High end Focal or high end B&W?

W

waffles

Audiophyte
I am really new into high end speakers. I have had a pair of Grado SR 325i headphones for a while, but am finally moving into getting high end speakers. At a local Hifi store I was offered a pair of Focal Micro Utopia Be with stands for $6500. Or I can pick up a pair of B&W 804s for $4500. I haven't heard the B&W's, but tomorrow I might drive an hour to check them out in Seattle.

I am not too worried about bass, I just love the music playback from the Focal. I live in an apartment, so bass isn't that big of a deal as I can't turn it up that loud anyway. I didn't want to spend more than $6000 on 2 speakers and an amp or receiver, but after listening to the Focals it might be worth it. I am in the Navy right now and have enough money to buy the focals and a nice amp. In a couple years I will be getting out and going to college, so I won't have the money to upgrade and need to get it right this time with gear that will last.

I am thinking about using a 2 channel integrated amp instead of a receiver with everything. I am looking at the Primare I21 or the Cambridge 840A.

If you have any advice on other speakers to look at or advice on the ones I am looking at please let me know.

Thanks a lot.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
I can recommend to you the best value and sound possible for a given price range, based on my extensive work and knowledge with speaker design and the related perceptual research that dictates human auditory response to measured objective parameters.

1) B&W 805S Speaker pair: $2800/pair

2) Dayton P/N: 302-810 pre-finished Sealed SWC-2 2.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet pair: $320/pair

3) JL Audio 10W7 pair: $800/pair (Alternately, get the 12W7 for a little more, and get even deeper bass response and more SPL capability at lowest frequencies.)

4) Speaker Stands for 805S: $??? Your Choice.

5) Yamaha P2500S amplifier: 250x2 @ 8 Ohms (for 805S speakers): $400

6) Yamaha P5000S amplifer: 700x2 @ 4 Ohms (for JL10W7 speakers): $600

7) Behringer DCX2496 crossover/loudspeaker management DSP: $275

Total: $5195 + shipping, taxes, etc.

Now, for some basic explanations.

The B&W speakers above have much lower resonance as compared to most high-fi bookshelf speakers. Critical for mid-range realism and timbre accuracy. They have a very flat amplitude response and fairly good off axis symmetry. They have drivers with very little resonance. These things are critical to give you a neutral response mid-range and treble module that will allow you to adjust it's sound to your preference.

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU LIKE THE SOUND OF THE BOOKSHELF SPEAKER WHEN USED ALONE WITH NO DSP. What is critical is that it is netural - a blank slate to start with - so that the adjustments to your preferred sound is possible. Hardly any speakers are well suited to this task.

You will use a Behringer DCX2496 to apply tonal modifications. It is a precision, high grade device. It will allow you to achieve any sound signature that you desire, when used on an extremely neutral speaker. I will, if you need, describe exactly, the filter settings to use and how to adjust them to find your preference.

The subwoofers are simply a good investment here. You will only have to do one thing: cut a hole in each cabinet and attach the drivers. The cabinets are fully assembled and have a pained finish applied. You don't need any special skills! Or you can pay a car audio shop to cut the holes for you. Probably $20-$30 charge if you don't want to do it. The drivers I picked are ideally suited for small sealed cabinet, and will have perfect fidelity at virtually any SPL you could desire, regardless if it's low or high. Even if you don't think you need subs of this capability now, you will be future proofed, and you simply won't get pre-made subs anywhere near this quality for this price. You will get inferior product if you by pre-made subs of the same price range, and even if you spend considerably more, the commercial subs will not match these, until you get to vastly higher price range, in the range of 3-4x the dollar amount.

You will use the DCX also, to cross over/cut frequencies to each of the mid-treble modules and the subs, to allow them to combine with each other with absolute perfection. When you have stereo subs, and each one is placed within a few feet of each main channel, and you have a powerful crossover, it is trival to get perfect integration so that they act as one speaker source. Also, the DCX is powerful to the extent, that you can adjust and control the subjective 'tightness' of the bass signature to get your preferred bass. A feature everyone would love, but most don't even realize it's possible.

The amps are absolutely transparent that I suggested. They are pro amps, so they are an excellent value compared to home amps. At the same time, they are manufactured to a better quality than most home amps, as to be more reliable and endure professional use/abuse. These amps will not activate fans in home use. They are totally silent.

If you were to compare my above suggestion to full range speakers, on a potential sound quality comparison basis, then I can safely tell you this would likely equal single solutions costing in the 15-20K range, easily. This is because you are combining the most critical aspects, and then applying custom adjust ability to fit your preferences.

BTW, don't forget the room treatments. A critical key to ideal sound quality for any speaker.

Please, ask any questions that you need answered.

-Chris
 
Last edited:
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Very nice little system setup there WmAx.... Powerful, clean and adaptable.

The JL subs are a nice touch... hard to match the performance of the W7 series.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
waffles -

If you liked the Focal's why not just go with them? Just curious...

I personally do not think any of B&W's stuff is worth while until you get to the 802D's (which are above your price range). Your opinion may differ though, so it's good to know that you're going to go listen to their stuff.

Speakers are WAY too subjective to purchased based on other's opinions, something I am sure you already know. That's why your idea to go out and audition is simply the best thing you can do for yourself. Only your ears should and will decide if speaker A, B, C etc, is right for you.

Some other brands in that price range that I think make decent stuff (my opinion) are:

Paradigm
Monitor Audio
Dali
Dynaudio
NHT
Vandersteen
Kef
Revel
Totem
Era
JM Labs - Focal
Aerial Acoustics
Usher


And for ID (Internet Direct):

Salk Sound
AV123
Ascend Acoustics

You're on the right track by auditioning before you buy, but if you want to go with ID, they offer a 30 day in-home trail period. If you don't like them you send them back for a full refund.

Concerning integrateds I'd like to add the Musical Fidelity A5.5 to your list. It gets great reviews and is gorgeous IMO. Otherwise a Modwright preamp with a McCormack amp would be a killer combo.

Good with your search. I hope you find something that blows your mind.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Speakers are WAY too subjective to purchased based on other's opinions, something I am sure you already know. That's why your idea to go out and audition is simply the best thing you can do for yourself. Only your ears should and will decide if speaker A, B, C etc, is right for you.
Perhaps you should read my post again(assuming you read it the first time). You seem to have missed the entire point/purpose of that post, which is that with the suggested system I outlined, it is adaptable to whatever sound signature the owner desires, unlike the overwhelming majority of other systems.

-Chris
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Perhaps you should read my post again(assuming you read it the first time). You seem to have missed the entire point/purpose of that post, which is that with the suggested system I outlined, it is adaptable to whatever sound signature the owner desires, unlike the overwhelming majority of other systems.

-Chris
Easy there killer - I wasn't responding to your post but rather the OP's. You must have misunderstood my intentions. ;) Please, don't assume.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Easy there killer - I wasn't responding to your post but rather the OP's. You must have misunderstood my intentions. ;) Please, don't assume.

There's room for both suggestions. I marvel at Chris' understanding of acoustics, equipment and ability to perfect the sound quality. When presented with this option, some people will certainly decide to pursue that route.

That's not to say that path is best for everybody. I think most people have a comfort level that's more in the range of plug and play. These people are better off choosing from among the many commercially available products in their price range, even if it's not the sonically ideal solution. There are some fine speakers out there that can satisfy most people right out of the box.

I think it's great that both options are presented to the buyer to determine his own level of comfort and expertise in setting up a system, especially at that price point.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am really new into high end speakers. I have had a pair of Grado SR 325i headphones for a while, but am finally moving into getting high end speakers. At a local Hifi store I was offered a pair of Focal Micro Utopia Be with stands for $6500. Or I can pick up a pair of B&W 804s for $4500. I haven't heard the B&W's, but tomorrow I might drive an hour to check them out in Seattle.
I don't think B&W considers the 804S high end. They do sound good, but no where need high end.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
I was by no means bashing any product or anyone's opinion. I was just listing other options for the OP. Take no offense fellas.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
I hope this little pissing match hasn't chased away the OP. Many of the technical details here are over my head. I can only imagine how the OP feels, overwhelmed probably. I fail to see how the OP's interests are being served here.
Good point. I have asked moderation to move the relevant posts to a separate thread.

This thread can be found here for those interested.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
There's room for both suggestions. I marvel at Chris' understanding of acoustics, equipment and ability to perfect the sound quality. When presented with this option, some people will certainly decide to pursue that route.

That's not to say that path is best for everybody. I think most people have a comfort level that's more in the range of plug and play. These people are better off choosing from among the many commercially available products in their price range, even if it's not the sonically ideal solution. There are some fine speakers out there that can satisfy most people right out of the box.

I think it's great that both options are presented to the buyer to determine his own level of comfort and expertise in setting up a system, especially at that price point.
Bingo. I must have hit a nerve or something.

Sorry to have caused any ruckus.

Best of luck to the OP and his search.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top