How much power does this receiver really put out?

[cameron paterson]

Ok so the onkyo is pretty formidable?

 

[gene]

You read the specs wrong. It is 130 watts per channel 2 channels driven into 6 ohms

The maximum power consumption of the unit is 650 watts. It is class A/B. So lets assume that it is heavily tilted to B, and that the efficiency of the power amps is 70%, which is probably generous. It is probably less than that. Now lets assume the processors, HDMI DAC etc take 60 watts. That would be a realistic figure. That leaves 56 watts per channel if you drive 7 channels to the max at once. If you did, knowing Onkyblow, it would most likely blow up.

So 56 watts per channel would be the most optimistic for 7 channels driven and I suspect would be less and may be a lot less due to power supply stress and current limiting.

The good news is that unless you are one of those lunatics who plays in 7 channel stereo you won't drive 7 channels hard at once.

Unless the power consumption on the back of an AV receiver says "MAX power consumption", it's usually just a power consumption based on 1 or 2CH driven at full power with the remaining channels driven at 1/8th. The latter is likely the case in this instance based on the S&V test measurements.

 

[PENG]

Unless the power consumption on the back of an AV receiver says "MAX power consumption", it's usually just a power consumption based on 1 or 2CH driven at full power with the remaining channels driven at 1/8th. The latter is likely the case in this instance based on the S&V test measurements.

In recent years, Yahama has been providing both power consumption and maximum power consumption specs. As shown below are for the RX-A2060_3060. It is still confusing because the "Power Consumption" appears very low compared to the top Denon, even Marantz models. D&M's figures don't say whether they are "maximum" or not but obviously not "maximum" either if we reference to your bench test data, or S&V's.

That makes me wonder if those figures are related to the two channel driven output when driven at their also confusingly stated Pre out output by Yamaha as 1 V and Denon/Marantz 1.2 V. I am obviously speculating. D&M's do tend/seem to run hotter than Yamaha's. In fact, they have been shedding weight but adding fans like crazy (up to 4 now for the higher models),so the difference in power consumption could also be due to difference in their overall efficiencies. That is, Yamaha's are probably much more efficient (e.g. slightly lower bias, lower consumption by the AV DSPs etc..) Note: I do realize the AVR-X8500H is an exception, it has 4 fans but still weigh over 50 lbs.

It is tempting to email their respective customer supports for more info, but based on past experience, unless I can communicated directly with the right group of people, responses from their general support group on a technical question such as this will most likely be useless.

Gene, if you know the right people to talk to, I hope you can find out more about their basis on the power consumption specs once and for all. On the other hand, they'll probably ask you to sign some sort of non disclosure agreement first.

 

[Swerd]

Ok so the onkyo is pretty formidable?

It depends on what speakers you're using. Did you ever tell us what they are? If you did, I don't recall.

For most speakers, and most listening distances, that Onkyo AVR should be powerful enough.

 

[cameron paterson]

I have KEF q5 towers and a KEF iQ60c center. And Dayton surrounds.. Soon I will have these DIY 1099's though:
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speaker-kits/home-theater-series/impressives.html

99 meaning they're sensitivity is 99db @ 1 watt at 1 meter

 

[Swerd]

I have KEF q5 towers and a KEF iQ60c center. And Dayton surrounds.. Soon I will have these DIY 1099's though:
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speaker-kits/home-theater-series/impressives.html

99 meaning they're sensitivity is 99db @ 1 watt at 1 meter

You can stop worrying about having enough power .

 

[cameron paterson]

That's what I was thinking. What do you guys think about the 1099's? WIll they blow away what I have now? I mean sound quality. I have a great subwoofer so I am good there.

 

[M Code]

In recent years, Yahama has been providing both power consumption and maximum power consumption specs. As shown below are for the RX-A2060_3060. It is still confusing because the "Power Consumption" appears very low compared to the top Denon, even Marantz models. D&M's figures don't say whether they are "maximum" or not but obviously not "maximum" either if we reference to your bench test data, or S&V's.

View attachment 24508

View attachment 24507

That makes me wonder if those figures are related to the two channel driven output when driven at their also confusingly stated Pre out output by Yamaha as 1 V and Denon/Marantz 1.2 V. I am obviously speculating. D&M's do tend/seem to run hotter than Yamaha's. In fact, they have been shedding weight but adding fans like crazy (up to 4 now for the higher models),so the difference in power consumption could also be due to difference in their overall efficiencies. That is, Yamaha's are probably much more efficient (e.g. slightly lower bias, lower consumption by the AV DSPs etc..) Note: I do realize the AVR-X8500H is an exception, it has 4 fans but still weigh over 50 lbs.

It is tempting to email their respective customer supports for more info, but based on past experience, unless I can communicated directly with the right group of people, responses from their general support group on a technical question such as this will most likely be useless.

Gene, if you know the right people to talk to, I hope you can find out more about their basis on the power consumption specs once and for all. On the other hand, they'll probably ask you to sign some sort of non disclosure agreement first.

Specs for power output and power consumption will vary depending upon which reference U are looking at:
USA website
Euro website
Operation manual
Service manual
Rear panel
These specs are largely driven by the destination market...
Note that the USA/Canada AVR market share is about 50%, Euro AVR market share is about 30% and the rest of the world makes up the rest. Note that for power consumption this is changing significantly as CE(standard for Europe) is tightening up on power consumption disclosures especially in the stand-by mode. This is where the Eco-Mode feature came from, and the brand doesn't want too many versions sold world-wide so they try to standarize for most efficient production, while satisfying their biggest markets and respective unique safety standards.. In Europe, CE requires an AVR to turn OFF after 4 hours if no input signal is seen. This is where the Eco-mode came from, plus they are requiring lower and lower power consumption when in the stand-by mode. Europe is way ahead of North America for becoming more green, even their internal carton packings are now bio-degradable rather than the harder styrofoam end-caps that doesn't break down well in the landfills.

Regarding power output specs..
Check the following:
Yamaha AV Euro site for RX-A2080
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a2080/specs.html#product-tabs
Rated Power Output(1kHz, 1ch driven): 220W(4 ohms, 0.9%THD)
Yamaha AV USA site for RX-A2080
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a2080_u/specs.html#product-tabs
Rated Power Output(1kHz, 2ch driven): 155W(8 ohms, 0.9%THD)

So here U can see the Euro version has a higher, publishable power output spec..

Bottom line..
The more advanced, larger markets each have their own unique safety approval standards which are changing while smaller markets lag behind in changing their specification and approval standards. It is not meant to be more confusing, but presently these safety standards are undergoing certain local updates.

Just my $0.02...

 

[PENG]

Specs for power output and power consumption will vary depending upon which reference U are looking at:
USA website
Euro website
Operation manual
Service manual
Rear panel
These specs are largely driven by the destination market...
Note that the USA/Canada AVR market share is about 50%, Euro AVR market share is about 30% and the rest of the world makes up the rest. Note that for power consumption this is changing significantly as CE(standard for Europe) is tightening up on power consumption disclosures especially in the stand-by mode. This is where the Eco-Mode feature came from, and the brand doesn't want too many versions sold world-wide so they try to standarize for most efficient production, while satisfying their biggest markets and respective unique safety standards.. In Europe, CE requires an AVR to turn OFF after 4 hours if no input signal is seen. This is where the Eco-mode came from, plus they are requiring lower and lower power consumption when in the stand-by mode. Europe is way ahead of North America for becoming more green, even their internal carton packings are now bio-degradable rather than the harder styrofoam end-caps that doesn't break down well in the landfills.

Regarding power output specs..
Check the following:
Yamaha AV Euro site for RX-A2080
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a2080/specs.html#product-tabs
Rated Power Output(1kHz, 1ch driven): 220W(4 ohms, 0.9%THD)
Yamaha AV USA site for RX-A2080
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a2080_u/specs.html#product-tabs
Rated Power Output(1kHz, 2ch driven): 155W(8 ohms, 0.9%THD)

So here U can see the Euro version has a higher, publishable power output spec..

Bottom line..
The more advanced, larger markets each have their own unique safety approval standards which are changing while smaller markets lag behind in changing their specification and approval standards. It is not meant to be more confusing, but presently these safety standards are undergoing certain local updates.

Just my $0.02...

I have no idea what your response is about, of course they will have different numbers for different standards/rules they need to or want to follow, but thanks for trying regardless.

My point is not about such variations for the reasons stated, but about the lack of information in terms of qualifiers, test conditions, limits, or any hidden details/caveats that such numbers are based or tested on. I do browse their European websites, manuals etc. now and then, and found the info provided there are equally ambiguous and no better. The power consumption specs provided in their owner's manual are not very meaningful, without stating the test/load conditions, at the very minimum.

If they follow a certain standard(s)/rule(s) (e.g. FTC),then they should say so, and then we can purchase a copy of the standard(s) or rule(s) to find out what the test conditions are. Even if they provide the reference standard(s) and/or test conditions, it will be nice if they also provide the maximum consumption when the unit is driven to it's rated maximum output (regardless of number of channels, just "maximum" period, at a specified reasonable THD, say 1%, not 10%. To save people from guessing, I don't think it is too much to ask for them to at least say something like:

Power consumption: 500 W according to XYZ standard, 800 W maximum at rated output of 550 W total (whatever the conditions is for maximum total output) into 8 ohm at <1 % THD. A good standard/rule should require the unit to be tested for both maximum output at a stated THD and duration; and the corresponding power consumption measured under the same test conditions, but I realize that would be a tall order that will never happen.

Obviously there are a great number of combinations between 1,2,3,4......1 channel driven simultaneously with any channels at rated output plus any number of other channels at less than rated output, but then I would be asking too much, so I won't. Just give me one that follows some reputable and widely accepted standard(s),as well as a well defined "maximum", of either rated output or power consumption (preferably both) and I'll be much happier.