoms to the point where you don't care if you have the virus that would be pretty valuable. As valuable as a Hepatitis C cure? Probably not. As valuable as Tamiflu? Probably more than Tamiflu, which seems to be commonly available for about $155 for a 10 tablet treatment.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
That story from anti-vaxers has long been a sore point for me. I may have to write a rant about that. But only if I have the time for it, what with the COVID-19 forced shut downs/slow downs. Hmm…

Vaccines are by far the least expensive medicine for serious infectious diseases. If people think missing 2 or 3 weeks work is unacceptable, and that they might want to pay big $ to avoid that, why would they not want to pay small $ for a vaccine that can prevent the disease?
We couldn't agree more. I think vaccines are the greatest medical achievement in human history, AMB lives saved. However, I think the treatments like Regeneron is working on are important too, because vaccines aren't perfect for these viruses, and the symptoms are often terrible.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic General
Those populations you list are likely to be the first to get any vaccine for this, followed by the rest of the population as production ramps up.
Ok, I'm not expert. Just what I was thinking.
 

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