Help with selecting speakers

S

Sirshendu M

Audiophyte
Hi,

I am seeking some advice from you in this forum on speakers. Have just got myself a NAD C355BEE (80W per channel) amp with NAD C515BEE CD player. Am running them on my old Mission M74i 2.5 way tower speakers.
The set up is giving me quite a bit of a loud bass - which at times can be a bit boomy, but i am missing out on the detailing in the mids and highs.
Couple of questions -
- would a pair of good bookshelves and possibly a smaller sub be a better deal than these towers?
i need good soundstage and depth along with detail.

Secondly, i have the options of considering the following - B&W 6xx series (685 or 684); mordaunt short mezzo 2 or mezzo6; dali ikon 2 or ikon 6; or Quad 11L2 or 22L2.
Given the options for both 2.1 or pure tower setups.
What is a good ooption for me?
would really appreciate your inputs and views please.
best
-sirshendu
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Take a look at the Mordaunt Short, the Quad or if possible look
at Focal speakers. I prefer bookshelf speakers. Listen to towers
and bookshelves and then make a choice. If you keep looking for
perfection then get ready to spend.

Jim Z
Let the music begin!
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi,

I am seeking some advice from you in this forum on speakers. Have just got myself a NAD C355BEE (80W per channel) amp with NAD C515BEE CD player. Am running them on my old Mission M74i 2.5 way tower speakers.
The set up is giving me quite a bit of a loud bass - which at times can be a bit boomy, but i am missing out on the detailing in the mids and highs.
Couple of questions -
- would a pair of good bookshelves and possibly a smaller sub be a better deal than these towers?
i need good soundstage and depth along with detail.

Secondly, i have the options of considering the following - B&W 6xx series (685 or 684); mordaunt short mezzo 2 or mezzo6; dali ikon 2 or ikon 6; or Quad 11L2 or 22L2.
Given the options for both 2.1 or pure tower setups.
What is a good ooption for me?
would really appreciate your inputs and views please.
best
-sirshendu
I would experiment with speaker placement in the room before looking for new speakers. How close to the walls are they (back and side walls)? How far apart are they and how far are they from the listening position?
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
First, as 3db says, experiment with different placement of the speakers you have.

Bass can be increased by placing a speaker near a room boundary (i.e., a wall), so if they seem boomy, you might want them away from the side and back wall to see if that takes care of your problem. Of course, one should also check the obvious, and make sure one hasn't accidentally turned on a Loudness Compensation switch or turned up the Bass control, which can also make things sound boomy (though if I am not mistaken, your amplifier does not have a Loudness compensation switch). And while I am mentioning it, if you cannot correct the placement due to other issues (like if it would be in the way in the room in the acoustically ideal spot), you can turn down the Bass control to get rid of some boominess. Such controls are there for this sort of purpose (as well as adjusting things for personal taste).

Bass is also going to sound somewhat different in different places in the room, so the relative positioning of the speaker and your couch (or wherever you are when listening) matters.

I am not familiar with the particular Mission speakers you have, but the ones I have heard in the past I rather liked. So I would play with placement before deciding that I wanted something else.

If you do decide to try something else, keep in mind that if it is primarily a placement issue, you may have the same sort of problem with a different speaker, though going with a set of bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer or two might enable you to deal with less than ideal placement for the main speakers, as you will then not be placing the bookshelf speakers for the deep bass; only for the frequencies it does, and the subwoofer(s) would be placed to optimize its (their) performance.

So, if you do end up deciding to try a different speaker, I recommend buying locally from a place with a good return policy (if possible), so you can get your money back if you end up with the same (or a different) problem with the new speakers.

On the other hand, if I were looking for a set of speakers in the relevant price range, I would buy:

http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG

But I know what Magnepan speakers sound like generally, and also those in particular, as I persuaded my brother to try them. Whenever possible, one should listen to speakers before buying them.
 
S

Sirshendu M

Audiophyte
Hi,

Thanks to each of you for your suggestions.

Yes i have tried to move the speakers around the room. it does change the boominess. But i guess am looking for something 'more'... :) and yes you're right i should get ready to spend more also... :)

i had bought these mission towers about 6 years back when i actually had a denon AVR (5.1) and i was using these as the L/R fronts and predominantly into music. but, being more of a 'audioholic' :) i upgraded to a NAD 355BEE. Now i feel the soundstage is a compromise... especially when i auditioned the NADs with Dali and B&Ws, they sound far superior. so i was actually thinking of changing my towers. Considerations for my purchase are - soundstage, depth and detail. i know this is a long shot... but i would be willing to do my research and spend a bit to get this right. and yes i would not probably want to change this for a long time to come.

Thanks Pyrroh for your advice. i think this is fundamental to a good speaker search.

I have heard the following -
Dali
B&W 6XX series
Mordaunt short Mezzo
Quad L2 series

Love the bookshelves of these, but somewhere they lose the punch in the bass. so the 2.5 towers seem to be my prefered choice.

any insights from you guys on these would help. i like almost 'all' of them... yes i know life is tough...!!! but if i had to knock off a couple from this list... what would your experiences tell me???

cheers
 
S

Sirshendu M

Audiophyte
btw - i am based in delhi, India and the toughest thing here is that you dont get a dealer who sells multiple brands together. so i literally have to drive around half the city to audition different brands... :)

and hey Pyrroh... those Mags look awesome... but do they retail in india? and what is your experience with these 'mini-mags''?
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
btw - i am based in delhi, India and the toughest thing here is that you dont get a dealer who sells multiple brands together. so i literally have to drive around half the city to audition different brands... :)

and hey Pyrroh... those Mags look awesome... but do they retail in india? and what is your experience with these 'mini-mags''?
Oops! I believe that the Magnepan MMG is available only in the U.S. (They are sold factory direct, so it is a question of whether they will ship them to you, which I doubt, and if they would, I imagine the shipping fees would be extremely high.) For the upper models, you would have to find a dealer, and I don't see listings for dealers outside of Canada and the U.S., though I have been told there are dealers elsewhere. If you are interested in them, I recommend that you email Magnepan and ask them if there are any dealers near you.

Since you asked (not that it will do you much good), as for my experience with the MMG, it is very similar to the general reviews one finds of them online. They have a very clear and "natural" sound to them, being particularly good for reproducing acoustic music. The bass on the MMG is limited (the -3dB point is 50 Hz), though the bass that is there is very good, and reproduces sounds like an acoustic bass very realistically. Still, many users have said that they use a subwoofer with this speaker, and I can understand why. If one wants to hear bass heavy music, a subwoofer is a good idea with this speaker. The total output is also limited; though capable of being loud enough for sane levels in a normal room, they are absolutely unsuited for trying to reproduce the loudest Who concert at the actual concert level, or for filling a very large room with sound. They are more picky about room placement than most speakers, but they still sound good in less than ideal locations (just not as good as they can sound). Mostly, you may notice, I have mentioned their limitations and shortcomings. If I did not own Apogee Stage speakers (Apogee was purchased by another company and almost immediately afterwards was closed down in the late 1990's), which is a similar design to Magnepan, I would be wanting some Magnepan speakers, though I would prefer a higher model, because as one goes up to better models, the shortcomings become less and less, though the higher models are bigger and therefore require more space (and, of course, cost more and more as one goes up the line). Still, if I were looking for a new speaker at $600, and if my room and amplifier could deal with it, I would go with the MMG. Despite their obvious limitations, they have a very good sound, and reproduce voice and other acoustic sounds with a realism that seems almost magical.

Part of the "magic" of them is that they are dipole speakers (which means that they radiate sound from the front and back, out of phase), about which you can read a short article at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_speaker

And part of the "magic" of them is from being ribbon (or "quasi-ribbon") and planar speakers, which also have interesting characteristics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Ribbon_and_planar_magnetic_loudspeakers

Given your location, and guessing at what you might be able to get there, I would also look into Aurum Cantus speakers. They are well known for their ribbon tweeters, though I believe they also make some less expensive speakers with dome tweeters. I currently own some Aurum Cantus Leisure 2SE (original U.S. version) speakers (though I own a version that is exclusive to the U.S., I have owned an "international" version in the past which was good, though not as good), and use them in my surround system for all channels (except the subwoofer channel, of course!), and I never plan on upgrading them. They are great (though not as "magical" as my Apogee Stage speakers, except in the treble). I would imagine you can buy the international version on eBay, though I do not particularly recommend that you do that, as it is good to listen to speakers before you buy them; your taste in speakers may be different from mine. So if you can find a dealer, then I would recommend listening to some Aurum Cantus speakers with ribbon tweeters. Most of the reviews that one finds online about the Leisure 2SE is for the international version (all of them that are from reviewers outside the U.S. reviewing products for their own countries will not be the U.S. version, obviously), so you can read for yourself that they are highly regarded. For example:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0406/aurum_cantus_leisure_loudspeakers.htm

http://www.kellsieavdesign.com/Leisure2SE_Review.PDF


There are, as you can see if you visit the Aurum Cantus website, newer (and some less expensive) models that one might also consider, though I have no direct experience with them.


As you can probably tell, I am a big fan of ribbons. Not everyone is, but I am very far from being alone in my affection for them.


It is unfortunate that dealers in your area don't carry multiple brands of speakers, as it really is extremely helpful to listen to different models side by side. My advice is to take with you a CD (or your favorite source type) of each type of music that you listen to, and, perhaps, write down your impressions of each speaker for each CD track you play so that you will maybe better remember how they sound when trying to decide which model you like best. Of course, they are all going to be in different rooms, with different positioning, which is not going to make the comparisons perfectly fair even if you had a superhuman acoustic memory (which you don't, as you are human). I really do not envy you in that situation, but if you are patient and take your time, and do not rush into anything, that will likely aid you in your quest. You might also want to take your current speakers with you to compare them against other speakers, if that is possible. That way, you would have a kind of reference point in your comparisons with different speakers.

Obviously, it would be a bother to take your speakers with you, but I think it would be helpful. If you decide to do this, if you have the packing boxes for them, I recommend that you put them in their boxes every time you move them, so that they are not accidentally damaged taking them from store to store for your auditions.
 
S

Sirshendu M

Audiophyte
Hi Pyrroh, thanks so much for that detailed note on the mags and more about ribbon speakers. shows your passion for such technology and the sound.

And you are absolutely right about me needing to listen in on all options before finalising the piece. with that i am actually not left with too many choices in india... so i think i will zone in on the Quads. i quite like the balance and tonality of the Quads. also they are very transparent sounding.

thanks all the same and hope we connect again on this forum.
 

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