Home Theater Advice - weak dialogue tweaking

[GitRDone]

Hello all:
First time posting here. I thank you in advance for your feedback!

Although I have set up a fairly simple home theater on a tight budget, I think I may not be getting my money's worth. Please note equip below.

My biggest complaint, is that I have a hard time hearing dialogue, so I am guessing that is due to an inadequate center-speaker. I tried setting surrounds at +/-0 and put the center speaker at +6. Any other advice?

My second biggest complaint, is that I barely hear anything (even when ear placed on physical speaker) coming from my surrounds, especially since turning up the center channel, unless there is big action (guns, Jurassic, etc.). Should I be hearing much, during a baseball game (HD/Dolby) or sitcom (HD/Dolby)?

I have tried to make some adjustments, on the receiver, but I'm not quite satisfied.
My family-room dimensions are a big drawback, 20'x20' (but actually open to kitchen, so add 15' width), 18' ceiling, and back wall is about 1/2 atrium style windows.

TV: Toshiba 56" DLP
DLP56MX195

Receiver: Onkyo
TX-SR602
100 Watt - 8 Ohm - 2 channel(s) ( Main ), 85 Watt - 8 Ohm - THD 0.08 % - 7 channel(s) ( Surround ), 165 Watt - 4 Ohm - 2 channel(s) ( Main ), 220 Watt - 3 Ohm - 2 channel(s) ( Main )

Cable HD/Dual DVR: Comcast / Motorola
DCT3416 I

Front: 2x Dayton Audio
KS820W 8" 2-way, in-wall
Specifications: 8" Kevlar® cone woofer with butyl rubber surround and phase plug, 1" pivoting silk dome tweeter *Power handling: 60 watts RMS/120 watts max *Impedance: 8 ohms *Frequency response: 35-20,000 Hz *SPL: 91 dB 1W/1m *Dimensions: 10-1/2" W x 14-1/2" L x 3-1/4" D

Center: 1x Dayton Audio
CCS-33S 3-Way
Specifications: *Woofer: Two 3-3/4” polypropylene cones with rubber surrounds *Tweeter: 5/8” polycarbonate ferrofluid cooled *Supertweeter: 5/8” piezoelectric *Power handling: 80 watts RMS/120 watts max *Impedance: 8 ohms *Frequency response: 100–20,000 Hz *SPL: 87 dB 1W/1m *Dimensions: 4-1/2" H x 12-1/2" W x 6" D

Rear: 2x Dayton Audio
KS620W 6 1/2" 2-way, in-wall
Specifications: 6 1/2" Kevlar® cone woofer with butyl rubber surround and phase plug, 1" pivoting silk dome tweeter *Power handling: 50 watts RMS/100 watts max *Impedance: 8 ohms *Frequency response: 45-20,000 Hz *SPL: 91 dB 1W/1m *Dimensions: 8-5/8" W x 12-1/8" L x 3-1/8" D

Sub: 1x Dayton Audio
SUB-120 12" 150 watt, powered
Specifications: *12" long throw woofer *150 watt amp *Low pass filter: 40~180 Hz, 12 dB/octave *Frequency response: 25-180 Hz *Exterior dimensions: 14-3/4" W x 17-5/8" H x 18" D

Remote: Logitech Harmony 670 universal

Thank you!!!
-Andrew

 

[MidnightSensi]

Are your speakers connected correctly (+ to + and - to -)? That could be the dialog problem.

Surrounds are generally fairly quiet. In some of that programming it might not even be broadcasted in surround formats.


How loud do you have the volume?

 

[Alex2507]

Hi Andrew and welcome to AH.

You mentioned that you have tried to make some adjustments on the rec'r. What did you make the adjustments with? I'm not sure how much exploring you have done on AH. What did you set your receiver's cross over settings at? Let me suggest doing your level calibration with an Avia II Calibration Disc and a Radio Shack Analog SPL Meter. The Avia disc will address phase/polarity issues as MidnightSensi already mentioned. It's about $100 for the two items. As far as I'm concerned they are must have tools.

Your center does look like the weak link in your speakers but I would calibrate/level match your existing speakers first and then make a determination on the center. Even with great speakers you end up with poor sound quality if the levels are off and your x-over frequencies are messed up.

In Dolby Digital the surrounds are quiet a lot. In Dolby PL there will be sound coming from them always IIRC but the levels need to be set with test tones and an SPL meter of some kind.

Alex

 

[jostenmeat]

In addition to Alex's comments, it could be speaker implementation, speaker positioning, receiver/audio settings, as well as connections used.

For instance:
RCA cables only get you 2.0
Make sure to enable surround sound in the STB.
Check DRC settings in both STB and receiver.
horiz MTM speakers will cancel critical freq's off-axis.
shoving a center speaker inside a cabinet will have deleterious effects to audio.

*I've found that auto-DRC being triggered by some titles such as Iron Man have profoundly terrible effects on intelligible dialogue.

good luck.

 

[the grunt]

In addition to what has already been recommended you might want to check that both of your center’s woofers are working. If one isn’t then it might be lagging behind your other speakers.

You are not likely to hear much from your surround speakers during sports or regular TV viewing. You can try using your receiver’s Dolby PLII setting to see if it sends more sound to the surrounds. For regular TV I use the “all channel stereo” feature which sends everything to each speaker (except what’s crossed over to the subwoofer). It helps created a pseudo surround effect for programs that don’t have any or good surround effects recorded in them. Your receiver likely has other built in effects that you could try to get more from your regular TV programming.

As was already said most surround effects are subtle and designed to complement rather than compete with the front speakers. You may just be like me and prefer to run your surround speakers a little louder. However, as was said you would benefit from getting a SPL meter and calibration disk to get a good starting point and then tweak to your personal tastes from there.

 

[GitRDone]

Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks: Sensi, Alex, Jos, Grunt!!!
Props for using "deleterious" in a sentence...it is today's Word of the Day!

My speakers are properly connected (+ / -)...and I should clarify, I can definitely hear dialogue, it just seemed to be a little drowned-out at certain times.
I have connected the Cable/DVR box to the receiver (no HDMI ports) via a Optical Digital audio cable. I have connected the Cable/DVR box to my television via HDMI cable.
I normally have the volume at 40-50.
The receiver automatically uses the DolbyDigital signal, when present, and switches to DolbyPL-II if not receiving DolbyDig.

When I mentioned adjustments I made, I was referring to tweaking the various settings available in the receiver. I had some better results last nite with: Surrounds +0, Sub +0, Center +6. I changed the main crossover setting from 100-or-120 to 80. I also turned on the Cinema Filter (seems to tighten the range of sounds that sometimes over-power the dialogue).

Should I be adjusting the "Equalizer Settings" for each of the speakers? I am given options to adjust Db levels at breakpoints (80Hz, 250Hz, 800Hz, 2.5kHz, 8kHz)?

I like the suggestion for the calibration disc and monitor...
Should I even bother with Onkyo's speaker set-up microphone?

Do you think my center speaker is just simply undersized...or given the specs, does size even matter?

Thank you!!!

 

[MidnightSensi]

Thanks: Sensi, Alex, Jos, Grunt!!!
Props for using "deleterious" in a sentence...it is today's Word of the Day!

My speakers are properly connected (+ / -)...and I should clarify, I can definitely hear dialogue, it just seemed to be a little drowned-out at certain times.
I have connected the Cable/DVR box to the receiver (no HDMI ports) via a Optical Digital audio cable. I have connected the Cable/DVR box to my television via HDMI cable.
I normally have the volume at 40-50.
The receiver automatically uses the DolbyDigital signal, when present, and switches to DolbyPL-II if not receiving DolbyDig.

When I mentioned adjustments I made, I was referring to tweaking the various settings available in the receiver. I had some better results last nite with: Surrounds +0, Sub +0, Center +6. I changed the main crossover setting from 100-or-120 to 80. I also turned on the Cinema Filter (seems to tighten the range of sounds that sometimes over-power the dialogue).

Should I be adjusting the "Equalizer Settings" for each of the speakers? I am given options to adjust Db levels at breakpoints (80Hz, 250Hz, 800Hz, 2.5kHz, 8kHz)?

I like the suggestion for the calibration disc and monitor...
Should I even bother with Onkyo's speaker set-up microphone?

Do you think my center speaker is just simply undersized...or given the specs, does size even matter?

Thank you!!!

I would use the microphone, you might just have a midrange dip it needs to take care of. When you run the Audyssey it will override any equalizer settings you have, but you should otherwise leave those flat unless you are positive there is a peak or dip in that particular range.

Try the Audyssey (with the microphone) and see if that solves your problem.

 

[BEARPAW]

Center Dialogue Weak

Might try investing in a nice 3 way center speaker. These are different and much more efficient for reproducing voice and wider spectrum of other sound effects most 2 ways just aren't designed to capture. The basic set up is a midrange and a tweeter in the middle of two woofers. The basic 2way rig is doens't have a tweeter just midrange. I would focus your efforts on calibration via some of the methods mentioned in early posts and a robust 3way center. the rest of your set up is fine.

 

[Davemcc]

The other thing to consider is the room itself. Sound reflecting off the walls may cause the dialog to seem muddled and hard to hear. You might want to consider some simple room treatments, esp. directly behind the front three speakers to absorb the first reflections. There's a very good chance that will clear up your dialog.