How important are the new HD audio formats in a new AVR?

[auujay]

So I am finally going to be jumping on the HD bandwagon (likely a 50" panny plasma) and therefore I will be upgrading my cheap receiver that does not even support component video to something that gives me HDMI.

I am trying to keep costs as low as possible (<500 USD) for the receiver so I have been looking at various deals on refurbs which leads to my real question. A few of the older AVRs I am looking at do not support the new hi-def audio formats found on Bluray. Should this concern me; is it stupid to replace my old receiver with one that will not decode these?

I realize if I went this route it would mean that when I end up getting a Bluray player it will need to do the hi-def audio decoding in the player and then pass the decoded signal to my receiver. Does this affect the sound quality in any real way? If I had an AVR that was doing this decoding would it sound better?

My other thought is that as more and more Blueray players come out, do more of them support this decoding or is it restricted to the more expensive models?

 

[Highbar]

It depends. The majority of players will decode the formats, it's more of a question if they have analog outs or just send the decode material over the HDMI. If you get a player that has analog outs all you need is multi channel inputs on your receiver and you'll get the new codecs, as long as you don't mind running HDMI straight to the TV you'd be fine. Now if you get a player that just uses the HDMI for multi channel out you at least need a receiver that can except audio over HDMI.

For the price of the new Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer and Denon's I'd just get one that does the decoding. They aren't that much more expensive.

 

[Kai]

It depends on who you talk to. Some say there is a big difference listening to the new audio codecs compared to the older ones. Other say not so much. I think it depends on more than just the codecs. You have to factor in the room's listening environment...speaker placement, acoustics, etc..., speakers...how many, placement and quality...,etc. The receiver also plays a role. Is is a quality receiver with a good power supply, etc. or a very inexpensive receiver that uses cheap components that do a poor job of producing sound.

Your best bet would be to do some comparison auditioning. If you can hear a big difference then keep it. If the difference is negligible either don't get the receiver or get a better one.

Keep us informed on what you do as this is an interesting topic.

 

[Pyrrho]

So I am finally going to be jumping on the HD bandwagon (likely a 50" panny plasma) and therefore I will be upgrading my cheap receiver that does not even support component video to something that gives me HDMI.

I am trying to keep costs as low as possible (<500 USD) for the receiver so I have been looking at various deals on refurbs which leads to my real question. A few of the older AVRs I am looking at do not support the new hi-def audio formats found on Bluray. Should this concern me; is it stupid to replace my old receiver with one that will not decode these?

I realize if I went this route it would mean that when I end up getting a Bluray player it will need to do the hi-def audio decoding in the player and then pass the decoded signal to my receiver. Does this affect the sound quality in any real way? If I had an AVR that was doing this decoding would it sound better?

My other thought is that as more and more Blueray players come out, do more of them support this decoding or is it restricted to the more expensive models?

Since you can get the new formats for less than $500 in a receiver, I think there is no good reason to buy a receiver without them, given that that is your price limit.

Some Blu-ray players decode some of the new formats, and some decode them both into multichannel PCM (to be sent via HDMI only) and multichannel analog (via multiple RCA type connectors), but some only do one of these. Given the tendency for the decoders to be increasingly common in receivers, my guess is that in the future, fewer players will have built in decoders, as there is no sense in having them in both the player and the receiver.

Also, if it is built into the receiver, the setup will be easier, as you will just set the balance and so forth in the receiver, and need not deal with a separate setup from the audio in the Blu-Ray player, which would probably be necessary if one is using multichannel analog connections. Also, players may not have the same ease of setup, as most decent receivers these days have a microphone and automatic setup; I know of no player that will be that easy to set up. So even though there should be no difference in quality between having it decoded in the receiver or the player, there is a good chance that there will be a difference in practice, as the setup options are more likely to be limited and more difficult with using decoders in a player. The multichannel PCM HDMI would probably not be a problem, but, still, I see no reason to not get the decoders built into the receiver at this point in time.

So, again, if it were me, I would absolutely not even consider a receiver that would not decode the new formats, unless I was so poor that I could not afford one that could do this. And even then, if I already had a receiver that decoded Dolby Digital, I would just keep what I had until I could afford a receiver that could decode the new formats. But given your price range, that isn't applicable to you.

 

[CraigV]

Another consideration to make is this; Once bitten by the audio bug, upgrading becomes a way of life. You may want to consider buying an AVR that has pre-amp out as an option. That way, if you decide you need a beefier amp section in the future, instead of replacing the AVR, you can just buy an external amp.

If in the future more codecs become available, you can just replace the AVR for a reasonable cost, whereas a good solid state amplifier will be with you for years.

A good start now would be one generation old Yamaha V663. It does all the current codecs and has a good amplifier section to get you started, and will allow for the addition of a power amp in the future, if you decide to got hat route.

 

[GlocksRock]

If you get a blu ray player that can internally decode the new audio formats, then your avr doesn't need to as long as it can accept PCM, which as long as you make sure your avr supports HDMI audio, and doesn't just pass it through to the display, you should be ok. But I would get one anyway just to be more future proofed.

 

[MatthewB.]

For 500.00 I would get an Onkyo 805 at Shoponkyo, it would solve all your problems, have a beasty amp that will be more than enough to drive your speakers, have 3 HDMI ins and one out and decode the new lossless formats. ShopOnkyo has them on their site all the time, so if they don't have any today, check back in a few days and they will have more.

 

[lsiberian]

I take the opposite approach as many folks here. I believe in Bang for buck.

Get the receiver with the Best bang for your buck. I have a PS3 and taxes to pay So I sold my 705 and got an HK AVR 247.

Bottom line make sure your receiver has HDMI repeating for audio.

next step up. Look for Pre-Amp outs

next step up. Look for Audyssey setup

next step up. Look for all formats and THX.

Beyond this start considering a pre-pro setup.

As far as sound quality difference. Spend all your money on your subs and Center channel or LRs for home theater. Don't waste funds on a fancy receiver until you have the subs and speakers you want.

 

[jliedeka]

I think it is worthwhile to be able to decode the HD formats in the receiver. The sound quality will vary for the above reasons plus it varies from disc to disc. That said, on some discs the difference is pretty clear.

Normally I'd agree with the advice to upgrade speakers first but I was in your situation and went with the receiver first. I wanted to be able to decode the audio on BDs. Plus I can use HDMI for everything but my turntable. That simplifies cable management.

Jim

 

[Kai]

A $500 receiver is not a low ball receiver by any means. It is probably the start of the mid-range level of receiver and offer a good degree of quality and features for the money.

All the major players offer a receiver in the $500 price range that will do everything you want. Matched with a Blu-ray player will give you a great HT experience over your Panny tv.

You will have hardware that will decode all the latest codecs and "should" make the audio experience of a Blu-ray movie better. But that "better" may not be as much as hoped depending on the speakers and one of the reasons for my initial reply.
Good quality speakers make up the final part of the formula for a good HT and will enhance the new codecs but will also make the older versions of Dolby and DTS sound very good as well. It really depends on what you perceive as you listen. Some may notice a big difference others may not or may not feel the difference is worth the added cost of buying the new receiver when they can get a very good sound by putting that money towards very good speakers.

Again, this is a very interesting topic so keep us informed and enjoy the experience.

 

[bborzell]

I wonder if we are all talking about the same HD codecs and implementation. While DTS-Master Audio, for example, can be output from a BD player via multichannel analog, it is my understanding that there is some loss in the process; 7.1 goes to 5.1 and only the "core" is utilized.

That same audio source being output via HDMI will utilize discrete 7.1 channels and the "extras" that serve to replicate all that was originally produced in the studio, i.e., the "Master" in Master Audio.

If my understanding is correct, then the question of whether or not to upgrade a pre/pro or AVR that does not have HDMI might be a bit more complex to answer than simply hooking up multichannel analog and figuring you are home free with respect to the "new" HD formats.

Now whether the current difference between what one would hear using M/C analog (DTS-core) and HDMI (DTS-MA) is another question, although I would guess that it won't be long before utilizing the full capability of DTS-MA and Dolby-HD will become the norm for film makers.

 

[lsiberian]

I wonder if we are all talking about the same HD codecs and implementation. While DTS-Master Audio, for example, can be output from a BD player via multichannel analog, it is my understanding that there is some loss in the process; 7.1 goes to 5.1 and only the "core" is utilized.

That same audio source being output via HDMI will utilize discrete 7.1 channels and the "extras" that serve to replicate all that was originally produced in the studio, i.e., the "Master" in Master Audio.

If my understanding is correct, then the question of whether or not to upgrade a pre/pro or AVR that does not have HDMI might be a bit more complex to answer than simply hooking up multichannel analog and figuring you are home free with respect to the "new" HD formats.

Now whether the current difference between what one would hear using M/C analog (DTS-core) and HDMI (DTS-MA) is another question, although I would guess that it won't be long before utilizing the full capability of DTS-MA and Dolby-HD will become the norm for film makers.

Your understanding is flawed.
Analog outs are just as good as HDMI cables sonically speaking. HDMI is just less cable to manage. This is an important feature in many racks including my open one.

The HD formats quality depends largely on the movie. Some are excellent, others stink. One good soundtrack IMO is War.

 

[auujay]

Update

It sounds like getting a receiver with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding makes sense.

What is people's experience with the new Audyssey Dynamic Volumne feature? It sounds pretty cool, loud commercials are a pet peeve of mine. With more and more AVRs adding this I wonder if it is something to look for in a new one?

Currently the receivers I am looking at are:
Denon AVR-1909
Onkyo TX-SR606
Onkyo TX-SR607 (when this comes out, basically the only feature I care about is Audyssey Dynamic Volume)
Yamaha RX-V665

Do you guys have any other favorites I should be looking at?

 

[PENG]

While DTS-Master Audio, for example, can be output from a BD player via multichannel analog, it is my understanding that there is some loss in the process; 7.1 goes to 5.1 and only the "core" is utilized.

That could be the case for some older BD. The newer ones (say since 2008) can do full HD sound via the 7.1 analog outs. Some may not be able to do DTS-MA when they first came out, but most, if not all of them will be able to do it via firmware update.