How about a pre-amplifier coupled with active speakers, forgoing the separate power amp?

[Alexandre]

I've been thinking of Zone 2 options for my house (not actually going to happen any time soon but eh, I like to day dream). I used to have a stereo amp, a CD player, an airport express for convenience and a pair of passive speakers but the more I think about it the more I'm thinking that for the next setup I'd probably forgo the amp altogether and go with wireless powered speakers (Dynaudio Xeo 4 or something like that)… at this point you're probably thinking "ok but seriously, what is this doing in the Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers section of the forums?

Well, as I've been thinking about those things, I've started to wonder… has anyone considered a pre-pro + powered speakers setup for stereo or, home theater? I'm thinking that a Dynaudio Xeo home theater with a decent pre-processor could be fun. Has anyone done this?

While the Xeo seem to be mostly meant to deal with digital audio inputs, they do accept analog sources. Would this work?

Cheers,
Alex.

 

[slipperybidness]

I think this is a valid approach and should be considered more often in this hobby.

I think there are 2 disadvantages
*"Most" powered speakers tend to be geared towards near-field or mid-field listening. But I think those Dyns you mention get around that.

*Gotta have a power outlet available at each speaker. Good luck with that for 5 channels.

Check out DJ Reef on the AH site. He has some Emo Powered monitors and a pre, similar to what you mentioned.

 

[highfigh]

I've been thinking of Zone 2 options for my house (not actually going to happen any time soon but eh, I like to day dream). I used to have a stereo amp, a CD player, an airport express for convenience and a pair of passive speakers but the more I think about it the more I'm thinking that for the next setup I'd probably forgo the amp altogether and go with wireless powered speakers (Dynaudio Xeo 4 or something like that)… at this point you're probably thinking "ok but seriously, what is this doing in the Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers section of the forums?

Well, as I've been thinking about those things, I've started to wonder… has anyone considered a pre-pro + powered speakers setup for stereo or, home theater? I'm thinking that a Dynaudio Xeo home theater with a decent pre-processor could be fun. Has anyone done this?

While the Xeo seem to be mostly meant to deal with digital audio inputs, they do accept analog sources. Would this work?

Cheers,
Alex.

Dynaudio's Xeo line is made for wireless audio- I wasn't aware that they had line input. The Focus XD and their BM Monitors have line in, though.

 

[Alexandre]

Dynaudio's Xeo line is made for wireless audio- I wasn't aware that they had line input. The Focus XD and their BM Monitors have line in, though.

Well, to me that's another adavantage, you just have to hook up the preamp to the wireless module of the Xeo and not to the speakers which is one less cable going to the speakers (well, sort of, since, just like slipperybidness mentioned, you still need power).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Whatever works best for YOU.

I prefer my amps to be OUTSIDE of the speakers and subwoofers. That works best for ME.

In the long run, I don't think it's worth debating which actually sounds "better". Just whatever works best for you.

 

[Alexandre]

Whatever works best for YOU.

I prefer my amps to be OUTSIDE of the speakers and subwoofers. That works best for ME.

In the long run, I don't think it's worth debating which actually sounds "better". Just whatever works best for you.

Any particular reason/concern around having the amp built into the speaker? While I respect the "whatever works for you" attitude, it's not really the spirit of forum discussions. The whole point of me asking is to figure out if people have done it and what others' thoughts are on that topic.

 

[slipperybidness]

Any particular reason/concern around having the amp built into the speaker? While I respect the "whatever works for you" attitude, it's not really the spirit of forum discussions. The whole point of me asking is to figure out if people have done it and what others' thoughts are on that topic.

Speakers are very reliable, likely to perform for decades without any maintenance.

Amps are orders of magnitude less reliable than speakers!

If an external amp fails, then you can easily swap in a new one. When internal amp fails, you must have it repaired or try to find OEM replacement.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Any particular reason/concern around having the amp built into the speaker? While I respect the "whatever works for you" attitude, it's not really the spirit of forum discussions. The whole point of me asking is to figure out if people have done it and what others' thoughts are on that topic.

If the amp malfunctions, it is more difficult to repair/replace. I feel this way towards both speakers and subwoofers.

Speakers with Internal amps have more heat than speakers with external amps.

Active speakers are usually more expensive since you are paying for the amp. If you already have the amp/AVR, why pay more?

External Amps are cool. I love to use ATI amps to power all my speakers and subwoofers. If I were a billionaire, I would use $100K amps to power all my speakers and subwoofers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Speakers are very reliable, likely to perform for decades without any maintenance.

Amps are orders of magnitude less reliable than speakers!

If an external amp fails, then you can easily swap in a new one. When internal amp fails, you must have it repaired or try to find OEM replacement.

You beat me to it.

I blame my new MacBook Air for the slow typing (still getting used to it).

 

[highfigh]

Any particular reason/concern around having the amp built into the speaker? While I respect the "whatever works for you" attitude, it's not really the spirit of forum discussions. The whole point of me asking is to figure out if people have done it and what others' thoughts are on that topic.

There is no single best answer for most questions and this is one of those that doesn't work for all people.

Long cable runs with high impedance unbalanced wiring can be more susceptible to noise and signal loss but that's subject to the length of the cables and where they're positioned. If they're running parallel to power wiring, it's likely that you'll hear hum but that's not an absolute certainty.

What is the distance from the AVR to the Zone 2 speakers?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just placed an order for 7 pairs of RBH 8" 2-way in-ceiling speakers for the new place I'm building. They are passive. They all have 25YR warranty. I bet if they had built-in amps, the warranty would dwindled to 2YR.

 

[Alexandre]

If the amp malfunctions, it is more difficult to repair/replace. I feel this way towards both speakers and subwoofers.

Speakers with Internal amps have more heat than speakers with external amps.

Active speakers are usually more expensive since you are paying for the amp. If you already have the amp/AVR, why pay more?

External Amps are cool. I love to use ATI amps to power all my speakers and subwoofers. If I were a billionaire, I would use $100K amps to power all my speakers and subwoofers.

That's a very reasonable answer… up to the part about $100K amps but eh…

 

[Alexandre]

There is no single best answer for most questions and this is one of those that doesn't work for all people.

Long cable runs with high impedance unbalanced wiring can be more susceptible to noise and signal loss but that's subject to the length of the cables and where they're positioned. If they're running parallel to power wiring, it's likely that you'll hear hum but that's not an absolute certainty.

What is the distance from the AVR to the Zone 2 speakers?

Well, my case is purely theoretical, so far. I just replaced the whole home theater, I'm not planning on re-replacing it, also I'm pretty sure my wife would not appreciate it.

For Zone 2 – some day – it'd be in a completely separate room on the other side of the house, quite far from the living room (yay for long and skinny victorian houses with wifi absorbing lead covered walls – I have 4 separate wifi repeaters all hard-wired to one another in order to get wifi throughout the house). That's why wireless/IP based communication sounds pretty good to me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's a very reasonable answer… up to the part about $100K amps but eh…

Okay, that was a little bit hyperbolized.

More like $10K amps----- if I were a billionaire.

 

[highfigh]

Well, my case is purely theoretical, so far. I just replaced the whole home theater, I'm not planning on re-replacing it, also I'm pretty sure my wife would not appreciate it.

For Zone 2 – some day – it'd be in a completely separate room on the other side of the house, quite far from the living room (yay for long and skinny victorian houses with wifi absorbing lead covered walls – I have 4 separate wifi repeaters all hard-wired to one another in order to get wifi throughout the house). That's why wireless/IP based communication sounds pretty good to me.

Recording studios often use powered speakers but, as was mentioned, they're made for near field listening, not filling a room. The Focus XD are different- they're made for serious listening and, having used the Dynaudio Excite 14, 32 and several from the Audience series, I doubt they would have a problem doing this.

However, I would look at the cost of active speakers vs passive/separate power amp.

I would hesitate to use wireless if wired is a viable option- wiring is more reliable and less prone to interference and latency is rarely a problem.

DO you mean that your first repeater is wired to the router, the 2nd is wired to the 1st, the 3rd is wired to the 2nd and the 4th is wired to the 3rd? That's not the way they're supposed to be connected and I have never seen anyone recommend anything other than wiring all of them to a hub or switch (since hubs are basically a dead issue).

 

[Alexandre]

Recording studios often use powered speakers but, as was mentioned, they're made for near field listening, not filling a room. The Focus XD are different- they're made for serious listening and, having used the Dynaudio Excite 14, 32 and several from the Audience series, I doubt they would have a problem doing this.

However, I would look at the cost of active speakers vs passive/separate power amp.

Cost is a fair concern but since this is more of a theoretical question, I wasn't too worried about it.

I would hesitate to use wireless if wired is a viable option- wiring is more reliable and less prone to interference and latency is rarely a problem.

DO you mean that your first repeater is wired to the router, the 2nd is wired to the 1st, the 3rd is wired to the 2nd and the 4th is wired to the 3rd? That's not the way they're supposed to be connected and I have never seen anyone recommend anything other than wiring all of them to a hub or switch (since hubs are basically a dead issue).

To be clear, I don't have wireless speakers but my home network consists of 4 separate Airport base stations all physically wired together by Cat5/Cat5 cabling because the wifi signal doesn't seem to go through my lead paint covered walls very well…

 

[highfigh]

Cost is a fair concern but since this is more of a theoretical question, I wasn't too worried about it.



To be clear, I don't have wireless speakers but my home network consists of 4 separate Airport base stations all physically wired together by Cat5/Cat5 cabling because the wifi signal doesn't seem to go through my lead paint covered walls very well…

It's far more likely that your walls have metal lath behind the plaster. The mesh is in contact with the electrical junction boxes and, along with the density of the plaster, the range of your RF is almost zero.

My house has lead paint and my WiFi/cell phone performance is excellent. I'm not sure the lead makes so much of a difference but I have worked on homes with metal lath and all of them had RF range problems.

 

[Alexandre]

It's far more likely that your walls have metal lath behind the plaster. The mesh is in contact with the electrical junction boxes and, along with the density of the plaster, the range of your RF is almost zero.

My house has lead paint and my WiFi/cell phone performance is excellent. I'm not sure the lead makes so much of a difference but I have worked on homes with metal lath and all of them had RF range problems.

Oh yeah, I have no actual idea why the airport range is so dismal, I'm making up the lead part having to do with the range of the wifi base stations (even though it's extremely likely that there is actual lead paint on the walls). But since I had the opportunity to install some cat 5 in the walls or under the floor, it's worked out pretty well.

Oh and in this typical, old, SF Victorian, the walls are mostly plaster on wood, not even drywall (except in the couple of rooms we've redone).

 

[highfigh]

Oh yeah, I have no actual idea why the airport range is so dismal, I'm making up the lead part having to do with the range of the wifi base stations (even though it's extremely likely that there is actual lead paint on the walls). But since I had the opportunity to install some cat 5 in the walls or under the floor, it's worked out pretty well.

Oh and in this typical, old, SF Victorian, the walls are mostly plaster on wood, not even drywall (except in the couple of rooms we've redone).

If the houses' layout causes the signal to try to pass through exterior walls, the materials will have their way with the strength, too. Dense materials attenuate more than lightweight unless the lighter materials contain something that acts as a shield.

Another thing you need to consider is the wireless signal path. Think of the Airports (or any other device used to extend WiFi) as a lamp. You can see the light when you're in that room, but once you leave, you can only see it if you're in line with a doorway or window and even then, it's not very bright. Going through one wall degrades the signal and adding a second wall is worse. Add a big refrigerator, exterior walls and distance- signal strength drops even more.

Use the 2.4GHz band- that penetrates further than 5GHz signal.