Help with power hookup!

[evilkat]

Hi guys,

I've noticed lately, that whenever I switch on/off the lights in the kitchen or bathroom or if the HVAC kicks in, and my audio system is playing something, the sound flickers off and then on again.

I can't imagine that this is good for the system...but I am not sure how exactly I should remedy this? Can someone advise me on this?

Also the way everything is hooked up is as follows:

I have a pair of wall sockets (one below the other) that I use to hook everything together. One goes into a Tripplite extension cord, and this has the TV, PS3 and Receiver plugged into it. The Subwoofer is hooked into the other plug-point.

Not sure if that's too much draw from those two power outlets. Would appreciate any advice!

 

[Alex2507]

Due to some odd light flickering issues I just had and things I have seen in the past I'll say that going into your electrical panel is in order. First of all turn those breakers off and on a couple of times. That might take care of it.

I'm not sure why but on a few occasions I have seen the neutrals get loose. Make sure everything in there is reasonably tight. Don't do this while standing in a bucket of water.

The last time I did that I wrapped the shaft of the screw driver with electrical tape but HD sells those fancy screw drivers with an insulated shaft. I always try to get right with God before doing anything like that. Just in case.

If you really are an evilkat, you may not wanna run the risk
so getting an electrician might be the way to go.

 

[evilkat]

Unfortunately, due to my evilness I've been confined to an apartment, and I am not sure if they'd want me screwing around with the breaker box >=) On the other hand, I can't quite see the maintenance people coming over to 'fix' any problems just because my sound is flickering whenever a light switch is thrown

*sigh*

 

[Alex2507]

The breaker box is in your apartment right? We won't tell. To begin with you're just gonna flip a couple of breakers. I probably shouldn't encourage you but just in case you decide to give it a go some gloves and safety glasses would be good. Just in case you touch the wrong thing and the sparks start to fly ...

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi guys,

I've noticed lately, that whenever I switch on/off the lights in the kitchen or bathroom or if the HVAC kicks in, and my audio system is playing something, the sound flickers off and then on again.

I can't imagine that this is good for the system...but I am not sure how exactly I should remedy this? Can someone advise me on this?

Also the way everything is hooked up is as follows:

I have a pair of wall sockets (one below the other) that I use to hook everything together. One goes into a Tripplite extension cord, and this has the TV, PS3 and Receiver plugged into it. The Subwoofer is hooked into the other plug-point.

Not sure if that's too much draw from those two power outlets. Would appreciate any advice!

That is bad, your panel needs checking out by a professional.

 

[Lightning Steve]

I'm no electrical expert, I get my younger brother to do that stuff, but you need to have your TV/audio stuff on a different circuit. What you could try is to plug your extension cord/power bar into a different outlet (in a different room, you may even have to try several, older houses are bad for this) to see if this eliminates the problem. If it does correct the problem you can switch the outlet (in your TV room) on to a different circuit in your breaker box, preferably it's own with nothing else running on it. It's easy and cheap to do but if your unfamiliar with electrical work get someone who is or an electrician.
It also wouldn't hurt to have an electrician look at things just to make sure all is well.

Oops, just noticed your in a apartment, if this is something new I would report it and have it looked at.

 

[evilkat]

Thanks for the input guys.

Alex: I see two banks of breakers with the top one saying ON and the bottom row saying NO (bottom row installed backwards???). After heavy insulation, u just want me to switch all of em one way and then the other right? Okay I'll give that a shot.

TLSguy: Is my situation something a powerconditioner can correct? I just have almost zero confidence that the apartment maintenance people can actually do something about this without mucking up my own equipment. You still think I should ask them?


Steve: I suppose I can give it a shot and see if another outlet on a hopefully different cct will fix this issue. I'll prolly have to chain a couple of ext cords to get my stuff to reach there though!!! Is that a bad thing?

 

[Alex2507]

Alex: I see two banks of breakers with the top one saying ON and the bottom row saying NO (bottom row installed backwards???). After heavy insulation, u just want me to switch all of em one way and then the other right? Okay I'll give that a shot.

You don't need any insulation for that. Those are just like big light switches. Right now they are probably all "ON". I doubt anything is backwards but you will flip them to "OFF" or "NO?" in your case. You can figure out which breaker controls what and write it down on a post it note on the inside of the door. When you identify the one that is problematic slam that thing around like it was a red headed step child. That may straighten it out.

Judging by your question I'm going to retract my suggestion of removing the panel cover and messing with the wires in there. I'm gonna side with TLS on this. The maintenance people will be familiar with the panel innards. At least you won't need TLS for medical advice. I don't think a power filter will help you. As far as I'm concerned TLS is a rocket scientist for this stuff.

I hope the easy fix works. It just did for me less than a week ago.

Good luck,
-Alex

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the input guys.

Alex: I see two banks of breakers with the top one saying ON and the bottom row saying NO (bottom row installed backwards???). After heavy insulation, u just want me to switch all of em one way and then the other right? Okay I'll give that a shot.

TLSguy: Is my situation something a powerconditioner can correct? I just have almost zero confidence that the apartment maintenance people can actually do something about this without mucking up my own equipment. You still think I should ask them?


Steve: I suppose I can give it a shot and see if another outlet on a hopefully different cct will fix this issue. I'll prolly have to chain a couple of ext cords to get my stuff to reach there though!!! Is that a bad thing?

I don't think the problem is due to the circuit your gear is connected to. When you switch on distant circuits, and they take down other circuits, it means there is a high resistance state back at the panel. This will be live or neutral. The problem is that resistance equals heat which leads to fire.

No, this is not something that would be corrected with a lower conditioner, it would take a full blown UPS. However, what you have described is something that should always be professionally looked into for reasons of safety.

 

[evilkat]

Alex, you're absolutely right...I'm no electrical guy (give me a computer and I'm fine...but I'm too new to the HT world)!! I'll try slapping around the breaker switch once I've ID the sucker.

Okay TLS, that sounds like a good plan. I will let them know if Alex's remedy doesn't do it.

 

[evilkat]

Okay I tried resetting the breakers, but nothing changed. I did notice however, that the problem comes when I switch OFF the lights in the bathroom/Kitchen, not when I switch them ON. Will as the maintenance people to look at it.

 

[Rickster71]

Your apartment's management Co. will have an electrician that they use; have them call him.
You can't legally do electrical work in a multi unit dwelling or apartment. It's just not worth the liability.

 

[evilkat]

So this is interesting. I got the apt people to get someone to look at it. The first guy they sent up claimed that something was wrong with my system and that their electrical wiring is flawless. I couldn't even get the guy to pop open the panel. But after bikering with him, the guy decides he'll call his super.

So the super comes up and hears the tale. Again he blames it on the system, even though i show him that its switching OFF the lights that do it. The guy pokes around a bit more and then claims that the signals emanating from my Wireless router is screwing up the ccts. That's what's doing this.

Right then and there, I decide the guy is a complete moron, and if even if he COULD pop open the electrical panel, I am not sure I'd want him to. Soooo, now I am not sure what to do.

Can one of you experts tell me how bad this situation is for my system (sans snake oil!)? Should be looking at a battery back up? I really don't want to spend the money on it unless I really have to...but on the other hand I don't want to spoil a system I've worked so hard to get! Would appreciate any advice you can offer...

 

[TLS Guy]

So this is interesting. I got the apt people to get someone to look at it. The first guy they sent up claimed that something was wrong with my system and that their electrical wiring is flawless. I couldn't even get the guy to pop open the panel. But after bikering with him, the guy decides he'll call his super.

So the super comes up and hears the tale. Again he blames it on the system, even though i show him that its switching OFF the lights that do it. The guy pokes around a bit more and then claims that the signals emanating from my Wireless router is screwing up the ccts. That's what's doing this.

Right then and there, I decide the guy is a complete moron, and if even if he COULD pop open the electrical panel, I am not sure I'd want him to. Soooo, now I am not sure what to do.

Can one of you experts tell me how bad this situation is for my system (sans snake oil!)? Should be looking at a battery back up? I really don't want to spend the money on it unless I really have to...but on the other hand I don't want to spoil a system I've worked so hard to get! Would appreciate any advice you can offer...

I'd give a call to the local city electrical inspector or fire chief. That was ridiculous and a sham. That sort of problem in a multiple dwelling can have very tragic consequences.

 

[Alex2507]

You have done the right thing so far. TLS's advice sounds reasonable to me as these people obviously are more concerned about saving a buck than they are about human life. You have afforded them the opportunity to do the right thing and they failed badly.

Good luck with this and if you don't post back,
I will have to assume you died in an electrical fire.

 

[audio ninja]

Sounds like voltage swells/spikes to me

Based on your supplied info, I believe your system is suffering from voltage drops and spikes. Switching your plug to a different circuit or flipping your breakers on and off isn't the fix as that correlates to amperage only. If you were using too much amperage, your circuit breaker in the panel would be tripping. When HVAC kicks on, especially when it's an inefficient model in an apartment (I've lived in several apts.) or other power hungry devices, they draw a large amount of current and the voltage can temporarily sag low enough to affect your equipment since it is sensitive electronic equipment. As far as your issue when turning lights off, are the lights fluorescent lights? These use a ballast that put out a lot of electronic interference. Overall, you need something with automatic voltage regulation. Most UPS's offer voltage regulation (or correction) that will provide the 120 volts needed or an equipped power conditioner. Audioholics store has the silver-colored APC # H10 for $130 or the # H15 for $150 (smoking prices for these). At my local Costco, they have a Tripplite UPS (#: SMART1000LCD) for $100.

 

[evilkat]

Before I start harassing the firemarshall over this, are you guys sure that I don't have too much stuff plugged into one outlet? I'm tempted to try splitting up the load and seeing if that makes a difference...ofcourse if all the outlets are wired in series, I suppose that shouldn't make a diff

 

[Rickster71]

Before I start harassing the firemarshall over this, are you guys sure that I don't have too much stuff plugged into one outlet? I'm tempted to try splitting up the load and seeing if that makes a difference...ofcourse if all the outlets are wired in series, I suppose that shouldn't make a diff

Unfortunately, anything is possible, when trying to diagnose problem long distance.

You'll have to run a cord to another room and shut off a few breakers to determine that it's on a different circuit.
Then experiment to see if the problem goes away.

 

[audio ninja]

Before I start harassing the firemarshall over this, are you guys sure that I don't have too much stuff plugged into one outlet? I'm tempted to try splitting up the load and seeing if that makes a difference...ofcourse if all the outlets are wired in series, I suppose that shouldn't make a diff

You're right, it won't make a difference. No need to call the firemarshall. More often than not in an apt., the circuit you're using is being fed power from a 15 amp circuit breaker. The receptacles you're using in that apt. and their wiring is rated to handle up to 15 amps. It doesn't matter whether you have 1o things plugged into 1 receptacle or 10 things plugged into multiple receptacles in the same circuit, you still have the same amount of power available from the breaker. If you were using too much power, your breaker would be tripping and you would have to reset the circuit breaker and disconnect some items to prevent it from happening again. Since your breaker isn't tripping, you have enough power (amperage) available. Voltage is still my suspected cause of the issue and still recommend my previous solutions. Voltage can even be affected by things on another circuit.

 

[evilkat]

I think TLS's suggestion was more to do with the safety aspect (a resistance behind the panel leading to a fire) than solving the problem itself. Either way, the building management is not on good terms with me, so I don't want to compound the issue by brining in a firemarshall, if it turns out that there was nothing going on.

So I looked at the APC H10/15 and they appear to be power conditioners, not a UPS. Which one should I be looking at? A UPS seems to cost less, and sustain the system if the power goes out completely....but the APC H10 seems to be getting a rave review from Tom Andry...(although the subwoofer comment left me a bit nervous because I think my sub has an integrated fuse )

This tripplite UPS can be had for about $120 (http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SMART1000LCD-Digital-Line-Interactive/dp/B000B651DO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1231274674&sr=1-1) from Amazon, as against the $150 for the silver APC power conditioner.


Thoughts?