Help with Bookshelf Speakers

[canelli]

First I just want to say howdy since it's my first post. I have already gained a wealth of knowledge so I feel it's time to start asking some questions.

I am looking to buy some speakers to augment the new Samsung LCD I just bought. The fact is that the speakers on the TV are soo bad that neither my wife nor I can stand watching it right now.

The speakers are going into our den which is 20'x20' with 10' ceilings. Our house was build based upon open concepts. The den is open to the kitchen on one side and a hall leading to the dinning and front entry on another.

Our max budget is around $2,300.

Since the den is already fully furnished, bookshelf speakers on stands will be the preferred option with a small sub hidden away.

I have been considering the following:
Receiver: Integra 7.9 (+power for expansion, +video processing for our DVD carousel which doesn't have hdmi)
Bookshelf Speakers: BG Z-1
Sub: DT SuperCube III (+very compact)

I really like the MartinLogan Preface speakers (they sounded pretty clear), but they don't have the utility of being able to fit in smaller spaces.

I listened to some B&W floor speakers and the demo was horrible. They were like ice picks. Maybe they were setup wrong?

For me, the DT 7006 and smaller 1000 just had too much "character". (Hope I am using that correctly.)

A little voice in my head keeps telling me that I can do much better for the money. So, I would like some suggestions on how to optimize this setup. I plan on trying to buy a setup this weekend.

Right now, I would like a nice 2 speaker system that possibly could grow to 7.1. Before I can poke holes or run speaker wire, I need to convince my wife with proof. My wife and I seem to prefer clean / musical speakers.

 

[lsiberian]

First I just want to say howdy since it's my first post. I have already gained a wealth of knowledge so I feel it's time to start asking some questions.

I am looking to buy some speakers to augment the new Samsung LCD I just bought. The fact is that the speakers on the TV are soo bad that neither my wife nor I can stand watching it right now.

The speakers are going into our den which is 20'x20' with 10' ceilings. Our house was build based upon open concepts. The den is open to the kitchen on one side and a hall leading to the dinning and front entry on another.

Our max budget is around $2,300.

Since the den is already fully furnished, bookshelf speakers on stands will be the preferred option with a small sub hidden away.

I have been considering the following:
Receiver: Integra 7.9 (+power for expansion, +video processing for our DVD carousel which doesn't have hdmi)
Bookshelf Speakers: BG Z-1
Sub: DT SuperCube III (+very compact)

I really like the MartinLogan Preface speakers (they sounded pretty clear), but they don't have the utility of being able to fit in smaller spaces.

I listened to some B&W floor speakers and the demo was horrible. They were like ice picks. Maybe they were setup wrong?

For me, the DT 7006 and smaller 1000 just had too much "character". (Hope I am using that correctly.)

A little voice in my head keeps telling me that I can do much better for the money. So, I would like some suggestions on how to optimize this setup. I plan on trying to buy a setup this weekend.

Right now, I would like a nice 2 speaker system that possibly could grow to 7.1. Before I can poke holes or run speaker wire, I need to convince my wife with proof. My wife and I seem to prefer clean / musical speakers.

For the Sub get a JL Audio F110 It's a small sub with big sub power.
http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?prod_id=374

They make the best small sub drivers in the world. And their subs have unbeatable build quality. You won't find any small sub better than that in my opinion. For your 2 front speakers. You have a lot of very good choices. Most Internet Direct companies offer free in home auditions try as many as you can.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1250231641&/Jl-audio-f-110-black-gloss-wit Great deal on a used one.

 

[jostenmeat]

Howdy!

I like ribbons too. For your bad BW experience, all I can is that the room is everything. Ok, that includes where the speakers you go, and where YOU go in it as well. I've heard BWs that sounded really fantastic, and then an even better model in such a terrible room, that I thought the tweeters were blown. I even asked the dealer.

As for your room, it's probably a good thing it is open, since square dimensions are the worst for acoustics. While your ceiling isn't 20 ft high, I suppose being exactly 10ft high is not the most fortunate dimension either, but whatever.

I see lsiberian just beat me to it, but I would also consider JL when size/performance ratio is the #1 factor. They seem to be selling often for about 1.2-1.4k at audiogon, whether as brand new or used.

Do the speakers HAVE to go into some cubby hole? If not, you could try some towers w/o sub to begin with as well, though you won't really get LFE (if you choose to, it will be minimal). I like ML, and their ribbons are indeed made by BG. Another brand I think of with ribbons is Salk, but the premium with adding the ribbons is pretty high, IIRC.

 

[lsiberian]

Howdy!

I like ribbons too. For your bad BW experience, all I can is that the room is everything. Ok, that includes where the speakers you go, and where YOU go in it as well. I've heard BWs that sounded really fantastic, and then an even better model in such a terrible room, that I thought the tweeters were blown. I even asked the dealer.

As for your room, it's probably a good thing it is open, since square dimensions are the worst for acoustics. While your ceiling isn't 20 ft high, I suppose being exactly 10ft high is not the most fortunate dimension either, but whatever.

I see lsiberian just beat me to it, but I would also consider JL when size/performance ratio is the #1 factor. They seem to be selling often for about 1.2-1.4k at audiogon, whether as brand new or used.

Do the speakers HAVE to go into some cubby hole? If not, you could try some towers w/o sub to begin with as well, though you won't really get LFE (if you choose to, it will be minimal). I like ML, and their ribbons are indeed made by BG. Another brand I think of with ribbons is Salk, but the premium with adding the ribbons is pretty high, IIRC.

I don't suggest cubbying the speakers. If you gave us a picture of your front setup we might suggest something that fits well aesthetically and sounds nice.

Do trial some KEF speakers.

 

[MidnightSensi]

First I just want to say howdy since it's my first post. I have already gained a wealth of knowledge so I feel it's time to start asking some questions.

I am looking to buy some speakers to augment the new Samsung LCD I just bought. The fact is that the speakers on the TV are soo bad that neither my wife nor I can stand watching it right now.

The speakers are going into our den which is 20'x20' with 10' ceilings. Our house was build based upon open concepts. The den is open to the kitchen on one side and a hall leading to the dinning and front entry on another.

Our max budget is around $2,300.

Since the den is already fully furnished, bookshelf speakers on stands will be the preferred option with a small sub hidden away.

I have been considering the following:
Receiver: Integra 7.9 (+power for expansion, +video processing for our DVD carousel which doesn't have hdmi)
Bookshelf Speakers: BG Z-1
Sub: DT SuperCube III (+very compact)

I really like the MartinLogan Preface speakers (they sounded pretty clear), but they don't have the utility of being able to fit in smaller spaces.

I listened to some B&W floor speakers and the demo was horrible. They were like ice picks. Maybe they were setup wrong?

For me, the DT 7006 and smaller 1000 just had too much "character". (Hope I am using that correctly.)

A little voice in my head keeps telling me that I can do much better for the money. So, I would like some suggestions on how to optimize this setup. I plan on trying to buy a setup this weekend.

Right now, I would like a nice 2 speaker system that possibly could grow to 7.1. Before I can poke holes or run speaker wire, I need to convince my wife with proof. My wife and I seem to prefer clean / musical speakers.

Try the Dynaudio Excite line. I think it might be what your looking for. They are easy enough to drive that a home theater receiver can run them (whereas the others of the Dynaudio line prefer a standalone amplifier, because they are 4-ohm, the Excites are 6).

The X12 bookshelves and the SUB300 should be well attainable within your budget. Negotiate!!!! Business is bad, good time to buy stuff now. There is huge markup in speakers, so, be a ball buster.

Here is a review of the X home theater system with a SUB300. A pair with the 300 will be great for a stereo system, and the finishes will make the wife happy.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/1008dyn/index.html

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/dynaudio_excite_speaker_system/index.html

 

[AVRat]

For the sub, I would definitely skip the SCIII! Something like the Epik Vanquish or SVS SB12-Plus will perform better at a slightly larger size.

 

[canelli]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I ended up getting the B&W after all. The second time I listened to them was a much better experience. Plus, they have sounded great in my house.

How long does it take to break speakers in?

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I ended up getting the B&W after all. The second time I listened to them was a much better experience. Plus, they have sounded great in my house.

How long does it take to break speakers in?

Break in is the time it takes for you ears to compensate for the speaker defects. It's different for different people.

 

[adwilk]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I ended up getting the B&W after all. The second time I listened to them was a much better experience. Plus, they have sounded great in my house.

How long does it take to break speakers in?

isiberian is right with the break in. What EXACTLY did you get? Model #? What receiver? Sub? Interconnects? Speaker wire? J/K of course but more details would be nice.. Pics?

 

[ozmedia]

break in time

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I ended up getting the B&W after all. The second time I listened to them was a much better experience. Plus, they have sounded great in my house.

How long does it take to break speakers in?

While some people dismiss break-in time, I've sold RBH Signature bookshelves to people without a real ear for sound who definitely notice a change in the upper midrange and imaging after about two days of solid playback.

They recommend about 15-20 hrs, which is what I find helps get rid of sweet spots and smooths out the whole experience. Break-in allows time for compounds and surrounds to loosen up and move with less effort, it is completely up to your ear as to WHEN they are broken in but you should hear a noticable difference after about a solid day or two of listening.

All this facing them toward each other at low volumes etc. that you hear about, sounds a bit nutty to me, but there is no question that a new pair of speakers sounds better and more seamless after a good few days of playing at various volumes.

 

[bigvag]

which b&w did you go with?

 

[griffinconst]

While some people dismiss break-in time, I've sold RBH Signature bookshelves to people without a real ear for sound who definitely notice a change in the upper midrange and imaging after about two days of solid playback.

They recommend about 15-20 hrs, which is what I find helps get rid of sweet spots and smooths out the whole experience. Break-in allows time for compounds and surrounds to loosen up and move with less effort, it is completely up to your ear as to WHEN they are broken in but you should hear a noticable difference after about a solid day or two of listening.

All this facing them toward each other at low volumes etc. that you hear about, sounds a bit nutty to me, but there is no question that a new pair of speakers sounds better and more seamless after a good few days of playing at various volumes.

I believe the idea of facing them toward each other is to force sound cancellation. You can then run lots of signal through them without having to hear them play loud while breaking them in.
Not sure I believe in break-in though.

 

[ozmedia]

I believe the idea of facing them toward each other is to force sound cancellation. You can then run lots of signal through them without having to hear them play loud while breaking them in.
Not sure I believe in break-in though.

Sound cancellation, I don't buy into. If you are putting power through speakers, you can glue them together and you'll still have to listen to it.
I am normally not a huge advocate of break-in, it really is dependant on speaker type. Currently I work with a Canadian RBH distributor and I can tell you first hand, they DO sound much better (especially signature and reference models) after a break-in period, as also noted in a few of the RBH reviews here. That isn't to say they will sound crappy until broken in, but the upper end really smooths out and the bottom end drops a few moe dB after a few days of even low volume play.

It seeme it's just a matter of moving the coils and surrounds for a while until they operate at their peak.

 

[just listening]

Isiberian is correct, plenty of Internet-direct companies offer 30 day returns. Most can be extended an extra few weeks with a friendly call.

Count me as a believer in break-in. But I refuse to be a part of a thread hi-jack by going into specifics.

Enjoy the journey