How many Watts is your system?

WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
wire said:
I agree with this post .
Dont be fooled by better this and that . It still comes down to the power supply . Separates will always kick the recievers , unless your reciever weighs 50 or more lbs .
You can not use weight as a reliable method for estimating power output capability. At less then 50lbs, the Behringer EP2500 amplifier outputs a measured 2,100-2,400 watts(depending on frequency), unclipped, into 4 ohms.

-Chris
 
wire

wire

Senior Audioholic
WmAx said:
You can not use weight as a reliable method for estimating power output capability. At less then 50lbs, the Behringer EP2500 amplifier outputs a measured 2,100-2,400 watts(depending on frequency), unclipped, into 4 ohms.

-Chris
Its a the best measuring stick out there (95 % of the time) . You are talking a Pro amp with a fan to cool it , i dont see a fan in the pic for the Kenwood . You here Mosfets and other crap from salesmen , the teck in Amps have not changed that much since i bought my Bryston or Carver , the power supply will allow your amp to power your speakers .
I have a Bryston 4b , Carver 35x and a Onix sp3 , all are very heavy , the Carver is the least of the 3 , all pump clean power and live up to there ratings .

Just look at the pics are of 5 channels or more , a channel amp (or any) vs a that 5 channel kenwood ( or anything in its class ) , which do you think is more weight ( the power supply will be most of the weight ) .
I have to agree with Seth all the way .
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I chose the Kenwood as an example because it was a perfectly pathetic receiver. It make me laugh just looking at the thing, with its puny 7 lb. or so power supply and the cute little capacitors. And the stupid non-discrete output stage with the massive transistors just kills me. Then the Thule has two toridial power supplies, 8 hefty capacitors, and 18 transistors.

Heavier is becoming less and less common, especially with these new digital amplifiers, they are light and run very cool (efficient). Cheaper digital amps in receivers don't sound the best and I have yet to see a case were a digital amp could rival a standard transistor analog amp at a similar price.

wire, I to have a Carver amp, the AV-505 five channel amp. It sure packs a wallop with it's 80 watts per channel, wouldn't put any Sonys up to it, not even the ES Sony receivers.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ale_Bass_Freak said:
can anyone give me an idea of what i can get for more or less 1000$ for music and movies ...more for music (techno, dance, electronica, trance)..id like to get us much thunderous bass as possible
SVS subwoofers provide you with lots of bass for not as much as the B&W subs. But keep the 600 series in mind for your speakers.
 
wire

wire

Senior Audioholic
Seth=L said:
I chose the Kenwood as an example because it was a perfectly pathetic receiver. It make me laugh just looking at the thing, with its puny 7 lb. or so power supply and the cute little capacitors. And the stupid non-discrete output stage with the massive transistors just kills me. Then the Thule has two toridial power supplies, 8 hefty capacitors, and 18 transistors.

Heavier is becoming less and less common, especially with these new digital amplifiers, they are light and run very cool (efficient). Cheaper digital amps in receivers don't sound the best and I have yet to see a case were a digital amp could rival a standard transistor analog amp at a similar price.

wire, I to have a Carver amp, the AV-505 five channel amp. It sure packs a wallop with it's 80 watts per channel, wouldn't put any Sonys up to it, not even the ES Sony receivers.
Nice Seth
I one day would like to get a AV 505 or higher . but would like to travel right now :) .
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
WmAx said:
You can not use weight as a reliable method for estimating power output capability. At less then 50lbs, the Behringer EP2500 amplifier outputs a measured 2,100-2,400 watts(depending on frequency), unclipped, into 4 ohms.

-Chris
Well, that's only because the EP2500 uses a jet turbine engine to cool the outputs rather than massive heat sinks. I think weight can be used if the unit is not relying on massive amounts of forced air to keep the unit from overheating. Substitute price for weight, and I'll agree with you. The EP2500, unless placed in another room, is a bit too noisy (fan) for HT/home audio operation.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
wire said:
Its a the best measuring stick out there (95 % of the time) . You are talking a Pro amp with a fan to cool it , i dont see a fan in the pic for the Kenwood . You here Mosfets and other crap from salesmen , the teck in Amps have not changed that much since i bought my Bryston or Carver , the power supply will allow your amp to power your speakers .
I have a Bryston 4b , Carver 35x and a Onix sp3 , all are very heavy , the Carver is the least of the 3 , all pump clean power and live up to there ratings .

Just look at the pics are of 5 channels or more , a channel amp (or any) vs a that 5 channel kenwood ( or anything in its class ) , which do you think is more weight ( the power supply will be most of the weight ) .
I have to agree with Seth all the way .
Then to be fair, I'll use the heatsink-cooled, class AB, Behringer A500 as an example. 18lbs and it outputs 220 watts x 2(440 Watts), measured, without clipping, into a 4 ohm load. Two of them is only 36lbs. :) It should not be difficult to get a true 100 x 5 watts, for well below 50 lbs. :)

-Chris
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
3db said:
The metal box that surrounds the power supply in most decent receivers is called a Faraday cage and its purpose is to shield emi from the rest of the analog pre-amp signals. Digital signals are a little more immune to emi than the low level analog signals. In these designs, you would be very hard pressed to here emi interference coming out of your speakers even under no signal conditions and at full volume.
Yep, I agree with everything you said, and am aware of this approach. It is used in computers as well as in amplifiers.

I disagree. The whole a/v chain is as good as it weakest link so if you hooked crap up anywhere in your chain, then your gonna hear crap coming out of your speakers. I think the whole thing revolves around balance and if you have certain quality of speaker, you want to ensure that the rest o fthe chain is of similar quality to get the most out of your system, unless off course, you have a planned upgrade path in mind.
I find that the largest level of Crap is from the speakers themselves. I have heard my speakers on a $400 A/V Receiver Sony Receiver (when they had $400 4Ohm Receivers), and it sounded wonderfully. I also had used a $60 5 disc CD-Changer for the test, and a $100 DVD player. They both sounded amazing.

I really beleive that you should spend ALLOT more on your speakers then on your AMP, or AV Receiver. But I guess this is a case by case situation. I am sure there are some REALLY bad receivers that wouldnt make anything sound good:)

The problem with low quality Amps (or AV receivers) seems to be clipping at high outputs, and not sound quality. These rules change when your talking about more expensive speakers then the Sub $1000 (a pair) speaker ranges I am talking about.

With the digital tech improving in AV receivers and the introduction of distributed digital video with new standards such as HDMI, HD-DVD/BLUE RAY, and the evolution of communication between components that will most certainly come... I beleive that the time is right NOT to spend allot of money on a high end A/V receiver, unless you have the money to upgrade in 4 or 5 years (which I dont).

I acknowledge that my aproach and views are not the only valid ideas out their, and that everyone has to make their own choice... Audio is just like choosing your favorite hamburger:) (see sticky)

WmAx said:
You can not use weight as a reliable method for estimating power output capability. At less then 50lbs, the Behringer EP2500 amplifier outputs a measured 2,100-2,400 watts(depending on frequency), unclipped, into 4 ohms.
You can also use weight as a reliable method of judgeing the mid and base drivers quality. Of course, as with the above example, this only takes you so far.

Maybe the cheaper amps should include a BRICK enclosure that will allow BOSE (and other) salesmen to add BRICKS to their components, to make sure they FEEL like they are high quality. I can just imageine the poor shmo that finds a cinderblock in his "high end" receiver.
 
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Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
WmAx said:
Then to be fair, I'll use the heatsink-cooled, class AB, Behringer A500 as an example. 18lbs and it outputs 220 watts x 2(440 Watts), measured, without clipping, into a 4 ohm load. Two of them is only 36lbs. :) It should not be difficult to get a true 100 x 5 watts, for well below 50 lbs. :)

-Chris
The A500 is 160x2 into 8 ohms at .01% THD, and consumes up to 6.5 amps at 120 volts. It's actually 18.5lbs. ;) Quite a unit for $179 no matter what you put up against it.

And no, it's no match for the EP2500 at 450x2 into 8 ohms and $329 if you can swing some longer cables and stick this one in a separate room.

There's no reason to spend thousands on amplification. The signature sound in a solid state amp should be coming from the pre amp section, not the amp. If the amp is coloring the sound, it's not a transparent amp. One should let the pre amp/eq handle the coloration. If you want tube sound, there's a solution for that as well:http://www.behringer.com/T1951/index.cfm?lang=ENG
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I do not entirely agree with your theory on amplifier coloration and price relation. Generally a cheap amplifier presents colorations to the sound and if you get Krell, or Bryston monoblocks the sound should be fairly neutral. I do agree that the preamp has a profound affect on the amplifier stage. And conscerning receivers you have to consider both parts preamp and amp.

If you consider what a Behringer amp is designed to do and how most of them are built they aren't the best suited for high end home audio.
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
unfortunately you dont even hear the discoloring of the amp abvove the noise the speakers produce that are priced under $600...
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Are you saying that $600 speakers won't pick up on the discolorations, just having problems understanding the statement.
 
Haoleb

Haoleb

Audioholic Field Marshall
When someone ask's me how many watts the stereo is... I just smile and say, Enough ;)
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Good, very good. Of course if I had a 5 watt tube amp I would, with pride, tell eveyone person that asks. "Yea I just got that new Kenwood HTIAB, sucker has 1000watts, so how many watts does your stereo have?" My responce, "Oh about 5 watts x2". :D

I would like to add, your website is awesome. The Plextor thing is pretty cool IMO, even if it doesn't set any standard it still looks neat. I also like the Tube flowers.:)
 
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Haoleb

Haoleb

Audioholic Field Marshall
Seth=L said:
Good, very good. Of course if I had a 5 watt tube amp I would, with pride, tell eveyone person that asks. "Yea I just got that new Kenwood HTIAB, sucker has 1000watts, so how many watts does your stereo have?" My responce, "Oh about 5 watts x2". :D

I would like to add, your website is awesome. The Plextor thing is pretty cool IMO, even if it doesn't set any standard it still looks neat. I also like the Tube flowers.:)

Thanks. I need to update it this weekend though for my latest addition. Replacing the NAD is a pair of Odyssey Khartago Monoblocks.

Like I said, When you have one of these per channel.. its enough :)

Also, If your insterested in the CD-ROM cdp, pm me.
 

Attachments

JoeE SP9

JoeE SP9

Senior Audioholic
GreenJelly said:
Music CD's tend to be very even in their sound. They tend to not have extreme highs and lows. The volume tends to be very constant. Their are exceptions. I can point to some recordings of the 1812 Overture that are very constant until the cannons jump in. Then things start getting much louder.

Movies are different. They tend to have low voices and dialog then yank up the volume on the action and other sounds. I like this:)
That constant volume is called compression ie: lack of dynamic range. That's what's wrong with most of todays popular recordings. They have processed the life out of them. Compare the CD and LP of Red Hot Chili Pepper's latest release. The LP was mastered by Steve Hoffman and sounds like it came from a different reality compared to the over compressed, over Eq'd, over processed CD. Fortunately movies have some dynamic range largely because they don't have to compete in a crowded FM band. Radio stations started using compression in order to stand out in that same FM band. Unfortunately the record makers jumped on the wagon. Classical music is usually not compressed. The buyers and listeners of it expect to hear some dynamics.:cool:
 
M

modenar1

Audioholic Intern
so all this talk about high current and efficient amplifiers are more important than the watts ratings. what are a few examples of these effiecient amplifiers or recievers you guys are mentioning. because i am in the market for a integrated amplifier. i dont want to get a amp and a pre amp. i want to get a single unit system. cuz i will not need a 200 watt amplifier. 60-80 watts is good enough for my usage. and i would like the most efficient amplifier there is at that range.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Ifyou really want an answer. post a price range.

modenar1 said:
so all this talk about high current and efficient amplifiers are more important than the watts ratings. what are a few examples of these effiecient amplifiers or recievers you guys are mentioning. because i am in the market for a integrated amplifier. i dont want to get a amp and a pre amp. i want to get a single unit system. cuz i will not need a 200 watt amplifier. 60-80 watts is good enough for my usage. and i would like the most efficient amplifier there is at that range.
But, off the top of my head, I' d suggest NAD, Marantz or a few others.
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
Yamaha and Denon have stereo receivers that meet your specs and budget.

Nick
 
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