Help with placement and height ? What is best wire to use?

[John Clement]

Hello to all,
Beginner setting up Klipsch Reference Premier.
Ok the Delima is size on 450c
If I put at top of cabinet and angle down vs going to smaller 440 and set below tv will that work ?
Running 28fa towers front 450 or 440 center 250 or 240 rears and a svs sb2000 with as of right now onkyo thx-n777.
Room size is 19x21 with 11’ceiling.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Sitting roughly 13’ from 4K Samsung . Loading pics

 

[John Clement]

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[John Clement]

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I really want to use the 450 but not if sitting up high angled down is not going to work as well as 440 at tv level ?


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[TLS Guy]

I really want to use the 450 but not if sitting up high angled down is not going to work as well as 440 at tv level ?


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Putting it high up is not going to work. Due to ceiling reflections clarity will be poor. Also the voices will not integrate with the screen. So you need the 440 below the screen. Both these speakers are rear ported which will be an issue putting them in that cabinet. You might have to plug the port but that will limit bass output.

Sometimes in these difficult less than ideal situations no center is the best option. A poorly performing center is always worse than no center.

 

[John Clement]

Putting it high up is not going to work. Due to ceiling reflections clarity will be poor. Also the voices will not integrate with the screen. So you need the 440 below the screen. Both these speakers are rear ported which will be an issue putting them in that cabinet. You might have to plug the port but that will limit bass output.

Sometimes in these difficult less than ideal situations no center is the best option. A poorly performing center is always worse than no center.

Thank you!!
and that’s what I was thinking ..
the 440 will work great when I add a tv bracket to hold tv vs the stand..


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[John Clement]

Thank you!!
and that’s what I was thinking ..
the 440 will work great when I add a tv bracket to hold tv vs the stand..


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What options would I have without a center channel isn’t that the most important?



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[TLS Guy]

What options would I have without a center channel isn’t that the most important?



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Well that depends. My downstairs system has no center channel and speech clarity is excellent and imaging is good. I think it all depends on how good the left and right speakers are. I do know there are an awful lot of bad centers around, by far the majority. I wonder so often when I hear other systems if they would be better off without the center.

Unfortunately the physics of the horizontal center is all wrong. Really a center needs to be vertical, or use a single full range or coaxial driver. Centers certainly have the propensity to be the weak link.

Having said that, a really good center is a great asset. I do know that designing and building a good center speaker is an enormous technical challenge and a hard speaker to design.

The BBC are starting to experiment with multichannel. At present they are of the view that a center is a detriment and their experimental broadcasts have been 4.1 or 4.0. BBC engineering is top notch and highly respected. I suspect they are coming from the view that there are very few good center speakers and in very many cases are a detriment.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Well that depends. My downstairs system has no center channel and speech clarity is excellent and imaging is good. I think it all depends on how good the left and right speakers are. I do know there are an awful lot of bad centers around, by far the majority. I wonder so often when I hear other systems if they would be better off without the center.

I agree. We have a 70" display with two floor standing speakers, 16" off to each side of the display, with no center speaker, and even when sitting much closer to one speaker than the other we've never noticed issues with voice localization, lack of centering, or speech clarity. Perhaps with a 120" screen a center would be useful, but not with a display as small as in the photo.

 

[lovinthehd]

Read up on speaker wire here, and use the handy wire table for length/gauge needed http://roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I'm a fan of using a center, have used just L/R a few times and prefer having a center for dialog, YMMV. I think below would be better than above in your case, tho. Your bigger issue is lack of good placement options with that entertainment center.

 

[John Clement]

Thanks for info .
The 440 will fit dead center and 28 AF’s on each side of cabinet angled towards center of room will definitely sound better than the bose .


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[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks for info .
The 440 will fit dead center and 28 AF’s on each side of cabinet angled towards center of room will definitely sound better than the bose .


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Most definitely will be better. I agree that the 440 will be a better choice.
Also, the sb2k will be horribly outmatched by the room. It’s just too small. If it’s new, email ed Mullen and ask about exchanging it and possibly a better recommendation.

 

[lovinthehd]

Along those lines, an article on sub/room size https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/subwoofer-room-size

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for info .
The 440 will fit dead center and 28 AF’s on each side of cabinet angled towards center of room will definitely sound better than the bose .


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Hard to know from the pic...but keep that center aimed at your ears and at the front of the cabinet shelf....you able to stick that under the current tv stand or are building a riser, or?

 

[John Clement]

Most definitely will be better. I agree that the 440 will be a better choice.
Also, the sb2k will be horribly outmatched by the room. It’s just too small. If it’s new, email ed Mullen and ask about exchanging it and possibly a better recommendation.

Thanks . My problem is placement of sub. There is a spot the sub will fit only it’s too small.
Would two of these be better or one big 16 behind chair by coaches ?


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[John Clement]

Hard to know from the pic...but keep that center aimed at your ears and at the front of the cabinet shelf....you able to stick that under the current tv stand or are building a riser, or?

Actually putting a fully adjustable mount on tv to position above center channel .
My next biggest problem is sub. I have a sb2000 on way only because it will fit in openings.
Suggestion was a pb16 but not sure where I can put one that big . Damn this is frustrating!


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[John Clement]

I have attached a couple of better pics . Don’t mind Gucci the Frenchie or

mess, having kitchen redone and stuff is stacked everywhere . I have plenty of room behind my recliner or in corner for larger sub , Does sub placement have a large impact ?


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[William Lemmerhirt]

Well to your last question, yes subwoofer placement makes a difference. It’s actually the biggest influence on its performance.
My personal opinion is that for a room like that, get the single best sub that you can afford, and immediately budget for a second one. Obviously there’s a lot of gray area here. In that case, a pb16 in the corner is where I would go. That is however, my personal opinion and there are definitely advocates of near field placement which can have advantages but a lot of rooms don’t allow for it. Ideally you would have your LP away from the wall for better/smoother bass response overall, and this would also allow room behind the couch to place a pair of sb2k’s. Depending on what your performance goals are vs waf vs aesthetics etc, that might be the way to go.
Personally, if it were my space and had the budget, I’d go for the 16. To me it’s performance will be better than pair of sb2k. It has dsp, better extension, output and a sweet app to help integrate it. Other options would be 1 or 2 Rythmik fv15hp’s or HSU mk2’s.
http://rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/subwoofers.html

 

[John Clement]

Well to your last question, yes subwoofer placement makes a difference. It’s actually the biggest influence on its performance.
My personal opinion is that for a room like that, get the single best sub that you can afford, and immediately budget for a second one. Obviously there’s a lot of gray area here. In that case, a pb16 in the corner is where I would go. That is however, my personal opinion and there are definitely advocates of near field placement which can have advantages but a lot of rooms don’t allow for it. Ideally you would have your LP away from the wall for better/smoother bass response overall, and this would also allow room behind the couch to place a pair of sb2k’s. Depending on what your performance goals are vs waf vs aesthetics etc, that might be the way to go.
Personally, if it were my space and had the budget, I’d go for the 16. To me it’s performance will be better than pair of sb2k. It has dsp, better extension, output and a sweet app to help integrate it. Other options would be 1 or 2 Rythmik fv15hp’s or HSU mk2’s.
http://rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/subwoofers.html

Thx you!
I have one option to place that monster and that’s to place it next to chair instead of side table by fireplace..


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[John Clement]

I sent SVS a email and trying to decide on one of the 16’s or the 4000 series.. thanks for all you guys help..


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[John Clement]

Also ended up getting a Marantz 7011 reciever. Couldn’t pass up 1000 delivered .. I think it will suffice for now , more so than the onkyo.. I hope anyways .


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