Home HDTV Over Cat6

[Steve Katz]

Hi - I have been researching distributing multi-source HDMI over CAT6 using HDMI to Cat6 transmitters, a many-to-many network switch, and complementary receivers at each HD-TV.

My questions are:

Are all these systems basically the same (my longest run will be 100')? I have no interest in 4k. The prices seem to vary widely.

My biggest question is can/do they all pass Digital Rights Management (DRM). Most manufactures never mention it but they do show DVD players and cable boxes in their block diagrams.

I would appreciate to know what specs to look for, I already know that I should use 550 MHz shielded solid core CAT6 cable.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Steve

 

[Steve Katz]

If this helps, the system I am looking at is the: J-Tech Digital ® ProAV ® Unlimited N x N HDMI Extender by Single Ethernet Cable up to 400ft (Network Switch). Is anyone familiar with and/or used or own this system. I hate to buy it to find out there is a problem with encoded material.

http://www.jtechdigital.com/j-tech-digital-r-proav-r-unlimited-n-x-n-hdmi-extender-matrix-switch-switcher-extender-by-single-ethernet-cable-up-to-400ft-network-switch.html

 

[everettT]

If this helps, the system I am looking at is the: J-Tech Digital ® ProAV ® Unlimited N x N HDMI Extender by Single Ethernet Cable up to 400ft (Network Switch). Is anyone familiar with and/or used or own this system. I hate to buy it to find out there is a problem with encoded material.

http://www.jtechdigital.com/j-tech-digital-r-proav-r-unlimited-n-x-n-hdmi-extender-matrix-switch-switcher-extender-by-single-ethernet-cable-up-to-400ft-network-switch.html

I didn't see what speed for transfer. Didn't see what audio can be passed. I didn't see what version of they hdmi spec. I'd definitely find those out. I'm weary of cheaper units.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

https://www.ramelectronics.net/hdbtex70.aspx

 

[Steve Katz]

I didn't see what speed for transfer. Didn't see what audio can be passed. I didn't see what version of they hdmi spec. I'd definitely find those out. I'm weary of cheaper units.

I agree with you completely. That is why I posted here and why I am looking for recommendations of systems that are known to work. I do not care about 4k or Atmos so maybe I can save some $'s.

Thanks for your help...s

 

[Steve Katz]

I agree with you completely. That is why I posted here and why I am looking for recommendations of systems that are known to work. I do not care about 4k or Atmos so maybe I can save some $'s.

Thanks for your help...s

I just had this system recommended. It is more pricey but they assured me that it can do everything. Has anyone used this system? You do get what you pay for...

WolfPack™ 4K 8x8 HDMI HDBaseT Matrix Switch Using POE Receivers - See more at:

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/8x8-hdmi-hdbaset-matrix-switch.html

 

[Bucknekked]

If this helps, the system I am looking at is the: J-Tech Digital ® ProAV ® Unlimited N x N HDMI Extender by Single Ethernet Cable up to 400ft (Network Switch). Is anyone familiar with and/or used or own this system. I hate to buy it to find out there is a problem with encoded material.

http://www.jtechdigital.com/j-tech-digital-r-proav-r-unlimited-n-x-n-hdmi-extender-matrix-switch-switcher-extender-by-single-ethernet-cable-up-to-400ft-network-switch.html

Steve Katz
I apologize at being able to offer just an anecdotal comment. When my daughter bought her latest home she and one of my sons spent a lot of time (and a lot of her money) putting in a many to many HDMI switch and CAT 6 cabling scheme to all the rooms in her house. I will save you the details, but, it has never worked as imagined. You are correct in doing your homework and poking at every detail. I believe you can assume nothing, and need to verify everything. Once you verify a claim, get a 2nd opinion.

Sorry, that's all I've got, but sometimes a cautionary tale is worth it.

 

[Steve Katz]

nothing, and need to verify everything. Once you verify a claim, get a 2nd opinion.

Sorry, that's all I've got, but sometimes a cautionary tale is worth it.[/QUOTE]

I talked to the owner/designer at http://www.hdtvsupply.com/8x8-hdmi-hdbaset-matrix-switch.html
He clearly stated that he stands behind his products. It's more than the other link I gave but but with the owners assurance, and that it is made in the USA it gives me confidence.
Thanks for your comment
Steve

 

[everettT]

Wolfpack seems to get favorable reviews

 

[Steve Katz]

Wolfpack seems to get favorable reviews

Thanks. If anyone is interested I know of a quality company (been dealing with them for 10 years) who makes cables with connectors cut to order including CAT6

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thanks. If anyone is interested I know of a quality company (been dealing with them for 10 years) who makes cables with connectors cut to order including CAT6

bjc cables would your best best. I might know a thing or two about ethernet cabling....

 

[BMXTRIX]

Keep in mind HDBT is not networked based, it is point-to-point cabling and can't be run through any networking switches. The first unit you linked is IP based and as long as the switch deals with the bandwidth, then it may work alright. The issue with IP based systems is that you are leaving the HDMI world completely. You are recompressing the video signal from IP to some compressed format, in real time, then decompressing it at every TV. So, quality can take quite the hit.

Likewise, you don't have any obvious way to choose sources or anything like that over IP. With HDBT switchers you generally can operate them via IR or by RS232 control. There are other options which may be available as well.

Now, the issue with HDBT, which is really a HDMI issue.

You can get stereo, OR you can get surround sound, but you can't get both. Most HDBT switchers are very limited in their EDID capabilities, and can only support the lowest format common to all displays. Some allow you to force a format, but then that format may not be compatible with all displays.

Resolution is no different. If you have 1080p/60 support on every TV connected, then this shouldn't be an issue, but if you are missing it on one display, it may impact the EDID of the entire system.

Cat-6 should be used at a minimum, and you really should learn to terminate the cables yourself. You want solid core cat-6 for all the runs as they are designed to handle the distance better. While shielded cable is recommended, it is not required for runs up to about 100 feet like you are dealing with.

I run a 16x16 HDBT switching system in my home and had to address most of these issues to ensure that I wouldn't run into them down the line, so they are concerns.

I personally would love to get and test the J-River product to see how it works. My greatest fear is lousy encoders that look like garbage, and difficulty in day-to-day operation. Reliability shouldn't be an issue, but likely is a big one. It probably wouldn't work with my audio distribution system either since those wouldn't be hit by encoding delays.

I'm pretty happy with my HDBT setup at the moment, though I think I'm going to pull a bunch of shielded cat-6 for long term reliability and higher resolution support.

 

[Steve Katz]

cat-6 for long term reliability and higher resolution support.[/QUOTE]

Great reply! I agree with every point. I'm a retired sound guy so anything over 20KHz makes me nervous.

I've been reading the Wolfpack manuals and it looks like they address some of your points (links below)

The wife and I are building our retirement dream house (on a budget). The thought that one could send video different sources to different rooms is what it should be. We are looking forward to grandchildren.

Yes, I'm afraid of quality issues, so I'm also putting HDMI cables directly to the two main locations, just in case.

From building studios, I know how the weakest link works. I've been researching cable, connectors, etc. Wolfpack has an informative white paper on installation and the contractor for the track house has agreed to help re wiring.

Please let me know what you think. When it comes to video I'm lost...s

http://site.hdtvsupply.com/User_Manuals/hdtvmt0808vl2_um.pdf

http://site.hdtvsupply.com/EDID/edid.pdf

http://site.hdtvsupply.com/cat5.doc

 

[everettT]

Definitely agree with bmx, pick a good crimp tool and a continuity reader , then it's fast an easy. I make up most of my cables, except HDMI.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Definitely agree with bmx, pick a good crimp tool and a continuity reader , then it's fast an easy. I make up most of my cables, except HDMI.

Crimping your own cables is the right way to go, but I would NOT call it the easy or fast (unless you've already done it 100 times)

 

[BMXTRIX]

I agree that making your own cables, when you aren't experienced, isn't really fast. You need good wire cutters/strippers for low-voltage, and good crimpers and terminations. But, it's really not hard. It's not super easy, but not hard. Just takes time to do.

The number one issue with HDBT is the cable. If you leave it all up to someone else, then when (not if) something fails, you can't fix it yourself.

I've gotta say that I have a couple of clients who have recently gotten HDBT installations from me using cat-5e cabling, and they are all working properly. The cat-5e was already in place, so I had no choice on the matter, but it does work in typical residential installations. That said, I would prefer to use a decent cat-6 cable.

In my own home I'm about to go through the upgrade from cat-5e to cat6-STP cable. But, that will be a process, and I'm having a coworker terminate everything for me. At some point I'll get a crimper and learn to do it myself. I just want someone experienced as STP cable is a different beast than standard cat-6.

Anyway, the product looks good. I would stick with the industry recommendation of using 568-B terminations on all cat cables. Keep in mind that all sources have to be close to the switcher as the switcher only has HDMI inputs to it, none of the inputs are HDBT.

If you decide that you want some components, like a Blu-ray Disc player, located away from the switcher, then you can use a long HDMI cable, or you may use a HDMI extender to take it to the input of the switcher.

As a rule, I tend to pull 3 cat cables to every location. This gives me a cable for video, a cable for control, and a cable for network. Often, this leaves the 'control' cable as a spare.

There are some HDBT units which include Ethernet on the connection as well, but this unit does not inject Ethernet into the HDBT transmitter, so you will need that separately.

Generally speaking, this isn't an inexpensive option, but it does work, and can create a very unique setup. We are up to about 10 sources now which we can view on any TV in the home and control them through our remote system nicely.

 

[Steve Katz]

Having made audio cables for over 50 years, with no pads left on my fingers to prove it, I understand what you are saying but have a personal concern. Back in the 70's console wiring switched to telephone blocks. For me, a terminal dyslexic, it was a nightmare, bad contacts abounded. Usually I ended up solder sweating most of them. When I built my project studio I had most of my cables made outside by my friend. Not much more money and all were pre-tested. (he gets his wire and connectors cheaper then I can).

I do see the value of having a j45 tool around the house but as my eyesight is going the thought of taking my magnifying light from room to room is not fun.

To BMX - what brand matrix and receivers are you using? Any issues with copy protection?

I plan to put all the gear in a nightstand I'm designing with shelves and barriers between each piece to prevent stray IR. I also plan to terminate all the cat6 lines in the same cabinet so the HDMI runs will be short. I am also planning on vent holes and cooling fans if necessary. Fortuitously my wife is hot stuff so the bedroom is the coldest in the house. I am also considering a dedicated AC line from the panel terminated in a surge protector.

Thank you to all for your help and comments...

 

[BMXTRIX]

Be aware of potential fan noise from equipment that could get loud. Not sure of all your sources, but my equipment does kick of a fair bit of noise from the internal fans. Not crazy, but enough that I'm glad I put it all into a more isolated area of the basement.

I am using Crestron throughout my home, so it is a DM-MD16x16 switcher. It is entirely card based so I have a combination of HDMI and HDBT inputs and outputs. The input cards include DSP to extract stereo audio from surround sound up to DTS-MA and TrueHD audio while preserving the original mix. The sources mostly reside in the rack, but I'm adding local inputs in many of the rooms for quick connection points on wall plates.

TVs have HDBT receivers with integrated scalers which can take any signal up to 1080p with 3D and deliver the proper resolution the display supports.

Then I use a Crestron RF handheld remote to pick a source and control it so all rooms, regardless of value of equipment, work the same. It's a pretty nice setup. I do not have any recent photos of it and the stuff I put up was from before I had the DM switcher in place.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Be aware of potential fan noise from equipment that could get loud. Not sure of all your sources, but my equipment does kick of a fair bit of noise from the internal fans. Not crazy, but enough that I'm glad I put it all into a more isolated area of the basement.

I am using Crestron throughout my home, so it is a DM-MD16x16 switcher. It is entirely card based so I have a combination of HDMI and HDBT inputs and outputs. The input cards include DSP to extract stereo audio from surround sound up to DTS-MA and TrueHD audio while preserving the original mix. The sources mostly reside in the rack, but I'm adding local inputs in many of the rooms for quick connection points on wall plates.

TVs have HDBT receivers with integrated scalers which can take any signal up to 1080p with 3D and deliver the proper resolution the display supports.

Then I use a Crestron RF handheld remote to pick a source and control it so all rooms, regardless of value of equipment, work the same. It's a pretty nice setup. I do not have any recent photos of it and the stuff I put up was from before I had the DM switcher in place.

In our NY office we have fairly large room - it could comfortably hold 300-400 people. It includes 3-4 HD hi-end cameras, touch screen remotes,wireless mics, 8 TV screens with external stereo speakers and a large 100" (or so) TV on wheeled rack. My point is I have seen the rack which holds backend for this room - it's significantly smaller (about 1/4 rack size - about 12-15U) and less impressive that BMX has in his basement.

 

[Steve Katz]

I'm well aware of equipment/fan noise. For my home studio I put up a splayed demising wall filled with 6"'s of mineral wool where I keep the computers behind a closed solid core door (it has it's own ac duct. The wall/door space serves 4 purposes, one more level of isolation from the 2 3/4" double glassed windows, isolates me from the computers, I made the spaceinto Hemholtz resonater tuned to the studio resonate frequency, lastly it took a square room to a 1:66 ratio with no parallel walls, I've got no standing wave to speak of. Did I mention there is a 3 foot deep trap at the back wall filled floor to ceiling with mineral wool. The console room is so quiet that there was a big accident in front of my house and I didn't know it until I walked the dog!