How important are cables?

Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
1,207 1
#21
ROFL!

Fierce, stick around, I like your style.

I used to work at BB and if you didn't recommend monster with EVERY purchase, you, well, ended up like me; fired.

SheepStar
 
J

JAD2

I listen with my mouth open...
Ratings
1 1
#22
I was a customer at CC and was escorted to the door and told not to return over a cable incident.
A husband and wife team had just picked out a surround, DVD player and a Plasma TV and the salesman was getting all his cables he was TOLD HE NEEDED.The wife was asking whats wrong with the ones that come with them, sales guy told him QUALITY, you get what you pay for after they are allready dropping $5K plus. I stepped in said, nothing wrong with them at all, he just wants a high sales for whatever and the sales guy kinda told me to scram. The wife was interest in what I had to say and said go on. I said h*ll, he is screwing you on the TV also, whys that she says. Look the TV you are gonna purchase is hooked ip with those so called sh*t cables to a DVD player set on HDMI. She says hey, then those cables do work, I said not only that, but the TV you liked cause it had a better overall cosmetic appearance to her was hooked up normal 75 ohm cable. I said if that was hooked up to a DVD player on HDMI, it would look just as good, maybe better, but they want that extra $1K. By that time the sales guy had gotten the manager as I was explaining how the TV's were all hooked up different depending on the price range and mark up and was scooted toward the door. That women came up and said thanks, shook my hand ant thanked me again and she was dragging her husband out the store to TALK ABOUT IT!! He was sold on it and I had told her were locally she could get the same things much cheaper, a online net store locally that has a small retail outlet to the general public. She asked why I was at CC, I said to listen and look then go there. See you cant see his stuff all setup!!!
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
1,207 1
#24
JAD2 said:
I was a customer at CC and was escorted to the door and told not to return over a cable incident.
A husband and wife team had just picked out a surround, DVD player and a Plasma TV and the salesman was getting all his cables he was TOLD HE NEEDED.The wife was asking whats wrong with the ones that come with them, sales guy told him QUALITY, you get what you pay for after they are allready dropping $5K plus. I stepped in said, nothing wrong with them at all, he just wants a high sales for whatever and the sales guy kinda told me to scram. The wife was interest in what I had to say and said go on. I said h*ll, he is screwing you on the TV also, whys that she says. Look the TV you are gonna purchase is hooked ip with those so called sh*t cables to a DVD player set on HDMI. She says hey, then those cables do work, I said not only that, but the TV you liked cause it had a better overall cosmetic appearance to her was hooked up normal 75 ohm cable. I said if that was hooked up to a DVD player on HDMI, it would look just as good, maybe better, but they want that extra $1K. By that time the sales guy had gotten the manager as I was explaining how the TV's were all hooked up different depending on the price range and mark up and was scooted toward the door. That women came up and said thanks, shook my hand ant thanked me again and she was dragging her husband out the store to TALK ABOUT IT!! He was sold on it and I had told her were locally she could get the same things much cheaper, a online net store locally that has a small retail outlet to the general public. She asked why I was at CC, I said to listen and look then go there. See you cant see his stuff all setup!!!
Most deserving of a chicklet EVER!

I agree, Rock out with your.... Cable out. :D

SheepStar
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#26
Here are the basic criteria for the cables:

1) is the impedance range proper for the application (in even t of a fiber optic cable, is the fiber element the right size for the bandwidth signal....pretty much you will be hard pressed to find a fiber line outside of spec, so this is moot in the case of fiber optics)

2) are the connections the proper typre for your gear

3) is the cable assembled consistantly and properly?

4) is it adequately shielded

if the first 3 is met, then it's a good cable. If all 4 is met, then it's a "perfect" cable...no need to think about it further.

For analog audio, there is no set spec for impedance, so I just shoot for 75-80ohm cable and call it done.

Given you can break down impedance into RLC and go hog-wild picking it apart from there, but I don't see the need to unless your speakers cost as much as a new car.
 
B

billnchristy

Senior Audioholic
Ratings
16
#27
another cable question

Given a decently sized room (16x24) would you rather:

a) have speaker cables at a longer length
b) have other interconnects (component, optical etc...) at the longer length
 
markw

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,825 7 162
#28
Ya missed one, Steve.

mustang_steve said:
Here are the basic criteria for the cables:

1) is the impedance range proper for the application (in even t of a fiber optic cable, is the fiber element the right size for the bandwidth signal....pretty much you will be hard pressed to find a fiber line outside of spec, so this is moot in the case of fiber optics)

2) are the connections the proper typre for your gear

3) is the cable assembled consistantly and properly?

4) is it adequately shielded

if the first 3 is met, then it's a good cable. If all 4 is met, then it's a "perfect" cable...no need to think about it further.

For analog audio, there is no set spec for impedance, so I just shoot for 75-80ohm cable and call it done.

Given you can break down impedance into RLC and go hog-wild picking it apart from there, but I don't see the need to unless your speakers cost as much as a new car.
0) Is it long enough? :D
 
J

JaceTheAce

Audioholic
Ratings
1
#29
krabapple said:
JAD, you're the chain stores' worst nightmare. Rock on!

:D
AAAAH YEAH!!! :D That's right, and we need more ex-Best Buy employees like Sheep to work at CC.
 
FierceTIMbo17

FierceTIMbo17

Audioholic
#30
JaceTheAce said:
AAAAH YEAH!!! :D That's right, and we need more ex-Best Buy employees like Sheep to work at CC.
circuit city is doomed best buy is going to put them out of business in no time, notice they are trying to adopt everything best buy does, geek squad higher end home theater and services. Its going to be a valiant effort but i doubt we see CC around in 5 years, they are not even considered a serious competitor of BB ne more.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
380
#31
I don't like any of the big chain stores. I only go into Best Buy and Circuit City to look once in a while. I buy everything online or at local small stores.
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#32
markw said:
0) Is it long enough? :D
:p I've made that mistake as well while making some of my own...I got mixed up and thought one pair was 4ft the other 5ft, when I needed two 4.5ft pairs :(

...at least one was easy enough to fix...the other...well it was around $1-something in wasted cable :p
 
N

ninjamini

Audiophyte
#33
Well there are so many things wrong with this thread. Let me set it straight.

First Best Buy is a non commission store who just tells things as they know them. They are just like doctors. They have an opinion. For good or bad they have one. If you go blindly looking for an opinion for something you want to buy and you go to a person making $9 an hour....well...perhaps they really know there stuff and perhaps they don't. They just tell it as they know it. Now understand that Monster sends reps in to every Best buy store and Circuit store to sell there product. Since the cheap cable company does not do that and the TV company is in the business of selling TV and does not care about cables...well you know know where the Best Buy kid gets his info.

Is the Monster cable better...YES IT IS. Well in the lab that is. The only difference is can you tell a difference and do you care.

In the Analog world (thats speaker cable and RCA cabels (Those red/white left right cables)) it does make a difference. Better woven threads and better insulation will transmit a better cleaner signal with less noise.

A Digital cable sends a signal and either it gets there or it does not. You cannot color a digital signal with noise. You can and will get errors in a digital signal. There is always error correction in a digital signal and you probably wont notice it. If you do notice it you will get blocking and popping. Thing DirecTV in heavy rain.

The only change to this rule is on a optical cable like toslink. It can cause coloration and these cables should be treated with care.

SO IN CONCLUSION:

Buy good analog cable, OK digital cable and only use toslink when nessicarry.

Now as a caviat I buy monster cable and I like the stuff. I am a sucker for good marketing and I like the cool blue that the cables come in.

Buy what you like and if there is a sucker out there spending $300 on a cable at bestbuy let them. That will give BB the profit to do better sales. Besides I have had a lot of friends proud to show me the $150 cable they bought. Remember that warm fuzzy feeling is part of the buying experience.

That concluded my rambling.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
863
#34
ninjamini said:
Is the Monster cable better...YES IT IS. Well in the lab that is. The only difference is can you tell a difference and do you care.
.
Lots of sites have tested Monster and other cables extensively. In some cases they perform on par with lesser known brands and in some cases they are far inferior. You cannot make a blanket statement that Monster is better.

In the Analog world (thats speaker cable and RCA cabels (Those red/white left right cables)) it does make a difference. Better woven threads and better insulation will transmit a better cleaner signal with less noise.
To the extent that you actually have a noisy environment better shielding is always a plus but once again you cannot say that lesser known or cheaper brands don't have adequate shielding and won't perform flawlessly.

A Digital cable sends a signal and either it gets there or it does not. You cannot color a digital signal with noise. You can and will get errors in a digital signal. There is always error correction in a digital signal and you probably wont notice it. If you do notice it you will get blocking and popping. Thing DirecTV in heavy rain.
Every statement there is false except the fact that it is possible to have errors. There is no error correction in the s/pdif protocol. Dropouts from cable or satellite are caused by the data rate not being sufficient due to any number of reasons, not 'noise'.

The only change to this rule is on a optical cable like toslink. It can cause coloration and these cables should be treated with care.
If you 'cannot color a digital signal with noise' then how can toslink cables cause coloration? Toslink cables are optical instead of electrical - the protocol is the same. The physical interface is subject to different issues than with coax but they both work equally well.

SO IN CONCLUSION:
So in conclusion you are subject to the same myths and fallacies as anyone else...
 
FierceTIMbo17

FierceTIMbo17

Audioholic
#35
ninjamini said:
First Best Buy is a non commission store who just tells things as they know them. They are just like doctors. They have an opinion. For good or bad they have one. If you go blindly looking for an opinion for something you want to buy and you go to a person making $9 an hour....well...perhaps they really know there stuff and perhaps they don't. They just tell it as they know it. Now understand that Monster sends reps in to every Best buy store and Circuit store to sell there product. Since the cheap cable company does not do that and the TV company is in the business of selling TV and does not care about cables...well you know know where the Best Buy kid gets his info.

.
Compeltely false in all of best buy esp Magnolia they are all about making revenue, they may not get comission but their job depends on how much money they make for the company, their policy is more you sell the more hours you get. So techincally they are kinda on commission since they are dependent on their performance
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
2,131 5 6
#36
ninjamini said:
... They are just like doctors. They have an opinion.
ninjamini said:
You mean they are college graduates with multiple degrees? Many years of rigorous training in electronics and engineering?
No, they are not like doctors by any stretch of your imagination. If you wanted to use and imply opinions, you should have just stated that everyone has one, like the proverbial dark place on the body.
I suppose you go to a faith healer when you feel ill??? Take homeopathic nonsense?

Now understand that Monster sends reps in to every Best buy store and Circuit store to sell there product. Since the cheap cable company does not do that and the TV company is in the business of selling TV and does not care about cables...

TV company doesn't care about cables? Are you serious? Oh, you mean about those snake oil laden, high priced cables?

Is the Monster cable better...YES IT IS. Well in the lab that is.

You have specs that reflects this?

In the Analog world (thats speaker cable and RCA cabels (Those red/white left right cables)) it does make a difference. Better woven threads and better insulation will transmit a better cleaner signal with less noise.

Oh, this is from that Monster salesman? LOL.


The only change to this rule is on a optical cable like toslink. It can cause coloration and these cables should be treated with care.

HUH??? It is a digital pulse with light. How does it color anything? Nonsense.

Now as a caviat I buy monster cable and I like the stuff. I am a sucker for good marketing and I like the cool blue that the cables come in.

Nothing wrong with a preference as that is what you are expressing, honestly.

Buy what you like and if there is a sucker out there spending $300 on a cable at bestbuy let them.

Why??? So that nonsense is further promulgated? The bs goes on, the voodoo becomes urban legend with no end in sight to reality???

That will give BB the profit to do better sales.

Better sales, or just more of the same??? You mean they would stock it with less expensive cables that work just as well, eventually???

Remember that warm fuzzy feeling is part of the buying experience.


No, I don't remember that. It would run chills down my spine if i discover snake oil was sold to me.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
119
#37
ninjamini: Is the Monster cable better...YES IT IS. Well in the lab that is. The only difference is can you tell a difference and do you care.

I am a sucker for good marketing and I like the cool blue that the cables come in.

Buy what you like and if there is a sucker out there spending $300 on a cable at bestbuy let them. That will give BB the profit to do better sales.
Best Buy is a good reason this site exists. To prevent ignorance and suckers - no offense. ;)

Check out the premium cables here and compare the prices to Monster.

http://www.cablewholesale.com/catalog/componentvideocable.htm

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7426421&type=product&id=1122655461074
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#38
They are right about most hardware makers not caring about the cables, since it's expected that TV cables, digital cables, etc are all the right impedance, and connector type. That's it. Noise is a environmental issue, and fixable by the consumer through a shielded cable and proper cable layout.

TOSlink is not susceptable to noise...period. It's an enclosed beam of light...how is electrical noise going to interfere with light. That's like saying my walkman can interfere with fire. I work with fiber as part of my job, making telecom/network equipment. It IS the most noise-proof form of communication in exsistance.

Audio fiber has the advantage of using polymer fibers due to their low bandwidth...so fiber breakage is not much of an issue. In communications, we use glass fiber, which can break if bent too far.

Only downside to TOSlink is signal strength over distance. long runs is a bad thing, since light can only go so far, especially at the lower power levels that consumer electronics use.

Binary is binary...no way around that.

one argument I have heard is the chance for errors during the electrical/optical conversion process. I have not experienced this, even on bottom bucket electronics, and don't buy this argument one bit.


edit: oh, and clean TOSlink connectors and cables are crucial...ALWAYS ALWAYS **ALWAYS** cap off the connector and the tip of the cable when nothing is connected to them. Keep all caps in zip-lock baggies or a small tupperware bin to ensure they themselves do not become contaminated.
 

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