How About 10 Gauge Electrical Wire for Speakers?

[ahender]

Just started to read this forum and noted several comments about using solid core copper wire for speakers.

I all solid core copper the same?

Can plain old electrical wire be used for long runs under a house?

Did a search on solid core copper but it did not turn up much.

thanks...alan

 

[Midcow2]

My wire opinions : bigger is not always better and but it's STIFFER

Just started to read this forum and noted several comments about using solid core copper wire for speakers.

I all solid core copper the same?

Can plain old electrical wire be used for long runs under a house?

Did a search on solid core copper but it did not turn up much.

thanks...alan

In almost all cases 14 gauge wire is more than adequate. Some ethusiasts use 12 guage, but the bigeer wire is an overkill, electical properties are electrical properties. 10 gauge is an extreme overkill but some people use 10 gauge also. However, you will find that almost all of the larger gauges, for cable are stranded wires so that the wire is flexible and can be easily bent. Solid core 10 gauge is very stiff and hard to work with. Most house wiring in a 3 conductor sheath is 14 or 12 gauge and it is solid but it doesn't bend very easily.

Get you some good cables or wire from monoprice or bluejeanscables. And really do go bigger than 12 gauge, the electrons can just go so fast over wire, they can't overcome the laws of physics and electricity

Good Luck!

MidCow2


P.S. - There are certain electrical codes about wiring; run wire under you house than meets those codes and plain wire doesnot.

 

[j_garcia]

I've used solid copper wire and the only issue with it is that it is NOT FLEXIBLE as Midcow2 mentioned. Other than that, it works the same as any other wire IMO.

 

[Rickster71]

Hi Alan,
Theoretically, you could use solid wire, or even metal coat hangers. They just aren't practical, or made for the application.
Even though, copper is copper. Someone went through much trouble to make all the different styles, and types of wire; and for good reason.

Unless you get Romex NM cable for free, it isn't worth using. Even then, it's too hard to work with, in comparison to speaker cable. (as was mentioned)
I suppose you could run it under the house, and into the wall, then to a speaker jack wall plate.
Then go with speaker cable from there.

As for 12 or 10-AWG; it really depends on how long the run is.

 

[cl35m]

I would try a short run of romex on top of the floor to your speaker(s) to see if you can hear a difference between stranded and solid core and if so, which one you like better. I've seen romex in 25 ft boxes but I always buy the 50 ft box.

Initially the stranded should sound better because it's louder. You might have to do a left vs right compare to isolate the differences between the two.

 

[Rickster71]

Initially the stranded should sound better because it's louder.

So...why is that?

 

[j_garcia]

I would try a short run of romex on top of the floor to your speaker(s) to see if you can hear a difference between stranded and solid core and if so, which one you like better.

You are smoking something. I've compared solid to stranded and as long as the AWG of each is sufficient, there is not going to be any noticeable difference in SPL at the speaker.

 

[Midcow2]

Don't have to worry about SPL electron cops

So...why is that?

Because the electrons don't have to crowd into just one wire. Therefore, they don't have to worry about neighbor electrons complaining and can be loud without fear of the SPL electron cops being called ** JOKE **

Cheers,

MidCow2

 

[cl35m]

So...why is that?

I thought it was pretty much common sense that if speaker a was let's say 10% louder than speaker b that initially speaker a would sound better because more sound is coming out which almost always gets interpretted as better sound until you start closely comparing the vocals or individual instruments between the 2 speakers.

You are smoking something. I've compared solid to stranded and as long as the AWG of each is sufficient, there is not going to be any noticeable difference in SPL at the speaker.

I gave my opinion based on what I heard and you gave your opinion. End of story.

 

[Rickster71]

Because the electrons don't have to crowd into just one wire. Therefore, they don't have to worry about neighbor electrons complaining and can be loud without fear of the SPL electron cops being called ** JOKE **

Cheers,

MidCow2

Electrons have cops? Must have awfully small uniforms.
How do they fit their squad car into the wire? Oh, never mind....that would explain the 10 AWG.

 

[j_garcia]

I thought it was pretty much common sense that if speaker a was let's say 10% louder than speaker b that initially speaker a would sound better because more sound is coming out which almost always gets interpretted as better sound until you start closely comparing the vocals or individual instruments between the 2 speakers.

It takes +3dB typically for a person to consider one speaker louder than another, and that will be more than a 10% difference. IMO, the average person can hear a difference of 1dB when the level is adjusted, but asking anyone to detect a 1dB difference between two speakers playing simultaneously: I have never seen anyone who could do that. I agree that louder will generally be perceived as "better" in comparisons, but speaker wire will never make enough of a difference to create anywhere near 3dB change or a 10% change for that matter.

I gave my opinion based on what I heard and you gave your opinion. End of story.

Yes, based on what you heard, but the ear is easy to fool. My opinion is backed up with months of comparing. I wanted to find out for myself if there actually was a difference and the result was: there wasn't. Until you provide some kind of basis for making such claims, your opinion doesn't hold much weight. It would be a simple test hook up one wire to a speaker and measure the SPL with some test tones at various frequencies. Then the same tones with the other wire making no other changes to the system.

Electrons have cops? Must have awfully small uniforms.
How do they fit their squad car into the wire? Oh, never mind....that would explain the 10 AWG.

Keystone Cops - 25 of them per car

 

[Rickster71]

I thought it was pretty much common sense that if speaker a was let's say 10% louder than speaker b that initially speaker a would sound better because more sound is coming out which almost always gets interpretted as better sound until you start closely comparing the vocals or individual instruments between the 2 speakers.

I wasn't asking "if" you thought it was louder. I asked "why" you thought stranded wire was louder.

What type of dB meter do you use, analog or digital?

 

[cl35m]

I wasn't asking "if" you thought it was louder. I asked "why" you thought stranded wire was louder.

What type of dB meter do you use, analog or digital?

This is why I stay out of these debates. Some can hear the difference between wires and cables and some can't. Some want to measure everything and others just use their ears. That's why I suggested the OP try both wires to see which one they like better before running it under the floor or through the attic.

I know what I like but I know the OP may not and may not even be able to hear the differences that I can.

 

[j_garcia]

You mean, the differences that you THINK you can hear

I can hear slight differences with some interconnects (totally different signal level and voltages than speaker wire) so I know what you are talking about, but big differences in speaker wire is bunk. You are telling him to buy two sets of wire and then compare them based on your opinion. That costs MORE and leaves him with unnecessary wire, so your advice isn't what I would call "sound".

We all know how these discussions end up....

 

[OttoMatic]

This is why I stay out of these debates...

I know what I like but I know the OP may not and may not even be able to hear the differences that I can.

Yeah, that's cool. I personally think that there isn't much (any?) difference between cables.

Anyway, when you start talking about 3dB differences between cables, that's clearly measurable. Are you saying that if I use standard Romex vs. some 12 gauge stranded cable, that I will be able to measure a 3 dB difference in my room? I find that to be very unlikely. Seriously, at that point you are not talking about subtle differences. It won't be about preference, or "I can hear this" or "you can hear that". A 3 dB delta will be easy to measure. If I get bored enough, I'll try it out tonight (10% chance).

 

[j_garcia]

He didn't bring up a 3dB delta, I did, as an example. I was merely saying that in general for the average person to actually percieve a noticeable difference in SPL, it would need to be around 3dB and that a 1dB difference is almost impossible to detect reliably with the ear.

 

[OttoMatic]

Oops on the 3dB thing, then. Still, if you can hear it louder, you can measure it louder. Someone's confused here...

 

[mtrycrafts]

This is why I stay out of these debates. Some can hear the difference between wires and cables and some can't. Some want to measure everything and others just use their ears. That's why I suggested the OP try both wires to see which one they like better before running it under the floor or through the attic.

Actually, no one to date has shown that they can credibly hear audible differences due to wire being stranded or solid. Some, like yourself may claim to, but that is just a claim, not a demonstration of such claim.

But, you could be the first on the planet and you could be $1 million richer by taking the Randi challenge.

By the way, your ears are not a reliable tool to measure, in case you really want to know.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I thought it was pretty much common sense that if speaker a was let's say 10% louder than speaker b that initially speaker a would sound better because more sound is coming out which almost always gets interpretted as better sound until you start closely comparing the vocals or individual instruments between the 2 speakers..

Yep, that is correct. To many volume differences are interpreted to as being better but so what, One can always just turn up the volume.

Besides, if the wire is the same gauge, there should not be a volume difference, period, end of story, the wire resistance is essentially the same, period another story ends. Besides, no one has yet been able to demonstrate audible differences in cable ga differences between 12ga and 16 ga which has a more than 2x resistance difference.

 

[Alex2507]

End of story.

No it's not.

One of you is right and the other is wrong.