Help with Receiver or system upgrade

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
That's probably right. I figured certainly after 18 years it was necessary to upgrade. Seems like after all the research I may have saved myself some money (in the short term anyway) :)
The BB and similar stores reps have given you their opinions that are mostly subjective, and likely based on hearsay to some extent. I suppose you come here for more opinions, or technical information. Many of us have also gone through different upgrade paths and learnt that sound quality depends mostly on:

1) Quality of the source media (recording, mixing, formats such as MP3, CD, Flac, Wave, WMA, AAC, ALAC, DSD, MQA streaming etc etc etc..), garbage in garbage out right?
2) Media players, i.e. Turntables, CD/DVD/BR/Univeral disc players, Digital file audio players (DAP/DACs), network streamers/players.
3) Speakers, ultimately they are the ones that have to produce the sound.
4) Room acoustic characteristics.
5) Amplifiers, in this case, AVRs.

All of the above are important factors but I put them this particular order/priority based on my perception of the point of diminishing return for each, in terms of $, and audibility of the theoretical and measurable differences. So that means ymmv...

Relatively speaking, it is easier to say with confidence that all else being equal, CD, 24bit/96kHz flac and other high resolution digital formats such as wave and DSD music files could sound different (usually better) than MP3 64 and 128 kbps, but it gets trickier with MP3 320 kbps that could sound the same to many people, depending on the music contents. It is much difficult to tell the difference between DACs, CD players, and amplifiers that are used well within their specified limits. My comments are based on hardware that are on the right side of the point of diminishing return, obvious examples are the comparisons between the MRX, AVR, and SR products you mentioned. I am quite certain that those units will sound the same in a controlled blind test, even just a single blind tests if no sound processing is used.

*Full disclosure:), I do own and have used several Denon AVRs, two Marantz AVPs, one Marantz preamp and two Marantz power amps, as well as one Anthem power amp.

With sound processing, all bets are off, they will sound different, but different people will have different preference so it is still not possible to know which one you would prefer.

Regarding the Marantz "warm" thing, does that mean Denon and Anthem would sound "cool"? If not, then logically speaking, you should avoid Marantz because that would imply processing, and/or tone control, or distortions may still be in effect even when put in pure direct mode!! It is better to get an amp that simply amplify the signal, so that you can make your own adjustments to suit your taste. Based on specs and numerous lab measurements available online, I have seen nothing that would indicate Marantz has built in such hidden sound processing and/or distortions in order to have it's own sound signature.

You have now been told by BB/AV that basically, each of those brands are designed/built to have their own sound. Some of us believe Denon, Marants, and Anthem's design goal should be accuracy, transparency, It is up to you to choose what to believe, and whether you want to take the chance that you will like one brand's sound better than the others. The BB/AV reps are right about one thing, you can't really tell which "sound" you like best, unless you try all of them in your own home and set each up in exactly the same. Even then, it may be hard to tell without an extended session of ABC comparisons. Everything else aside, that's the main reason why I prefer to go by specs and measurements more than user feedback or forum hearsay, except for the objective views on things like heat issues, noises, reliability and features related matters.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I checked out a few receivers at Best Buy and then at a couple of local AV shops. Salespeople were all very helpful, but I'm not sure how knowledgable (especially at BB) and all have different opinions. These are the general opinions I received (would love to hear thoughts).

(1) AV salesperson 1: Strongly recommended going for Anthem Receiver over Marantz or Denon coming from a Rotel. Felt Marantz is somewhat better than Denon, but that build and sound quality is not comparable to an Anthem and that Anthem room correction is better. Said Anthem would last longer and sound better and felt I would be disappointed if moving from an old Rotel to a more "mainstream" AVR like Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, etc. Did not have an Anthem on floor (or a Marantz or Denon) to compare.

(2) BB salesperson gave party line that Marantz is more for music and generally better/warmer sounding than Denon at similar level, but that both were good. Felt no benefit in sound to go from X34000H to X4400H or SR5012 (or 13) to SR 6012 (or 13). I couldn't hear any difference in the store, but the salesperson said none of the receivers would sound like they would sound in my home and that it was very difficult to compare in the store as they were going through all kinds of splitters, etc.

(3) AV salesperson 2 liked Marantz more than Denon and Anthem better than both (particularly due to room correction and possible benefit given my room),but said he wasn't really even sure that I would notice much of a sound difference between receivers, including my current Rotel. He said he would love to sell me a receiver, but wasn't sure it would be worth it if I wasn't going to a 4K television yet. He thought that the upgrade to Lossless Dolby TrueHD sound (or DTS Master Audio) didn't always make much difference and was a bit overemphasized by some. The biggest benefit he believed might be the move to something that has decent room correction. I listened to the Anthem and it sounded great in their controlled environment with different speakers than mine, but they did not have Marantz or Denon to compare it to.

Now I'm even more confused. My Rotel still sounds good to me and if the only real benefit I am going to get at the moment from an upgrade is HDMI switching (which is really just a convenience) ,I might as well save the $$ and wait until the current receiver stops working as new things will always be coming out.

Any thoughts about the info/opinions I received?

Edited for typos.
Don't forget who gave you those recommendations. They all have biases, self motivated sales people. Their livelihood.

As to one component good for music while another for something else is laughable. If you want to interrogate them, ask for evidence, solid evidence, not opinions of dubious quality. ;) Specs would certainly show that one is warmer, favoring a certain frequency bad or another quality. Hogwash. Why would a company do that to limit their customer base? After all, most who buy are not golden ear audiophiles.

Buy amp/avr to drive the speaker load and features you really need for the foreseeable future. Mind control is way off into the future. :D
 
S

Sax-Fan

Junior Audioholic
It has been ages since I last shopped for home theater equipment and my receiver in particular is very long in the tooth (but still sounds great).

I have a 5.1 system that I purchased going on (gulp!) 18 years ago comprised of: (1) a pair of B&W CDM 1NT bookshelf speakers being used as front channels, (2) a B&W CC6 S2 center channel, (3) two B&W LS1s (small satellite type speakers) mounted on the rear side walls for surrounds and (4) a Rel Strata III subwoofer. My receiver is a Rotel RSX-965.

The system is in a small Den probably about 10' x 11' but there is a hall about 3-4 feet wide leading into it and that side of the room is almost completely open going into the living room. Front speakers are, by necessity on a wall that is about 7' long, so separation is not great. I have a Samsung plasma TV that I may upgrade to 4K at some point, but no plans to do so immediately. Anyway, I just give you all this info as general background.

My biggest issue is that due to its age, the receiver has no HDMI inputs or switching. Additionally, I have some problems getting clear dialogue at times (not sure if it is the speaker, receiver or the mixes) and the subwoofer is probably overkill size-wise for the room, although it is tucked away in the corner, so not really a problem. Honestly, everything still functions well, so despite the age and inconveniences, I could probably continue to use everything.

That said, I am thinking it is probably long overdue to replace the receiver at a minimum. I was wondering if you have suggestions for what will go well with the rest of the system and/or if you think it might make sense to upgrade anything else (I could, for example, repurpose the front speakers in another room and use it for stereo only) and buy a new speaker system.

The receivers I have been looking at, or which have been suggested to me are the Marantz Sr 6012 (which I can get at a very good price-- about the same as the new 5013 - because it is being replaced - but it seems really intended for a much larger system), the Anthem MRX 520 (downside is a lack of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X ability, should I ever decide to go that route), Cambridge Audio CXR 120 and the NAD T 758 V3. The Anthem at about $1400 is really at the top of the range price wise and I wonder whether I have to spend anywhere close to that to get a good receiver. On the other hand, I don't want to have to take a step backwards from the Rotel in sound quality.

Any thoughts, suggestions or other input on the above, and particularly with respect to receiver possibilities (including those I mentioned above) would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.
Hi everyone -- we are now 2 years on from my original post. I decided at the time that, aside from convenience, there wouldn't be any real benefit to upgrading despite the age of my system, so I kept my wallet in my pocket.

Since that time I have noticed humming coming from my speakers at different volumes and sporadically. I'm no expert, but I did some troubleshooting and as best I can tell, it seems like it is receiver related rather than a ground hum. Sometimes simply turning the receiver off and on again greatly diminishes the hum.

Anyway, I'm now shopping again. I saw the Marantz SR7013 is currently on sale for $1599 (a $600 discount), but that doesn't seem like a great deal to me for a receiver that is now 2 years old and I imagine I would probably be better off with a lower tier model that is newer given my modest setup.

Any suggestions for best deals currently? Perhaps we will know more shortly when the 2020 models become more readily available?
 
S

Sax-Fan

Junior Audioholic
Thanks. What are the main benefits of the step up from the 3600h or SR6014 to the 4500h and sr7013?

Is it worth paying up for the 2020 models for HDMI 2.1. As you can see from my original post, I tend to keep things for quite some time, but I'm not a gamer and 8K isn't of interest -- I'm not even on 4K - I'm still using an HD Plasma TV.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Thanks. What are the main benefits of the step up from the 3600h or SR6014 to the 4500h and sr7013?

Is it worth paying up for the 2020 models for HDMI 2.1.
20 watts and $300 bucks

And I can't answer your question on 2020 models w/ HDMI 2.1 as I too am on older technology. I guess it all depends if you're going to upgrade in the very near future
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If you're not even 4k, let alone 8k, or have some need for lossless audio via ARC.....what's to gain from HDMI 2.1 is beyond me.
 
S

Sax-Fan

Junior Audioholic
If you're not even 4k, let alone 8k, or have some need for lossless audio via ARC.....what's to gain from HDMI 2.1 is beyond me.
I honestly don't know if I might benefit from lossless audio via ARC at some point. I assume during the life of whatever receiver I buy I will probably also wind up replacing my TV if that matters.
 
S

Sax-Fan

Junior Audioholic
20 watts and $300 bucks
Doesn't sound like a particularly cost effective trade off. Would that increase in power even be noticeable (particularly listening/watching at somewhat lower volumes -- certainly not reference)?
 
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