Home Theater Speakers - In-wall or Box near wall?

[Grymlot]

Hi everyone,

I have recently gotten a taste of the rabbit hole that audio technology and preferences can be, and I am torn on a specific question for my home theater: In-wall speakers, or Box speakers without the 3 ft clearance from the wall?

We are finishing our basement, so the framing is just going up right now. I have seen alot of opinions about in-wall speakers not giving the best sound, but I really like the aesthetics. I also saw that for proper placement of a box/tower speaker, you want the speakers at least 3 feet from the walls. Well, my room is about 15 ft x 12, so there's not really room for that. Putting the speakers 3 ft from the wall means people are going to bump into them and they may even get in the way of the projector screen, which is arguably a little on the big size for the room (120" 16x9 screen is my plan). So for now, I am close to settled on in-wall speakers, and I am probably even going to angle the front corners a bit so the speakers can face inward at an angle a bit, but still be in-wall.

However, I also read that in-wall speakers are infinite baffle and people say they are generally designed with the idea that your studs are a certain distance apart and so the manufacturers plan for something like 3 cubic feet of space. Yet, they are also not air tight behind there, so building a box into the wall may be best. This turns out to be pretty difficult if I'm not planning to buy my speakers right away, which I'm not. So I can build an MDF box in the wall for each speaker, but I don't know what size the speaker is going to be. I figured I'd shoot for 3-5 cubic feet of space and try and seal it up a bit.

Now, the simplicity of just buying box speakers to sit on the ground is creeping into my mind. Maybe the sound would be better that way anyway? The problem is, I'm seeing people say speakers should be 3 ft from the wall, and I don't like that. How important is that? What if I put sound dampening panels behind the speakers on the wall...can I then put the speaker right up against the wall in the corner?

Ultimately, my main question is this: Should I go ahead with in-wall speakers and do the extra work to close them up in an MDF box, perhaps even buying the speakers right now, so I know their size, or should I instead buy box/tower speakers and put them right up against the wall so they're out of the way? Which is better sound? My total budget for speakers is something like $1000 and I'm just going for a 5.1 system for now (although, we'll wire up for atmos later if desired).

 

[BMXTRIX]

Yes, you should do that.

Of course, this completely helpful non-answer does you no good at all, but it is honest.

The choice of speakers is a very personal choice. You will get best results, as you've read, by using good tower speakers, but they come at a price. In-wall speakers can be relatively good. You could consider a speaker like the Triad speakers, which cost a bit more, but they are definitely designed with in-wall as the design and come with integrated back boxes.

At the end, IMO, this is all about what you desires are. Do you want best in class sound at all costs? Do you want a nice system with slight compromises to audio quality, but a reasonable jump on in-walls? Do you demand in-wall looks, but with highest possible performance quality? Or, is a reasonably nice sounding in-wall system perfectly fine?

I've done any number of front projection setups for home theater with AT screens and in-wall speakers. For a fairly low budget, you can get pretty solid sound that is hard to best without spending hundreds of dollars more per speaker.

But, so much of it comes down to you, your space, your budget, your need to accommodate everyone. Some rooms don't have a decent layout for speakers to be placed further into the room. Some have the room, but it just doesn't work out for other reasons.

If considering front projection, because it's just a big TV otherwise, then a serious consideration for any build out should be doing an acoustically transparent screen and putting speakers behind a false wall.

 

[Pogre]

As a general rule you will get better performance from free standing speakers than going with in walls for the money. In wall speakers can work pretty well but you'll pay more for the same performance. @DigitalDawn is Triad dealer and they're known for making very good in-wall and on-wall speakers that come with back boxes.

LCR – Triad Speakers Online

triadspeakers.com

If you have the money I think they have options for virtually invisible in-wall speakers too.

Tower speakers. 3 feet from the wall for floor standing speakers might be ideal depending on the room but it's not a hard rule. I think a guy can get away with as little as a foot to 18 inches out and still have great performance. Some folks place them even closer like 6 or 8 inches but I wouldn't recommend flat against the wall, especially if rear ported, and many ported speakers are rear ported.

 

[Grymlot]

Yes, you should do that.

Of course, this completely helpful non-answer does you no good at all, but it is honest.

The choice of speakers is a very personal choice. You will get best results, as you've read, by using good tower speakers, but they come at a price. In-wall speakers can be relatively good. You could consider a speaker like the Triad speakers, which cost a bit more, but they are definitely designed with in-wall as the design and come with integrated back boxes.

At the end, IMO, this is all about what you desires are. Do you want best in class sound at all costs? Do you want a nice system with slight compromises to audio quality, but a reasonable jump on in-walls? Do you demand in-wall looks, but with highest possible performance quality? Or, is a reasonably nice sounding in-wall system perfectly fine?

I've done any number of front projection setups for home theater with AT screens and in-wall speakers. For a fairly low budget, you can get pretty solid sound that is hard to best without spending hundreds of dollars more per speaker.

But, so much of it comes down to you, your space, your budget, your need to accommodate everyone. Some rooms don't have a decent layout for speakers to be placed further into the room. Some have the room, but it just doesn't work out for other reasons.

If considering front projection, because it's just a big TV otherwise, then a serious consideration for any build out should be doing an acoustically transparent screen and putting speakers behind a false wall.

'at all costs' is really not in my vocabulary for this project. I am just trying to get a nice entry-level home theater experienced set up. If I had to pick one thing, I guess I'm more focused on the picture. For that reason, I did consider a acoustically transparent screen, but decided against it. Thanks for the perspective here. I am not sure you leaned me one way or the other, but perhaps I'm less worried about either option being a problem.

 

[Grymlot]

As a general rule you will get better performance from free standing speakers than going with in walls for the money. In wall speakers can work pretty well but you'll pay more for the same performance. @DigitalDawn is Triad dealer and they're known for making very good in-wall and on-wall speakers that come with back boxes.

LCR – Triad Speakers Online

triadspeakers.com

If you have the money I think they have options for virtually invisible in-wall speakers too.

Tower speakers. 3 feet from the wall for floor standing speakers might be ideal depending on the room but it's not a hard rule. I think a guy can get away with as little as a foot to 18 inches out and still have great performance. Some folks place them even closer like 6 or 8 inches but I wouldn't recommend flat against the wall, especially if rear ported, and many ported speakers are rear ported.

For the same reason, would you also consider free standing speakers a better idea than on-wall speakers, or do they account for the rear-port issue because they are designed for on-wall?

 

[WookieGR]

If I had to choose all over again how to design my home theater I would have went in-wall instead of boxed on the wall. I went with the boxed speakers because they are a superior speaker for traditional audio listening but I lost space on the sides of the room that could have allowed me one more theater seat for the row.

When dealing with surround speakers, as long as you precisely know your seating layout you can get excellent results with in-wall as long as they are placed correctly and you don't skimp on quality. Keeping the entire system in the same make and product line of speakers for proper timbre matching is also important.

Over thinking all things and becoming obsessed with every aspect of the system while I designed and built it blinded me to the fact that side and back channel speakers are for effects, not critical music listening.

Just my 2 cents, people do what they will do so whatevs.

 

[Pogre]

For the same reason, would you also consider free standing speakers a better idea than on-wall speakers, or do they account for the rear-port issue because they are designed for on-wall?

On wall speakers are designed for just that, yes. There are a lot of different options out there so it does pay to do some research. In general I'd say the more unobtrusive or invisible you want them to be the more the price goes up for good performance.

My total budget for speakers is something like $1000 and I'm just going for a 5.1 system for now

I missed this part. That's a pretty lean budget for 5.1 if you're including the subwoofer. If that budget is for 5 speakers without the sub it's a little more realistic but it's a pretty tall ask for decent in wall speakers. It's a little tight for traditional speakers even if you're including towers. Another consideration with that budget in mind could be bookshelf speakers instead of towers.

I think 3 of these Hsu CCB-8s across the front for $389 apiece for your mains and center would work really well for you.

CCB-8 Speaker

Order Note: Each order quantity contains ONE speaker. For a pair you would need to change the quantity to two The CCB-8, a constant directivity horn made in collaboration with Don Keele, is one of the industry’s best performing speakers when it comes to smooth, musical, off-axis response...

hsuresearch.com

They're very good speakers and should be plenty dynamic enough for your room with a sub in play. The concentric design makes an excellent choice for a center channel and you'd have timbre matching across the front, and they can also be laid on their side. With stands they would still have a similar footprint to a tower, but you can get away with having them closer to the wall. You'll be crossing over to a sub so they won't be playing a ton of bass anyway.

Grab a pair of their HB-1s at $200 apiece for your surround speakers and you have a really competent system for that size room for not too awful much over budget.

HB-1 MK2 Speaker

Order Note: Each order quantity contains ONE speaker. For a pair you would need to change the quantity to two The HB-1 MK2 is an affordable and compact speaker known for its wide soundstage and fatigue-less listening experience. Most affordable and smallest speaker in the HSU lineup Horn loaded...

hsuresearch.com

 

[Pogre]

Another consideration could be these Ascend Acoustics HTM-200 SE's at $338 a pair. They're sealed so no port at all AND they come pre drilled for wall mounting! With 4" drivers they're not going to produce prodigious bass or have a ton of headroom, but they can play low enough at 70 hz to cross over to a subwoofer and should be able to handle your small room. Plus you can wall mount them and save some space.

HTM-200SE2 MINI-MONITOR PAIR

High Performance Compact Speaker New Klippel NFS optimized version! Utilizing high-resolution, 360-degree measurements from our Klippel NFS, we’ve completely re-engineered the beloved HTM-200SE, delivering significant improvements across every performance category. We’ve also updated the cabinet...

www.ascendacoustics.com

 

[DigitalDawn]

Hi everyone,

I have recently gotten a taste of the rabbit hole that audio technology and preferences can be, and I am torn on a specific question for my home theater: In-wall speakers, or Box speakers without the 3 ft clearance from the wall?

We are finishing our basement, so the framing is just going up right now. I have seen alot of opinions about in-wall speakers not giving the best sound, but I really like the aesthetics. I also saw that for proper placement of a box/tower speaker, you want the speakers at least 3 feet from the walls. Well, my room is about 15 ft x 12, so there's not really room for that. Putting the speakers 3 ft from the wall means people are going to bump into them and they may even get in the way of the projector screen, which is arguably a little on the big size for the room (120" 16x9 screen is my plan). So for now, I am close to settled on in-wall speakers, and I am probably even going to angle the front corners a bit so the speakers can face inward at an angle a bit, but still be in-wall.

However, I also read that in-wall speakers are infinite baffle and people say they are generally designed with the idea that your studs are a certain distance apart and so the manufacturers plan for something like 3 cubic feet of space. Yet, they are also not air tight behind there, so building a box into the wall may be best. This turns out to be pretty difficult if I'm not planning to buy my speakers right away, which I'm not. So I can build an MDF box in the wall for each speaker, but I don't know what size the speaker is going to be. I figured I'd shoot for 3-5 cubic feet of space and try and seal it up a bit.

Now, the simplicity of just buying box speakers to sit on the ground is creeping into my mind. Maybe the sound would be better that way anyway? The problem is, I'm seeing people say speakers should be 3 ft from the wall, and I don't like that. How important is that? What if I put sound dampening panels behind the speakers on the wall...can I then put the speaker right up against the wall in the corner?

Ultimately, my main question is this: Should I go ahead with in-wall speakers and do the extra work to close them up in an MDF box, perhaps even buying the speakers right now, so I know their size, or should I instead buy box/tower speakers and put them right up against the wall so they're out of the way? Which is better sound? My total budget for speakers is something like $1000 and I'm just going for a 5.1 system for now (although, we'll wire up for atmos later if desired).

Triad is one of the only manufacturers out there that really knows how to design in-wall speakers. Keep in mind, that Triad speakers within a series (Bronze, Silver, Gold etc) are designed to sound the same -- cabinet characteristics, driver placement, and crossovers are all adjusted to make each speaker sonically identical. So, for example, InRoom, InWall, OnWall, and even InCeiling speakers should match one another acoustically.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For a 15x12 room, I would also get in-wall (5.1) and in-ceiling (Atmos) speakers. Also put the Subwoofer in the ceiling.

 

[Swerd]

Tower or book shelf speakers. 3 feet from the wall for floor standing speakers might be ideal depending on the room but it's not a hard rule. I think a guy can get away with as little as a foot to 18 inches out and still have great performance. Some folks place them even closer like 6 or 8 inches but I wouldn't recommend flat against the wall, especially if rear ported, and many ported speakers are rear ported.

I agree with Pogre. Three feet from the wall is a maximum distance. Don't think of that as a hard requirement. Less than 3 feet can also work well, depending on what speaker you have.

Over thinking all things and becoming obsessed with every aspect of the system while I designed and built it blinded me to the fact that side and back channel speakers are for effects, not critical music listening.

Good advice. Some things become obvious, but only after you've had your system for a while. Until then, don't over think things.

By far, the most important speakers are the front left, center, and right speakers. All the others, side & rear channels, atmos, and others ad nauseum are far less important than the front three.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I will say that I've used these speakers in entry level theaters for clients a shocking number of times. Both with, and without acoustically transparent screens, and I have YET to have a client be unhappy with the sound. To be fair, they are paired with fairly entry level components, most often, but I just did a setup using them with a 7.1.4 system, and the client was truly very happy with the end results...

Monoprice Caliber 8in Fiber In-Wall Speakers 3-Way (pair) - Monoprice.com

In-wall speakers allow you to expand your listening environment throughout your entire home, as well as removing the clutter of giant box speakers, giving you back your living sp

www.monoprice.com

Yes, it's a nice step up to some good floor standing speakers, but it is also a HUGE step up in expense to get a serious upgrade over the speakers linked above. Like, a major expense, which can be tough for a first time home theater setup in a new home.

If you run speaker wires long enough, you can always change things up in the future. Add a larger/better in-wall speaker, or even patch the wall and go with a floor standing speaker in the future if you wanted to. I always leave enough slack in my speaker cables to allow clients to make that change in the future if they ever wanted to.

 

[Pogre]

I'm gonna bring these back up again too, I think 5 of these HTME 200SE's from Ascend Acousitcs might be a pretty good compromise between floor standing and in/on wall speakers. They basically are on wall speakers pre drilled for use with threaded wall mounts and are a sealed design. The price is well within budget too.

HTM-200SE2 MINI-MONITOR PAIR

High Performance Compact Speaker New Klippel NFS optimized version! Utilizing high-resolution, 360-degree measurements from our Klippel NFS, we’ve completely re-engineered the beloved HTM-200SE, delivering significant improvements across every performance category. We’ve also updated the cabinet...

www.ascendacoustics.com

They're definitely not full range speakers but are made for use with a sub in mind and can be crossed over at a reasonable frequency. I think they'll work well in a room with your dimensions.