how does my setup look? need cable input

[koksy]

I am finally home and decided to I need an upgrade. Aesthetics are very important for me, which has led me to choosing the following speakers, despite reviews of others being much better.

TV: Samsung PS51D579
Receiver: Pioneer VSX 921-K
Speakers: Pioneer S31-LR-QL
Sub: Yamaha SW515 (Not sure if this is good, it's hard finding subs in my country)
Stagepiano: Roland FP-7F
Other: Playstation, Xbox and laptop, all connecting to TV with HDMI

I play piano a lot, so it's important this setup will also give me good sound for this. I don't listen to a lot of music at home, but enjoy watching movies and playing BF3 with the guys.

Now if no one thinks this setup is terrible, my next step is choosing proper quality cables for everything. Everything is within 2-3 meters reach, so cables won't be any longer.

I should stop writing and just ask the questions.
- Is this setup OK?
- What cables do I need for all of this? Colleagues have told me cables don't always follow with speakers and such.
- Is there a cable quality difference I need to be aware of?
- Any recommendations appreciated

 

[agarwalro]

Hi! Welcome to the forum.

First a disclaimer. This forum is geared more for current generation American products than things you will see around EU/GB.

The subwoofer is the weak link in your list, but then again, depending on what you use it for and how big of a room you have, it may just be sufficient. Your setup is what you make of it. If you are happy with the selections, take the time to optimize the layout and calibrate the setup for the room. Since you are a musician, if you are not using headphones and intend to play the Roland through the system, you might want to look into room treatments to alleviate any room born inaccuracies in the sound.

As far as cables are concerned, do not fall into the trap of buying expensive cables. A 100,00Euro/meter speaker cable will not open up the soundstage any better than a 1,00Euro/meter cable that is appropriately selected for gauge vs distance considerations.

Top Ten Signs an Audio Cable Vendor is Selling You Snake Oil

I would recommend moving all HDMI cables from the TV to the Receiver's inputs and taking a single HDMI cable to the TV. If not anything else, it makes life easier since you don't have to change TV inputs as frequently. Other specific recommendations depend on how exactly you want everything connected.

 

[koksy]

wow, that sounds really advanced to me. I don't really know much about sound systems. I tried reading a lot of the articles in the stickies, but there are so many words I don't understand.

Thanks for the input on cables. I'll write another reply later with more questions I just need to fix some stuff. Hope you (and others ) will help me.

 

[koksy]

What should I look for in a sub to make sure it isn't my weakest link?

I am happy with my selection of everything, IF it will provide me with quality sound. I don't want to spend this much money on something that won't be worth it.

As for calibration and optimization I was hoping the pioneer receiver software would help me. I read about it on the website and it sounds promising, but what do I know.

 

[Josuah]

I believe agarwalro is saying your choice of subwoofer is the weak link simply because there are probably better alternatives for the same price. However, the majority of forum readers would probably recommend an online subwoofer company which may not have distribution in Denmark. In which case it may be harder to find a better choice for your money.

That being said, when you stated you play piano, do you mean piano or keyboard? Because you listed a keyboard (i.e. not a real piano) in your list of gear. I don't think you are going to be able to very accurately reproduce a piano based on the price point I think you are aiming for based on your gear list.

 

[koksy]

oh yeah i understand that, but if I just have a few subs to compare to maybe I can find something with equal specs.

As for the piano, it's a stagepiano, so no not a real piano, but not a keyboard either. I calibrated the piano to sound how I like it, but I don't know if that means it will sound good playing from the speakers.

 

[Grador]

Reading this thread I get the impression that you have not heard this speakers. If this is true, you should really find them and listen. You're opinion is far more important than anyone else's. If you have heard them and like them, then I think you're safe making that purchase. The best someone else can do is suggest speakers that may be better in your budget, but since you seem to highly value aesthetics many suggestions given to you would probably not meet your criteria of what is aesthetically pleasing.

 

[koksy]

alright, im gonna take a wild guess now. watt, ohm, inches, hz, db, whatever. None of this is enough to tell if speakers are any good, you have to actually hear them? Speakers aren't like computers, where hz, cores, gb is an easy indication to tell if something is good or bad. Is this correct? I was expecting to have some speakers or subs to compare specs to, but it's not the easy I'm guessing.

 

[Grador]

alright, im gonna take a wild guess now. watt, ohm, inches, hz, db, whatever. None of this is enough to tell if speakers are any good, you have to actually hear them? Speakers aren't like computers, where hz, cores, gb is an easy indication to tell if something is good or bad. Is this correct? I was expecting to have some speakers or subs to compare specs to, but it's not the easy I'm guessing.

The best you can do with specs is weed out things that are terrible. If something has frequency response from 200hz to 10khz it's just not going to cut it. That said you can have two speakers with identical specs that sound completely different, so you are correct, specing out speakers will not really help you all that much. [For the record, on a computer the hz isn't all that great an indication either.]

 

[koksy]

Alright, but when I am told my sub is the weakest link, you must have a reason to be saying this. If you can somehow determine the sub is not powerful enough in comparison to the rest of the setup, you must be able to tell me what I should look for instead.

 

[fuzz092888]

I would say look at klipsch subwoofers. They aren't terrible and they are available in Denmark. I'm not entirely sure, and I think I speak for many of the members here, that we aren't terribly up to date on what is available in other countries, except maybe the UK because they have many of the same commercially available speakers as the US.

Compared to a lot of subwoofers we have over here, the sub is your weakest link because we could probably find quite a few subs available in the US that would be much better for the price (as josuah said). It is a bit underpowered with a dynamic power of 270w, but as stated above it really depends on the size of your room. I'm guessing it is also less accurate than the subs we can compare it to.

Just my two cents.

 

[koksy]

that explains a lot, thanks for that

I live in an apartment, so I can't play too loud anyway. Here's part of the blueprint of the apartment. The red area is where I plan on placing the TV, the blue where I have the piano.
There's about 17m2 from the left wall to the cutoff, and 22 additional further on.
http://i.imgur.com/nCK5B.png
Will 270w be enough for that? I don't mind spending money on something bigger.

 

[fuzz092888]

I would say for a space that big and because it's open in the back you should need something more potent. Remember I said that the sub you have picked out is only 270 dynamic. Rms and dynamic are two different numbers that amps are rated with. Dynamic range is for big peaks explosions etc and rms is kind of like the average. Saying average is over simplifying it but for your purposes it will do for now.

I would look for either something bigger or even better get two or three smaller subs for less money. Two or three well placed 10" or 12" inch subs will get you even coverage across your entire space.

 

[agarwalro]

I'm not sure if the Klipsch subs in the same price range will be any better than your current Yamaha sub. Which brands are readily available locally? If you buy online, where do you typically look for speakers/electronics?

Alright, but when I am told my sub is the weakest link, you must have a reason to be saying this.

A clarification: 'Weakest link' is not saying the Yamaha sub is crap and needs to be replaced now. It just means, you will find that it is insufficient in some cases.

I live in an apartment, so I can't play too loud anyway. Here's part of the blueprint of the apartment. The red area is where I plan on placing the TV, the blue where I have the piano.
There's about 17m2 from the left wall to the cutoff, and 22 additional further on.
Will 270w be enough for that? I don't mind spending money on something bigger.

Case in point, for a 17+22 sq. meter space, that sub is woefully insufficient. But, you mention it is an apartment and you cannot push the volume, the sub will be good enough for background music and moderate volume listening. If you start pushing it for a movie with low rumbling bass or a thumping techno track, it will run out of steam very quickly. What you can do though, make sure you are getting the most from the sub. Here are two articles that will help you find the optimal location for the sub.

Subwoofer Placement Guidelines — Reviews and News from Audioholics
Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement — Reviews and News from Audioholics

I highly recommend reading the articles in this thread. It will give you a solid foundation with which to start in the AV hobby.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/2203-need-basic-advice-check-here-first.html

I would look for either something bigger or even better get two or three smaller subs for less money. Two or three well placed 10" or 12" inch subs will get you even coverage across your entire space.

This is good advise. Multiple subs will give you more even bass (but can be tricky to equalize properly) and bigger diameter drivers will move more air, thereby giving you more volume. For a space that big, I would recommend using two subs at minimum, each with driver of 12 inch diameter or more.

 

[koksy]

I rarely play music in my apartment, apart from the piano of course (mostly play classical). For movies it would be cool if I could get that rumbling effect, if just a little so my neighbors dont complain.

I was not aware I could use multiple subs. Does my selected receiver support that? (Pioneer VSX 921). I can only see 1 Sub port.

For the biggest selection available to me I would go to amazon.co.uk or amazon.de and even then the selection is fairly small (a lot of the listed items aren't sold internationally).
Otherwise I would probably buy something from here, it's one of the only places that sell audio equipment around here. Gets expensive very fast.

I'll read those articles now, thanks for the links. As I mentioned earlier It tried reading a lot of the articles in the sticky but there's some seemingly important words I dont understand I just end up confused.

 

[Grador]

I own a klipsch sub and have heard yamahas, the klipsch is much better. I own a RW-10d and my father has an RW-12d (10 and 12 inch respectively), and there are some trade offs between them that really hinges upon intended use. My 10 inch is a little more transparent with reasonably tight response that does quite well for music, while my father's 12 inch has a bit more bass extension making it a little better for movies.

There are things out there that are a bit better, and I find that my sub can get a little boomy at higher volume levels, though this could be more due to room issues than the subwoofer, but I paid ~200$US for it and for that price I am extremely happy.

 

[koksy]

cool input grador thanks, i was actually told by colleagues klipsch are too high pitched for movies when I was looking at the RW-10 (which costs $700 in Denmark).

 

[koksy]

Subwoofer Placement Guidelines — Reviews and News from Audioholics
Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Having read these 2 articles, I am probably going to be placing my sub in the green circle (unless I buy 2, doubt I'll buy 3).
http://i.imgur.com/p2K4T.png
I don't need any sound to be great beyond the couch in the rest of the living room, and bass isn't very important when playing classical piano.

 

[agarwalro]

cool input grador thanks, i was actually told by colleagues klipsch are too high pitched for movies when I was looking at the RW-10 (which costs $700 in Denmark).

Having read these 2 articles, I am probably going to be placing my sub in the green circle (unless I buy 2, doubt I'll buy 3).
http://i.imgur.com/p2K4T.png
I don't need any sound to be great beyond the couch in the rest of the living room, and bass isn't very important when playing classical piano.

Am I correct in assuming you already have the Yamaha sub? Seems you came here looking for cable related information and a comment made by me has sent you down the path of looking for a subwoofer. I would say agian, since you listen to low volume music or movies, that Yamaha will be sufficient for your needs.

Now let's get back to your original questions on cables. On that subject, it should be like this. Anything with an HDMI out, should be sent to the HDMI input on the receiver. You should run only one HDMI to the TV and let the receiver do all the switching.

I would recommend not running the Roland keyboard through the Pioneer speakers and using headphones or the onboard speakers. Using the Pioneer setup in a uncontrolled room (meaning your living room instead of a music studio with tightly controlled room effects), will lead to unknown alterations in the levels and pitch. That last thing you need is for your ear to develop incorrectly due to this.

 

[koksy]

my ear what now

nah man I haven't bought the sub yet. I started the thread looking for any advice on the setup so it's all cool. I do have a headset for the piano, but it feels much better playing with speakers.

Do you think the sub placement is good?