House Voltage Issues

sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
They will be installing the new flanged connected meters with real time monitoring in a few weeks and I may just wait and monitor that. As long as I'm not going to fry gear with 110v power sags I can live with my UPSs and power conditioners complaining. Thanks all!
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
They will be installing the new flanged connected meters with real time monitoring in a few weeks and I may just wait and monitor that. As long as I'm not going to fry gear with 110v power sags I can live with my UPSs and power conditioners complaining. Thanks all!
110V is within the required range the utilities and it won't fry your equipment if it's sag, as opposed to fast up/down spikes.
 
M

m_vanmeter

Full Audioholic
the 5v drop between the meter and the main panel input is a concern. Are your main feeder cables from the meter to the panel copper or aluminum ?

I agree with several others, there may be a corrosion issue with the feeder cables from the meter to your panel, or stray currents due to insulation breakdown, or undersized wire....all issues an electrician can diagnose fairly quickly, or just replace the feeders and make all new connections between the meter and the panel.
 
sawzalot

sawzalot

Audioholic Samurai
I don't know about you guys but I will be adding an incandescent light bulb to my tool box,I think the multi meter takes up too much space anyhow, ahh Fluke it, what do I know.

I had a problem not so different than yours scholling and it turned out to be the taps at the house service cable and the utility line in, they were temp taps with allen screws to make the connection and the neutral was so corroded that leg was sliding inside the connector , when the lineman showed up and found this he had me throw the main and then he proceded to slide the cable leg right out of the connector with minimal force , he said those bugs were temporary from an electrician that never called for the permanent hook-up so he replaced them all with new compression fittings and he had to cut back on my aluminum service cable as the ends were very brittle so indeed it could be the service cable in your case. I have not experienced any drops or erratic voltage since this repair.
 
W

westom

Audioholic
As long as I'm not going to fry gear with 110v power sags I can live with my UPSs and power conditioners complaining.
Low voltage does not harm electronics. We sometimes intentionally design low voltage (brownouts) inside electronics to make electronics more robust.

Low voltage is harmful to refrigerator, dish washer, air conditioner, furnace, and other motorized appliances. 110 volts is when low voltage starts becoming problematic to motorized appliances. Ideal voltage for all electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. If voltage drops that low causes any electronic appliance to powers off, then electronics may be defective. Low voltage is not harmful to electronics as defined by international design standards even 40 years ago.
so he replaced them all with new compression fittings
Aluminum connection do not fail when properly installed. Problem is only when someone makes connections improperly. Some companies will not sell their special aluminum wire connecting tools without the owner first taking a required instruction course. Aluminum connections are quite safe. But only when a human installer learns properly.

An example of why human mistakes create death was the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire outside of Cincinnati. Connections not done properly. Management ignored symptoms of a serious problem. One indication of a wiring defect is incandescent bulbs changing intensity when any major appliance power cycles. Meter is for confirming and then locating a defect made obvious by changing bulb intensity; that should not happen if wiring is done properly.
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
It's a shame you couldn't get your hand on a thermal imaging camera. That's how you can easily find lose connections, hot legs and faulty electrical components without having to get too deep into testing. We use one at work to monitor all of our electrical switchgear. The cost has come down so much to make it well worth the cost. Can pay for itself the first time in a large industrial setting. Fluke makes some nice ones:
http://us.fluke.com/fluke/usen/products/categoryti

Here's an example of one leg running hot. Most likely a lose connection:

My company prints labels for some of Fluke's CM's. I quoted a new part for them yesterday. Maybe I can get a discount on one of their cameras.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
My company prints labels for some of Fluke's CM's. I quoted a new part for them yesterday. Maybe I can get a discount on one of their cameras.
Thanks but I'm starting to suspect that the power company meter was wrong and I'm just not getting any more than 116v (on a good day) to my home. With yesterdays heat (104 degrees) and the state wide drain on our woefully inadequate power grid voltages were 101-110 all day with an average of about 107v. I suspect that I have a grid problem not a house problem.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks but I'm starting to suspect that the power company meter was wrong and I'm just not getting any more than 116v (on a good day) to my home. With yesterdays heat (104 degrees) and the state wide drain on our woefully inadequate power grid voltages were 101-110 all day with an average of about 107v. I suspect that I have a grid problem not a house problem.
We all have a grid problem.

Don't you get any voltage-y goodness from that windmill farm in the valley?
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
We all have a grid problem.

Don't you get any voltage-y goodness from that windmill farm in the valley?
The windmill farm near Palm Springs that usually sits nearly idle? That's about a 40 mile drive so I don't get out that way much but off hand I think think I've ever seen more than 10-20% spinning at a time. At the rate our grid and generation capacity is going I figure that California audiophiles will be down to hand cranked AM radios and solar lights in 10 years.
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
The windmill farm near Palm Springs that usually sits nearly idle? That's about a 40 mile drive so I don't get out that way much but off hand I think think I've ever seen more than 10-20% spinning at a time. At the rate our grid and generation capacity is going I figure that California audiophiles will be down to hand cranked AM radios and solar lights in 10 years.
When I was still living in SD, I used to date a girl that lived in Hemet. Ever run across a girl named Blanca Lara?
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
When I was still living in SD, I used to date a girl that lived in Hemet. Ever run across a girl named Blanca Lara?
No I'm afraid not, but Hemet has grown to about 75,000 now and I'm a bit of a Hermit.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
$6K?!?!?! Holy shiznit! I was thinking somewhere along the lines on one less zero. :eek:
Like I said, with large industrial usage (like my job), it will pay for itself on the first job. We've found many large HP motors that were running hot and ready for a "dip and bake". If we would have kept running them we would have ended up burning out the stator and needi ng a full re-wind. We also found many lose wire connections in motor control centers and distribution centers. If left untouched, they'd end up causing a major failure or short.

You also end up saving electricity by fixing the problems.


But let's talk about how much professional audio and video calibration equipment costs if you want to get sticker shock. :eek:
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks but I'm starting to suspect that the power company meter was wrong and I'm just not getting any more than 116v (on a good day) to my home. With yesterdays heat (104 degrees) and the state wide drain on our woefully inadequate power grid voltages were 101-110 all day with an average of about 107v. I suspect that I have a grid problem not a house problem.
I had a problem about three years ago, similar to yours, with fluctuating voltage.

This is the nasty wave form I had on the AC. Distortion was way out of spec.



It turned out the problem was a bad transformer I share with my neighbor. The power company replaced the transformer and everything has been good since. Although summer thunderstorms, winter ice and the ripple loads going on and off in the winter require obsessional power management in the racks.
 
W

westom

Audioholic
Thanks but I'm starting to suspect that the power company meter was wrong and I'm just not getting any more than 116v (on a good day) to my home.
107 volts is a 10% voltage reduction. A violation. If low voltage is due to the utility, then you have a local distribution problem. Ie a street transformer is undersized. Or a power factor problem. The utility can only lower voltage to about 5%. Then it must disconnect.

A defective grid is politicians telling the technically naive what to think. The grid works just fine as long as management does not screw up. For example, a NE blackout was directly traceable Anthony Alexander and other executives doing cost controls in First Energy Corporation. To gain support from the naive, invented was this inadequate power grid myth. Then management who create local problems need not suffer consequences. There are pockets of insufficient generation (ie western CT). But the grid is adequate.

Where is 107 volts measured? Meaured by the utility electric meter? Or by your meter on a wall receptacle? 107 volts is potentially harmful to your air conditioner, refrigerator, dish washer, and washing machine. Therefore that voltage must not exist. 107 volts is perfectly ideal power to all electronics. Voltage that low from an utility typically means undersized local distribution or your nearby street transformer about to fail.

Does a light bulb dim or brighten when a major appliance power cycles? How does voltage change when major appliances power cycle? Unprovided facts that best define the problem.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
107 volts is a 10% voltage reduction. A violation. If low voltage is due to the utility, then you have a local distribution problem. Ie a street transformer is undersized. Or a power factor problem. The utility can only lower voltage to about 5%. Then it must disconnect.

A defective grid is politicians telling the technically naive what to think. The grid works just fine as long as management does not screw up. For example, a NE blackout was directly traceable Anthony Alexander and other executives doing cost controls in First Energy Corporation. To gain support from the naive, invented was this inadequate power grid myth. Then management who create local problems need not suffer consequences. There are pockets of insufficient generation (ie western CT). But the grid is adequate.

Where is 107 volts measured? By the electric meter? Or by your meter on a wall receptacle? 107 volts is potentially harmful to your air conditioner, refrigerator, dish washer, and washing machine. Therefore that voltage must not exist. 107 volts is perfectly ideal power to all electronics. Voltage that low from an eeutility typically means undersized local distribution or your nearby street transformer about to fail.

Does a light bulb dim or brighten when a major appliance power cycles? How does voltage change when major appliances power cycle? Unprovided facts that best define the problem.
Could you please troll elsewhere.
 
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