how far can right and left speakers be apart?

[smooth2222]

Are you talking 5.1 or 7.1?

5.1 front room is 18 x 18

 

[smooth2222]

Yes, sitting on a couch on the back wall is about as bad as it gets, for uneven frequency response.

room is 18 x 18, really not that much room to move it foward with all the other furniture, so reallly don't have a choice.

 

[TLS Guy]

room is 18 x 18, really not that much room to move it foward with all the other furniture, so reallly don't have a choice.

First the room is horrible because it is square. If you sit at the back of that room, all you will get is boom.

You just can't sit 18 ft away from a set of speakers. This situation is so bad it is not even worth installing the equipment.

You need to set you speakers 10 to 12 ft apart, and be back 10 to 12 ft, with the surrounds just behind. Anything else is pointless and a waste of funds.

With those room dimensions you will almost certainly need some bass traps.

Post photos and we will rearrange your furniture.

 

[smooth2222]

First the room is horrible because it is square. If you sit at the back of that room, all you will get is boom.

You just can't sit 18 ft away from a set of speakers. This situation is so bad it is not even worth installing the equipment..

brutal just brutal lol

 

[j_garcia]

A bit harsh, but not off the mark. You've pretty much taken the worst scenario room and setup the system with a few key decisions that place your listening position and speakers in the locations that will harm the sound the most. To be honest though, these are common mistakes.

 

[lsiberian]

brutal just brutal lol

Don't be discouraged though. We can help you fix up the room really good.

You'll want to treat the room. I'd start by treating each corner because it's easy to make look good and it makes things a bit better for sure.

I'd then use a mirror to find the first order reflection and treat those. Then treat the back wall.

 

[chris357]

I'd then use a mirror to find the first order reflection and treat those. Then treat the back wall.

can you explain this more?

not to hijack this thread but its going in this direction and I'm jumping on the grenade to show that even a genius like me with great equipment makes the same mistake

anyway my room is 18.5 x 18.5 8 ft cieling with a 9.5 ft vaultone side(the left) is open for a stair case and hallway (this room is a loft)

I have my speakers in the corners and my chair is 2/3rds back in the center. now probably accidentally I get great sound and an awesome sound stage. and just recently I made 2 bass traps /room treatments I used 4in thick mineral wool and made a 2'x4' frame and used this fabric outside and burlap as backing. and I have for now placed them on the floor right behind my main speakers. I have noticed more definition in the bass not to mention everything seems a little cleaner... however I'm the guy who also thought his power cable made a difference too so it seems i'm easily suggestable .. yes i can listen and learn and be honest with myself

where should i put the 2 treatments I have ? and how many more do you think I need.. however these are pretty heavy and i'm wanting to do the oc703 so they will be lighter and thinner (more managable)

thank you to all who will chime in.. and it sounds like smooths room is similar so we can kill 2 birds with one stone

 

[Unclepauly]

1/3'rds rule works alot of times.

 

[skers_54]

can you explain this more?

not to hijack this thread but its going in this direction and I'm jumping on the grenade to show that even a genius like me with great equipment makes the same mistake

anyway my room is 18.5 x 18.5 8 ft cieling with a 9.5 ft vaultone side(the left) is open for a stair case and hallway (this room is a loft)

I have my speakers in the corners and my chair is 2/3rds back in the center. now probably accidentally I get great sound and an awesome sound stage. and just recently I made 2 bass traps /room treatments I used 4in thick mineral wool and made a 2'x4' frame and used this fabric outside and burlap as backing. and I have for now placed them on the floor right behind my main speakers. I have noticed more definition in the bass not to mention everything seems a little cleaner... however I'm the guy who also thought his power cable made a difference too so it seems i'm easily suggestable .. yes i can listen and learn and be honest with myself

where should i put the 2 treatments I have ? and how many more do you think I need.. however these are pretty heavy and i'm wanting to do the oc703 so they will be lighter and thinner (more managable)

thank you to all who will chime in.. and it sounds like smooths room is similar so we can kill 2 birds with one stone

The most important locations to treat are the front corners and places where the reflected sound will reach you first (aka first refection points). These points can be found by using a mirror to find the place on the side walls where you can see the reflection of the speakers. Sound will reflect similarly to light for this purpose. These points are important because an uneven off-axis frequency response can degrade the sound quality when the sound reflects off the room boundaries.

OP, it will really help if you can pull your seat even a foot or two off the back wall. It won't make much of a difference from a layout standpoint, but will dramatically increase the clairity of the sound. Placing a broadband absorber (aka room treatment) behind your seat will help a lot and can even enhance aesthetics. I was in a similar situation and these two simple changes resulted in a huge difference in sound quality.

 

[chris357]

i have treatments right behind my front speakers. sort of at an angle. I will be makign more of them in th enext few months.. it did seem to improve bass with the 2 I have.

 

[john72953]

10 to 12 ft apart is optimal. Most members have their speakers far too close together.

I agree that most people have their speakers spaced inadequately close and sometimes in corners (ouch). However, can you tell me what speakers perform at their optimum spread 10-12ft apart. I've heard few and certainly none of the run-of-the-mill type we see so often espoused. Barring a few of the electrostats I've heard, most speakers can't properly deliver an effective imaging and soundstage at that spread, unless extreme toe-in is incorporated.

Can you clarify?

John

 

[Unclepauly]

I always heard 8-10 ft was optimum for most speakers.

 

[lsiberian]

I agree that most people have their speakers spaced inadequately close and sometimes in corners (ouch). However, can you tell me what speakers perform at their optimum spread 10-12ft apart. I've heard few and certainly none of the run-of-the-mill type we see so often espoused. Barring a few of the electrostats I've heard, most speakers can't properly deliver an effective imaging and soundstage at that spread, unless extreme toe-in is incorporated.

Can you clarify?

John

Careful now TLS Guy has speakers in the corners of his room. Of course his are Beautiful custom voiced custom cabinet TLs.

I think Soundstage is best determined by ear. Room/speaker interactions plus the bafffle-step(bass boost) in you speakers crossovers also will influence where you place them. Personally I love to build speakers with no baffle-step and place them directly against the wall. For me it gives a great wide sound stage.

I'm sure others might hate it, but who cares it's my setup.

As far as speaker distance from each other. It depends on how far your sitting from the display. 12 feet is fine if your sitting far enough away.

 

[john72953]

My system has to function as both a 2-channel setup and a HT setup, so I had to give some serious consideration to speaker placement as I didn't want to be moving them around for each function.

I listen to music 90% of the time and I therefore spaced my speakers for optimum performance in a 2-channel setup. Unfortunately, my room dimensions and the traffic flow doesn't allow for further exploration with the space apart and this bothers me. I think they can go wider and would love to have the ability to do so, but I don't.

My Totem Sttaf's are 8' apart from centre-to-centre of each speaker. They are placed in a straight-ahead arrangement and sound superb. Since I can't spread them apart any further I was thinking of employing a TOE-OUT method to see (hear) if improvements could be made. What would be your thoughts on this idea?

John

 

[TLS Guy]

Careful now TLS Guy has speakers in the corners of his room. Of course his are Beautiful custom voiced custom cabinet TLs.

I think Soundstage is best determined by ear. Room/speaker interactions plus the bafffle-step(bass boost) in you speakers crossovers also will influence where you place them. Personally I love to build speakers with no baffle-step and place them directly against the wall. For me it gives a great wide sound stage.

I'm sure others might hate it, but who cares it's my setup.

As far as speaker distance from each other. It depends on how far your sitting from the display. 12 feet is fine if your sitting far enough away.

Ted Jordan is in your corner on that one!

You certainly can make good in wall speakers. My rear speakers are in walls to all intense and purposes, but you can play them as mains and they have a superb sound stage and depth of filed.

My TLs effectively are not in the corner, as the drivers upset by the boundary effect are actually 17 inches from the room boundary. I personally think about 10 to 14 inches from room boundaries is optimal for most speakers.

As far as commercial speakers, the B & W 800 Ds seem to be optimal 10 to 12 feet apart. Anything closer than 10 ft seems too close in my friends room.

I think it is far better to be near boundaries than have the speakers too close. It is hard, if not impossible, to have depth of field with placement closer than 8 ft.

If a speaker can't make a seamless sound stage with good localization in the 8 to 10 ft spacing range, then the design is a dud, and a certain indicator of serious problems.

In my last studio, the speaker spacing was 12 ft, and the sound stage was very accurate. In this studio, it is 9.5 ft, and I wish it could be more.

 

[john72953]

Careful now TLS Guy has speakers in the corners of his room. Of course his are Beautiful custom voiced custom cabinet TLs.

Oops! No offense intended TLS Guy!

John

 

[afterlife2]

Wanted to bump this informative thread for newbies.

 

[Pyrrho]

The desired distance between the front speakers is a function of your distance from the speakers. Different manufacturers give different equations for this. I'm inclined to follow the specific advice from a manufacturer than the general guidelines that can be found on the internet. In the end, though, you'll just want to get the best imaging that you can given your placement constraints.

The owner's manual for the Paradigm Monitor 11 can be downloaded as a PDF file from Paradigm at this link here. Page 4 contains diagrams for recommended speaker placement and distances that are explained on page 7.

I think it is good to consider what the manufacturer has to say about it, as different designs of speakers can have drastically different requirements. Some speakers, for example, are designed to be placed up against a wall, whereas most speakers are better a few feet out. If one has a particularly unusual design, the regular rules are less useful than they ordinarily are. My Apogee Stage speakers have very specific instructions in the manual for how they should be placed, and I have found that the advice therein is correct for these specific speakers. I have tried placing them somewhat differently from what is specified in the manual, and they sound worse when I have done that. (They still sound great, but not as great as they are capable of sounding.)

There are also drastic differences in how close one should be to speakers. Some are "near field" monitors, which sound good close up. My Apogee Stage speakers sound better further out. So placement of the speakers and listening position is not to be found by applying one standard to all cases. Different speakers are designed for different placement, and ignoring the details of the specific speaker under consideration may lead to poor sound. So, pay attention to what the manual states for your specific speakers, and try it. Go ahead and compare with a more "usual" placement, and then place them according to what you think sounds best. But don't just stupidly place them as "usual" and ignore the manufacture's advice, as you may be getting relatively poor sound that way.

 

[zieglj01]

Wanted to bump this informative thread for newbies.

Thanks, I needed that!

Are you bored today?

 

[afterlife2]

No, but I thought for newbies it would be great. The Pioneer 52's manual say distance is same as seating position, so 8 feet apart for me.