Home Theater Setup -- 2nd Room AVR or Separates?

[DenPureSound]

It has Multi-Channel Stereo Mode 5/6/7:

http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=f234eea1-3300-4537-8f59-f6cd2f3441d6&SubId=0&ProductId=3578bd2c-3865-4cf6-8203-4988ca9045dd

I think it's clear the AVR-4310CI is the best pick @ $900 brand new.

Knowing the 4310CI has only 10 Watts per Channel more x 7, and weighs 6.38 Pounds more than the 3310CI -- wonder where all that weight increase came from (maybe Larger Xformers, Heat Sinks, and Sec. Caps)? I don't think the 4th Denon link made up for that much weight, and the chassis are the same HxWxD dimensions.

Also, look at the fact the 4310CI consumes 1.1 Amperes more off the wall vs. the 3310CI, or 15.7% more Current Draw off wall outlet, for 8.33% more channel power output. CERTAINLY BEEFIER!!

I might want to call Electronics Expo and see what their BEST PRICE is on the 4310CI, assuming some are still around NEW.

 

[DenPureSound]

I suppose it depends on the features you want.

If I had a choice between a new 3312 for $900 or a new 4310 for $900, I would still take the 4310.

In my mind, the 4310 is higher end, and probably better quality.

So I still think a like-new 3310 for $445 is the best deal. Network/computer issues will always be around; they seem to have a mind of their own. I don't let my AVRs do any networking/computer work. I think that is just asking too much. I just want my AVRs to produce great sound quality and help me with HDMI switching.

Where is a Like-New 3310CI for $445 listed at?

Heck, I agree as that is half the price of a 4310CI, then if required I could spend the other $450 towards an EMO XPA-5 Amp, to KICK it UP a Notch.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Where is a Like-New 3310CI for $445 listed at?

Heck, I agree as that is half the price of a 4310CI, then if required I could spend the other $450 towards an EMO XPA-5 Amp, to KICK it UP a Notch.

Oh, sorry, I meant $542.49 ($520 + $22.49 shipping).

At one point, 2 weeks ago, there were 2 Like-New for $458 (free shipping).

That did not last long.

 

[DenPureSound]

Oh, sorry, I meant $542.49 ($520 + $22.49 shipping).

At one point, 2 weeks ago, there were 2 Like-New for $458 (free shipping).

That did not last long.

Why would the price of last years models 2010, well almost two years old since the '12's are coming out, Go UP in price $85. Makes no sense, should be going down $85 as it seems to me.

 

[jostenmeat]

And here is the 4310CI made in JAPAN:

Here is the 4311CI also made in JAPAN:

Thanks for the tidbit on the 4311.

OP, AcuDef hates Audyssey, but it is my #1 priority in terms of features. This is why the 4311 is particularly more desirable to me than the 4310, and at least where I* am concerned, if I didn't care about Audyssey, I would easily pick the 4310 and keep the benjamins in the pocket.

So the 4311 has the XT32 version, AND it also sports Sub EQ HT for independent correction of dual subs. Please note that Audyssey based units for dual subs are pretty expensive, whether it's $750 for the SVS ASEQ1, or perhaps more if you factor in the pro mic kit for the Auyssey stand alone Sub EQ.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AcuDef hates Audyssey

**hee**hee

Is it really that obvious?

I guess I'm just too stubborn.

I suppose you just can't teach a 40 YO dog too many new tricks.

But seriously though, when you turn Audyssey on, does the sound clear up and the soundstage expand?

The only reason I'm not a fan of Audyssey YET is because the sound "seems" to decrease in clarity and the soundstage "seems" to compress every time I turn Audyssey and Audyssey Flat on.

Perhaps this clouds my judgement even more, but if room correction is so great, then how come Mark Levinson, Krell, and McIntosh do not put room correction in all their $20,000 preamps?

I will try Audyssey again if I move to a new house because perhaps some rooms benefit more than others.

 

[DenPureSound]

Thanks for the tidbit on the 4311.

OP, AcuDef hates Audyssey, but it is my #1 priority in terms of features. This is why the 4311 is particularly more desirable to me than the 4310, and at least where I* am concerned, if I didn't care about Audyssey, I would easily pick the 4310 and keep the benjamins in the pocket.

So the 4311 has the XT32 version, AND it also sports Sub EQ HT for independent correction of dual subs. Please note that Audyssey based units for dual subs are pretty expensive, whether it's $750 for the SVS ASEQ1, or perhaps more if you factor in the pro mic kit for the Auyssey stand alone Sub EQ.

I really don't feel that I need 9 Channels pumping out Audio in our Sm. Mstr. Bdrm at 16 x 18 x 8 or so, and therefore that drops me back down to the 4310, and pocket the extra shingles vs. the 4311.

Will initially set up FL/FR/CC/SL/SR, and One Sub (5.1), since I have the speakers (Infinity) already. Want the preouts for sure in so that I can add that amp later as required, although I don't feel that will be needed either.

Most likely later, I would add another two speakers for LW and RW - Wides, as I hear that gives you the next biggest bang for the buck in movie realism sounds vs. heights or rear backs. So far I think that dtsHD MA is the nicest soundstage for Movies, and I love those master audio DVD's in Blu-Ray format.

Or maybe better yet, get a nice Denon BD Player w/Denon Link 4th, but more research required on this subject, as my Sony BD player will need to be updated by then -- I do want NetFlix, Pandora, and preferably Napster streams coming thru the BD Player. Last time I checked only LG and Samsung players would stream Napster Audio.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...get a nice Denon BD Player w/Denon Link 4th...only LG and Samsung players would stream Napster Audio.

Denon BD w/DL4th is over-rated. I have their Universal BD player w/DL4. Nothing special. It looks great aesthetically, though.

I also have the LG BD with Netflix and all that other streams. Very cool for my family room. Got it for like $125 brand new on amazon, although the retail price was probably > $200. Great player.

 

[DenPureSound]

Denon BD w/DL4th is over-rated. I have their Universal BD player w/DL4. Nothing special. It looks great aesthetically, though.

I also have the LG BD with Netflix and all that other streams. Very cool for my family room. Got it for like $125 brand new on amazon, although the retail price was probably > $200. Great player.

Great input... I have the LG BD-590 w/250GB HDD, and just noticed that I can play a CD and Archive it to HDD at the same time (simultaneously). Now, with Audials Tunebite the whole world comes alive for those Napster streams off to archiving via CD Audio or DVD Data discs, plus cover art/lyrics/etc. Actually like the LG BD Player, but it has locked up a few times when opening some folders on the HDD, but otherwise very nice with Coupon Code for about $200.

What Model Number LG BD Player do you have?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Great input... I have the LG BD-590 w/250GB HDD, and just noticed that I can play a CD and Archive it to HDD at the same time (simultaneously). Now, with Audials Tunebite the whole world comes alive for those Napster streams off to archiving via CD Audio or DVD Data discs, plus cover art/lyrics/etc. Actually like the LG BD Player, but it has locked up a few times when opening some folders on the HDD, but otherwise very nice with Coupon Code for about $200.

What Model Number LG BD Player do you have?

I think it is the LG BD-670.

 

[DenPureSound]

Denon AVR-4310CI or AVR-3312CI

AcuDefTechGuy --

Here is the 64M $ question? Would you spend the $900 for a new 4310CI or spend the $1K for a new 3312CI?

With the older 4310CI what would I be missing vs. the 3312CI?

Don't know if the 4310CI has HDMI Pass-Thru, so when the Denon is in Standby mode it will pass thru the HDMI input sources?

Hard to compare the exact two models since the 4310CI is only on the archive list, and looks like their printout formats change from year to year.

Why not just bite the bullet and get the latest 3312CI for $100 more?

Did you notice the 3312CI is only 26 pounds vs. the 4310CI at 34.82 pounds? Why is that? Do you have any idea there, and that is a lot of weight delta.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AcuDefTechGuy --

Here is the 64M $ question? Would you spend the $900 for a new 4310CI or spend the $1K for a new 3312CI?

With the older 4310CI what would I be missing vs. the 3312CI?

Hard to compare the exact two models since the 4310CI is only on the archive list, and looks like their printout formats change from year to year.

Why not just bite the bullet and get the latest 3312CI for $100 more?

Did you notice the 3312CI is only 26 pounds vs. the 4310CI at 34.82 pounds? Why is that? Do you have any idea there, and that is a lot of weight delta.

I've dealed with Onecall before. They are pretty good with price negotiation. I would make offer for $800 for the 4310CI. I would buy it brand new for $850.

For my $1,000, I'm not a fan of lighter weight models, especially those made in China.

AVR4310 vs AVR3312:

$2K retail vs $1K retail
34.8 lbs vs 26.8 lbs
130WPC vs 125WPC
Burr Brown PCM-1791 DAC (113 SNR) vs AK4358 DAC (112 SNR)
Audyssey MultEqXt vs Audyssey MultEqXt
HDMI 1.3 vs HDMI 1.4
Japan vs China (made in)

 

[jostenmeat]

But seriously though, when you turn Audyssey on, does the sound clear up and the soundstage expand?

If I had to choose one word, I would say "tighter". So I guess "clear up" is closer in your wording, and not soundstage expansion (hey at least we didn't say velvety or chocolatey or faster). Ok, so acoustic treatments did nothing for you either- in my case, treatments did do something for me, I liked what they did quite a bit, and this was before Audyssey. When I finally ran MultEQ XT, the jump was about as big as the treatments themselves (but already installed at this point). That says a lot to me. I'm talking double digit panels weighing hundreds of lbs in total. The MultEQ XT is basically free, depending on how you look at it.

So, I can't remember the exact reason why, but there was a little while there where I disabled XT. Maybe it was during my sub build. Anyways, I have a friend that loves the blues and classic rock, and brings over concert BDs to watch, whether it's Jimi, the Rolling Stones, Last Waltz, etc. Well, he brought the movie The Doors over, and while not exactly a concert disc, there is a lot of music. He was downright disappointed with the SQ. I then told him my XT was disabled, and that could very well be the reason, as he was used to the SQ with XT engaged (he loves the SQ in my HT, and hence he chooses to watch the concerts at my place). He asked, Really, that tech makes that much of a difference? I replied that of course I cannot be absolutely certain, and in fact some people dislike this tech, but yes IMO it is very likely the reason that you think this title sucks . . .

Perhaps this clouds my judgement even more, but if room correction is so great, then how come Mark Levinson, Krell, and McIntosh do not put room correction in all their $20,000 preamps?

I don't know, but I have a question for you, does the $20,000 McIntosh even have bass mgmt?

Most likely later, I would add another two speakers for LW and RW - Wides, as I hear that gives you the next biggest bang for the buck in movie realism sounds vs. heights or rear backs. So far I think that dtsHD MA is the nicest soundstage for Movies, and I love those master audio DVD's in Blu-Ray format.

DTSMA does not have any more soundstage than mch PCM or TrueHD. MA and T-HD are simply compression algorithms for lossless mch audio. That said, mch lossless is good stuff!

The wides vs heights, etc, is more dependent on the spacing and room itself, as far as if it's even worth giving it a shot. Heights are used more often, if only because people usually don't have very wide rooms (especially when lengthwise setup is the best for acoustics).

Or maybe better yet, get a nice Denon BD Player w/Denon Link 4th, but more research required on this subject, as my Sony BD player will need to be updated by then -- I do want NetFlix, Pandora, and preferably Napster streams coming thru the BD Player. Last time I checked only LG and Samsung players would stream Napster Audio.

Why does it have to be in the BDP? Do you happen to use cable, and if so, would you consider a Tivo?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't know, but I have a question for you, does the $20,000 McIntosh even have bass mgmt?

I don't think so. It seems like the more they cost, the less features they have.

 

[DenPureSound]

I've dealed with Onecall before. They are pretty good with price negotiation. I would make offer for $800 for the 4310CI. I would buy it brand new for $850.

For my $1,000, I'm not a fan of lighter weight models, especially those made in China.

AVR4310 vs AVR3312:

$2K retail vs $1K retail
34.8 lbs vs 26.8 lbs
130WPC vs 125WPC
Burr Brown PCM-1791 DAC (113 SNR) vs AK4358 DAC (112 SNR)
Audyssey MultEqXt vs Audyssey MultEqXt
HDMI 1.3 vs HDMI 1.4
Japan vs China (made in)

READ This that just came IN here...

About the only thing the 3312 offers is 3D GUI overlay and Airplay installed. I'd go with the 4310 which does indeed offer HDMI Pass-thru. Keep in mind though with the 4310 you would be dealing with a potential network card that would have to be replaced which would involve shipping it to a repair center or as some owners have done, purchasing one on their own for about $140

Quote per JDS

I do NOT care about AirPlay at all, and 3D to me is useless if I have to buy and put on Glasses, as I already have them on, oops showing my age again.
But the NIC issue is a major concern, as I would not want to pay for shipping and a new NIC at $140 + Shipping on top of the Base Price. That would not be a good thing.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Keep in mind though with the 4310 you would be dealing with a potential network card

I delegate the networking function to my HTPCs and Server, not my Denon AVP-A1 or AVR-5308, so it would not be an issue for me.

However, if networking is solely via the AVR, then you better get the 3312 to be safe.

 

[DenPureSound]

Quote by JostenMeat:
Or maybe better yet, get a nice Denon BD Player w/Denon Link 4th, but more research required on this subject, as my Sony BD player will need to be updated by then -- I do want NetFlix, Pandora, and preferably Napster streams coming thru the BD Player. Last time I checked only LG and Samsung players would stream Napster Audio.
Why does it have to be in the BDP? Do you happen to use cable, and if so, would you consider a Tivo?
End of Quote

I have HD DirecTV and the DVR is integrated within the IRD. I guess I could use the Denon AVR for streaming if I want to run another Cat-5 or get another Bridge for Wifi router interface, instead of using the BD Player. But the Sony BD Player I have does not support Napster streams, only my LG Player (That is why I bought that LG BD-590) model which is in the other Large Room. Now, the Sony will stream NetFlix, Slacker and Pandora so that would be ok for the little time we would listen to music only in the HT room.

I do like the Multi Ch Stereo mode for low level listening, but mostly just listen to music in Stereo mode. Actually I like Multi Ch Stereo for HDTV more than DD coming in from DirecTV.

 

[DenPureSound]

If I had to choose one word, I would say "tighter". So I guess "clear up" is closer in your wording, and not soundstage expansion (hey at least we didn't say velvety or chocolatey or faster). Ok, so acoustic treatments did nothing for you either- in my case, treatments did do something for me, I liked what they did quite a bit, and this was before Audyssey. When I finally ran MultEQ XT, the jump was about as big as the treatments themselves (but already installed at this point). That says a lot to me. I'm talking double digit panels weighing hundreds of lbs in total. The MultEQ XT is basically free, depending on how you look at it.

So, I can't remember the exact reason why, but there was a little while there where I disabled XT. Maybe it was during my sub build. Anyways, I have a friend that loves the blues and classic rock, and brings over concert BDs to watch, whether it's Jimi, the Rolling Stones, Last Waltz, etc. Well, he brought the movie The Doors over, and while not exactly a concert disc, there is a lot of music. He was downright disappointed with the SQ. I then told him my XT was disabled, and that could very well be the reason, as he was used to the SQ with XT engaged (he loves the SQ in my HT, and hence he chooses to watch the concerts at my place). He asked, Really, that tech makes that much of a difference? I replied that of course I cannot be absolutely certain, and in fact some people dislike this tech, but yes IMO it is very likely the reason that you think this title sucks . . .



I don't know, but I have a question for you, does the $20,000 McIntosh even have bass mgmt?



DTSMA does not have any more soundstage than mch PCM or TrueHD. MA and T-HD are simply compression algorithms for lossless mch audio. That said, mch lossless is good stuff!

The wides vs heights, etc, is more dependent on the spacing and room itself, as far as if it's even worth giving it a shot. Heights are used more often, if only because people usually don't have very wide rooms (especially when lengthwise setup is the best for acoustics).



Why does it have to be in the BDP? Do you happen to use cable, and if so, would you consider a Tivo?

I delegate the networking function to my HTPCs and Server, not my Denon AVP-A1 or AVR-5308, so it would not be an issue for me.

However, if networking is solely via the AVR, then you better get the 3312 to be safe.

That is the way it looks to me so far, as I do NOT want to deal with NIC issues on the 4310CI.

In fact, if I could get another 3311CI for less than $800, and they should come down soon after the 3312 starts shipping in June 2011, I might just go for another 3311CI.

Also, the 3311/12 Models have the ability for Front Height FLH/FRH, and Front Wide FLW/FRW channels, not found on the 4310 right?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Also, the 3311/12 Models have the ability for Front Height FLH/FRH, and Front Wide FLW/FRW channels, not found on the 4310 right?

I noticed the 3311/3312 have the Front Height L/R, but I did not notice any Front Wide FLW/FRW.

Now the Denon 4311 has the Front Wide:

 

[AVRat]

They're there, look again. However, I believe the 331#s will only do 7.1. The configuration being 5.1 + 2 where the 2 is either SB OR FW OR FH.