High End for High End?

[Stripes]

I've been reading on some other forums and the general view is that if you have high end speakers, such as the Paradigm Sig S4's for instance, you need a high end pre/pro/amp or receiver to actually get good sound from them. I'm thinking about getting the Yamaha 663, am I going to be disapointed with this combo am I putting to much money into the speakers and not enough into the equipment?

 

[leo1058]

Heck no!!!!. Your on the right track. Speakers make the most audio difference of all equipment.
The Yamaha 663 seems to be a good AVR. As long as your not listening to speakers at a
ear bleeding level for a long period of time ,you should be fine.

 

[WmAx]

I've been reading on some other forums and the general view is that if you have high end speakers, such as the Paradigm Sig S4's for instance, you need a high end pre/pro/amp or receiver to actually get good sound from them. I'm thinking about getting the Yamaha 663, am I going to be disappointed with this combo am I putting to much money into the speakers and not enough into the equipment?

Who knows what 'high-end' is, exactly? But I am not ware of Paradigm making speakers near the fidelity/accuracy as some others that are available. But even if they, for example, make a speaker on par with the B&W 802D in regards to linearity and low resonance - the only issue to pay attention to for amplification is that the amplifier is stable into the impedance swing/electrical phase swing of the speaker with sufficient power to drive the speaker to the SPLs that you desire. The receiver you mention will probably be a transparent amplification device unless that speaker has an unusual load demand. I would pretty much recommend good quality pro amplifiers for ANY price speaker if transparent, high power amplification that can drive virtually any load is desired for a low price. Many modern surround receivers with pre-amp outputs make superb pre-amp stages. They might not be as 'cool' or 'prestigious' as some high-end device, but they will perform identically in many cases. A combo of a receiver as a pre-amp and a stack of good pro-amplifiers makes for a superbly performing set-up. As a huge bonus, having external amplifiers allows you to insert loudspeaker management/processing systems such as the Behringer DCX2496 between the pre-amp and amplifier(s). Such a device has substantially higher degree of adjustment/configuration as compared to the xover/eq system found in virtually all receivers - allowing for much better integration of subwoofer(s) and mains/surrounds and custom tonal adjustment(s).

-Chris

 

[Stripes]

The receiver you mention will probably be a transparent amplification device unless that speaker has an unusual load demand.

-Chris

Sorry, what do you mean by transparent?

 

[bandphan]

unaffecting to the sound

 

[WmAx]

Sorry, what do you mean by transparent?

Bandphan is correct in regards to what I meant. To be more specific, a speaker that is actually neutral/transparent will have a smooth and flat on axis AND off axis frequency response - along with a low resonance cabinet systems. A neutral/transparent speaker system will also have inaudible distortion levels during use. Most of these things are not very difficult to accomplish for a reasonable production cost with exception to the cabinet resonance. But this is a significant issue - cabinet resonance causes the timbre of instruments/voices to be distorted - thus masking the unique timbrel differences of various instruments/voices.

-Chris

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I definitely got better sound by upgrading from an ordinary mass-market receiver and CD changer to an entry-level hi-fi integrated and CD player, with the same speakers.

 

[Pyrrho]

I've been reading on some other forums and the general view is that if you have high end speakers, such as the Paradigm Sig S4's for instance, you need a high end pre/pro/amp or receiver to actually get good sound from them. I'm thinking about getting the Yamaha 663, am I going to be disapointed with this combo am I putting to much money into the speakers and not enough into the equipment?

No. It is a myth that you need high end electronics to enjoy high end speakers. The myth is the result of:

1) Some speakers are a difficult impedance or extremely inefficient, and therefore require better (generally, more expensive) amplification. Most of the difficult impedances are found in high end speakers. But many high end speakers are not a difficult impedance.

2) Salesmen make more money if you buy expensive things, and if they see you can afford expensive speakers, they tend to be shameless about trying to bleed you dry with other expensive equipment.

3) There is a lot of BS in the marketing and claims of audiophiles, and therefore "magic" wires and other things are said to be required. Basically, the best speakers that money can buy will have greater frequency response anomalies and higher distortion than any decently made "mid-fi" amplifier operated within its design limits.

I have used speakers that retail for more than $6000 with a receiver that retailed for about $600. It worked great. (I now am using a receiver that retails for about $1600 with the same speakers, but that is only because I wanted more features. The sound is the same.) It all depends upon the difficulty of driving the speakers whether you can get away with a regular receiver.

If you want the best sound for your money, you will spend with that kind of difference in cost between speakers and receiver. Spend the majority of your money on speakers for the best possible sound for your money.

 

[Penny]

No. It is a myth that you need high end electronics to enjoy high end speakers. The myth is the result of:

1) Some speakers are a difficult impedance or extremely inefficient, and therefore require better (generally, more expensive) amplification. Most of the difficult impedances are found in high end speakers. But many high end speakers are not a difficult impedance.

2) Salesmen make more money if you buy expensive things, and if they see you can afford expensive speakers, they tend to be shameless about trying to bleed you dry with other expensive equipment.

3) There is a lot of BS in the marketing and claims of audiophiles, and therefore "magic" wires and other things are said to be required. Basically, the best speakers that money can buy will have greater frequency response anomalies and higher distortion than any decently made "mid-fi" amplifier operated within its design limits.

I have used speakers that retail for more than $6000 with a receiver that retailed for about $600. It worked great. (I now am using a receiver that retails for about $1600 with the same speakers, but that is only because I wanted more features. The sound is the same.) It all depends upon the difficulty of driving the speakers whether you can get away with a regular receiver.

If you want the best sound for your money, you will spend with that kind of difference in cost between speakers and receiver. Spend the majority of your money on speakers for the best possible sound for your money.

Let me get this straight; you don't believe all the BS coming from the components industry but you do buy all the BS coming from the speaker industry? Who's to say you're right and he's wrong?

 

[Pyrrho]

Let me get this straight; you don't believe all the BS coming from the components industry but you do buy all the BS coming from the speaker industry? Who's to say you're right and he's wrong?

No, I don't believe all the BS coming from the speaker industry. There are many bogus claims made about speakers, too (Bose, anyone? http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38446). Generally speaking, however, it takes a considerable amount of money to get speakers with low distortion and a wide, flat frequency response. It does not cost a considerable amount of money to get that in an amplifier. These are things that can be measured and verified. They can also be confirmed with level matched, double blind testing. Just do some searching online for these matters to check it out for yourself.