Help with power hookup!

[Midcow2]

Agree with TLS get a professional

That is bad, your panel needs checking out by a professional.

I agree! Above all the laws of physics and energy, the electrical god is the highest. TLS is aboslutely correct a qualified professional electrician should look at it! ( Hopefully, not like the one who fixed the miswiring in my first house. He fixed everything all right and was alive when he left my house. After he moved hot bare wires; no don't need to shut off circuit breakers...).

In your case report it to you apartment managment. And when you tell then don't forget to mention that "ozone smell" and the burned "isulator smell" that ocurs when it happens. And if they ask anything else, say "what about the occasional arcing and flashing" when I turn on the light switches, 'is that normal ?'.

 

[Alex2507]

the building management is not on good terms with me, so I don't want to compound the issue by brining in a firemarshall

To them saving a buck is more important than you possibly burning to death in their electrical fire and you're worried about them not liking you? If it was me the person making that decision would have to worry about their head going up in flames. I've got my cranky pants on today.

[/QUOTE]the APC H10 seems to be getting a rave review from Tom Andry...(although the subwoofer comment left me a bit nervous because I think my sub has an integrated fuse [/QUOTE]

Well do share. Hook us up with a link. I just had my sister get one here:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4197031&sku=A75-2071&SRCCODE=LINKSHARE&cm_mmc_o=-ddCjC1bELltzywCjC-d2CjCdwwp&AffiliateID=NKa3hZyYoHA-7Haw2Hj9YQhWIEuFt8niEQ

I've got her subs plugged into the switched outlets. I just remembered: Pro Reviews on the main page. I'll give that a shot.

Edit: It's here:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/power-conditioners/apc-h15

My sister hasn't encountered any problems in the two weeks she has been using her H10
but she's no Tom Andry.

 

[audio ninja]

So I looked at the APC H10/15 and they appear to be power conditioners, not a UPS. Which one should I be looking at? A UPS seems to cost less, and sustain the system if the power goes out completely....but the APC H10 seems to be getting a rave review from Tom Andry...(although the subwoofer comment left me a bit nervous because I think my sub has an integrated fuse )

This tripplite UPS can be had for about $120 (http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SMART1000LCD-Digital-Line-Interactive/dp/B000B651DO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1231274674&sr=1-1) from Amazon, as against the $150 for the silver APC power conditioner.

Thoughts?

The APC and Tripplite units both offer AVR (Auto Voltage Regulation), that's why I pointed out these products. From here, it's your choice to decide on which of the other features the products offer are more valuable to you.

The APC H10/H15 is designed to clean the power by reducing the EFI, RFI, adjusting the voltage,and protecting from surges. The Tripplite's main function is to provide a continuous flow power when power is out so you can safely shut down your equipment (don't count on this to power your way through movies during storms!) . Also, it adjusts the voltage (AVR) and provides a small degree of surge suppression, and EMI & RFI filtering. Here's Tripplite link: http://www.tripplite.com/EN/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=643&EID=14321&txtModelID=3071

I read Tom Andry's review too and want to point out APC's note and Tom's mentioning of how it may be isolated to that particular subwoofer. You can try and plug your sub into it's own receptacle instead. The receiver is mainly what I am concerned with since that is what is delivering the audio signal to your speakers.

 

[TLS Guy]

The APC and Tripplite units both offer AVR (Auto Voltage Regulation), that's why I pointed out these products. From here, it's your choice to decide on which of the other features the products offer are more valuable to you.

The APC H10/H15 is designed to clean the power by reducing the EFI, RFI, adjusting the voltage,and protecting from surges. The Tripplite's main function is to provide a continuous flow power when power is out so you can safely shut down your equipment (don't count on this to power your way through movies during storms!) . Also, it adjusts the voltage (AVR) and provides a small degree of surge suppression, and EMI & RFI filtering. Here's Tripplite link: http://www.tripplite.com/EN/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=643&EID=14321&txtModelID=3071

I read Tom Andry's review too and want to point out APC's note and Tom's mentioning of how it may be isolated to that particular subwoofer. You can try and plug your sub into it's own receptacle instead. The receiver is mainly what I am concerned with since that is what is delivering the audio signal to your speakers.

For your problem you need a smart UPS with a rapid response time.

 

[evilkat]

Okay this story keeps getting more bizzare. I ordered an APC H15 power conditioner from the audioholics store since that seemed to be such a schweet deal at the time. However this has not fixed my issue. Here are the readings/settings on the conditioner:

I have the set the AVR range to Narrow.
The Line OK and the Wiring OK lights are on.
The line boost light remains off no matter what I do with the lights.
The Overloaded light is OFF.

So the conditioner things everything is normal, but whenever i switch off the lights the music playing on my receiver cuts out briefly and comes back on.

I just wrote toe the APC tech support guys and here's what they had to say:

Thank you for updating your incident. The H15 is designed to filter the power to the devices, but it cannot filter any RFI or EMI interference that may come through the air. The only thing I can think of that may be causing this is EMI interference in the air rather than the power lines. The H15 is going to provide the highest level of filtering available, so there really would not be a product I would recommend over this one for an AV application.

This answer does not make sense to me. If it were RFI/EMI over the air then switching the lights on and then OFF would have no possible effect on the equipment. Are they suggesting that a fluorescent light is emitting RFI/EMI that can cause the sound signal from my receiver to completely cut out and come back?????

TLS, u mentioned a Smart UPS with a quick response time. Any recommendations? Would a UPS work where this has failed?

SHould I be returning this conditioner back to the Audioholics store? Is there something I've overlooked??

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay this story keeps getting more bizzare. I ordered an APC H15 power conditioner from the audioholics store since that seemed to be such a schweet deal at the time. However this has not fixed my issue. Here are the readings/settings on the conditioner:

I have the set the AVR range to Narrow.
The Line OK and the Wiring OK lights are on.
The line boost light remains off no matter what I do with the lights.
The Overloaded light is OFF.

So the conditioner things everything is normal, but whenever i switch off the lights the music playing on my receiver cuts out briefly and comes back on.

I just wrote toe the APC tech support guys and here's what they had to say:



This answer does not make sense to me. If it were RFI/EMI over the air then switching the lights on and then OFF would have no possible effect on the equipment. Are they suggesting that a fluorescent light is emitting RFI/EMI that can cause the sound signal from my receiver to completely cut out and come back?????

TLS, u mentioned a Smart UPS with a quick response time. Any recommendations? Would a UPS work where this has failed?

SHould I be returning this conditioner back to the Audioholics store? Is there something I've overlooked??

That reply from APC is BS. However a line conditioner can not fix a line voltage drop out, that takes a UPS like I told you. So return the power conditioner.

However your voltage should not be dropping out every time you turn on a kitchen light. Something is seriously wrong, and it should be fixed. There is no trivial or innocent explanation for what you are observing.

A smart UPS with a very fast response time will likely protect your equipment and stop your receiver cutting out. However it sounds as if the UPS will be switching to inverter very frequently and cause short battery life.

As I have said before, there is a diagnosis to be made in your apartment wiring. I can honestly tell you I would not be living in an apartment with that going on. I would be out of there, if they did not fix it.

 

[evilkat]

A smart UPS with a very fast response time will likely protect your equipment and stop your receiver cutting out. However it sounds as if the UPS will be switching to inverter very frequently and cause short battery life.

Any particular models you can recommend?

I will see if i can't find some sort of city inspector to talk to...

 

[TLS Guy]

Any particular models you can recommend?

I will see if i can't find some sort of city inspector to talk to...

You need one big enough to meet your power requirements. You must have sufficient VA and continuous watts.

I have dealt with UPS for less previously with good results. Choose one big enough for your requirements from this list.

I have also dealt with Refurb UPS with good results. You could choose one from this list.

I agree with taking your power problems further.

 

[MatthewB.]

You have to remember that apartment buildings are built by the lowest bidder on a project. The builders it seems to me where using shortcuts and wired the bathroom breaker to the electrical outlet that your HT is on. I would hate to see what would happen should your women use her hair dryer while you watched a movie. It appears to me that you need another 15 amp circuit hooked up for the bathroom alone and one for the living room. Something isnt right. Another solution is that the light switch in the bathroom is becoming faulty and shorting out when you are using the Ht system. I had this happen in my kitchen recently and replacing the light switch fixed my issue. The connection wires to the light switch corrode over time (especially in a bathroom with the humidity) and may just need to be replaced. It's a simple 2.00 fix and you have to shut off the electricity and make sure you connect the wires as the same as you disconnected them (including the ground) in fact your apartment service guy should be able to do it in five minutes. This may be all that it is.

 

[evilkat]

Thanks for the advice guys. I just got a reply back from the folks @ APC:

Thank you for updating your incident. I spoke with a senior member of our technical support team and they agreed that a UPS is not going to provide you with better filtering. If the H15 were going into boost or trim, a UPS might be a plausible solution, but it is not in this case. If the problem existed before you bought the H15 and remained after you plugged the devices into the H15, purchasing another UPS or line filter would not help. It is very strange that this seems to occur mainly when you turn off the lights though. The only suggestions we to have you try other outlets and potentially have the wiring checked out by an electrician. Have you tried plugging the receiver into any other outlets in the apartment? If you would please try plugging the H15 and the receiver into an outlet
as far from the fluorescent lighting as possible, I would appreciate it. You may want to try every outlet in the apartment. If you do not have better results with different outlets, you may wish to see if your apartment building can have an electrician check out the wiring as this may be some kind of issue with the neutral wire, which our devices cannot correct.

Even APC isn't convinced that a UPS would resolve this issue. Alright, the only other thing I can do, based on your suggestions is to try and isolate the cct that my Kitchen light and bathroom light are on (and I seem to remember EVERYTHING was connected to that cct!) and plug receiver into a diff cct and see if that works.

I don't think I even have extension chords that long. Sigh.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the advice guys. I just got a reply back from the folks @ APC:



Even APC isn't convinced that a UPS would resolve this issue. Alright, the only other thing I can do, based on your suggestions is to try and isolate the cct that my Kitchen light and bathroom light are on (and I seem to remember EVERYTHING was connected to that cct!) and plug receiver into a diff cct and see if that works.

I don't think I even have extension chords that long. Sigh.

APC are selling themselves short. I have three APC UPS units in my system. It keeps everything going nicely. through glitches in ice storms and thunderstorms, and also keeps going in a power cut until my generator starts.

They are fast enough to keep every thing running without a glitch in every conceivable type of power interruption.

However you still need to insist power does not drop to zero switching on lights.

 

[Rickster71]

Thanks for the advice guys. I just got a reply back from the folks @ APC:



Even APC isn't convinced that a UPS would resolve this issue. Alright, the only other thing I can do, based on your suggestions is to try and isolate the cct that my Kitchen light and bathroom light are on (and I seem to remember EVERYTHING was connected to that cct!) and plug receiver into a diff cct and see if that works.

I don't think I even have extension chords that long. Sigh.

Absolutely,
my advice from post #18 is a start to systematically tracking this problem down.

(Unfortunately, anything is possible, when trying to diagnose problem long distance.

You'll have to run a cord to another room and shut off a few breakers to determine that it's on a different circuit.
Then experiment to see if the problem goes away.)

 

[evilkat]

Well, after hours of hunting around and plugging and unplugging stuff from nearly every conceivable plug-point at home, I finally found a circuit that gave me clean power, no matter what I did with the lights! Man, the ccts are arranged so weirdly at my place! Since the line boost never kicked in on the power conditioner, I think I will return it as I am not sure what good that will do for my system. I already have a fuse on the triplite extension cord to protect my gear.

Anyway, I think everything is fine now, and I want to thank all of you guys for all the help you've given me in tracking down this troublesome issue!

 

[PSWii60]

If the lights are fluorescent that's your problem and the only way to fix it is to swap them with incandescents. My AV closet had a fluorescent in it and it would pop only when turning the light off, not on. I tried different conditioners and iso transformers. Nothing worked until I switched it with an incandescent. No more problems.