Help w Revel Studio 2 speaker match w/ amplifier

[Rudy Wong]

Hello all-I'm new to this forum but looking for help! I just purchased the Revel Studio 2 speakers and Voice 2 center. A major investment to be sure but I was able to get an excellent value.

What thoughts do any of you have for 3 channel or Mono Block amplification? I'm torn on whether units like Levinson no 533 or McIntosh or Bryston, etc are worth all that $ vs. ATI has a signature 6003 at 300 X 3 for $6K and Emotiva has their XPA-1 which is 600 watts with the first 60 watts as Class A and the rest Class A/b. Emotiva costs $3,300 for 3. I have their stuff already and really like it although I have found it lacked refinement with B & W CM10 speakers but perhaps is a better match with Revel?

I'd like to strike the best balance between quality and price. I tend not to obsess over the last 5% but I would obsess over the last 15% or so!

Thoughts and ideas are much appreciated!

 

[Irvrobinson]

I recommend staying away from the Levinson (which is an over-priced ATI variant), the McIntosh (silly output transformers), or the Bryston (expensive for the quality and the watts in trade for a long warranty). The ATI 6000 series also seems over-priced for what you get. Of the companies on your list, I'd recommend ordering an ATI AT2003 or AT3003 online (classicaudioparts, for example), depending on your room size. I got the AT3000 just because I could. Do I really need 500 watts or so into 4 ohms, probably not.

If you really want overkill-engineering in an amp, Krell is my current favorite. Expect lots of jeers from folks on the forum if you admit to buying something in that class.

I'm not a big Emotiva fan based on some parts choices I've seen them make, but Gene likes their amps a lot.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't think expensive amps are worth it.

I think the Emotiva XPA-3 is good enough for $800.

Or the Outlaw 7500 amp for $1600.

If you don't have subwoofers, you can save money to get 2 - 4 subs to go along with the Revel speakers.

 

[RichB]

The best value is Emotiva for sure and the price is what you see.

A Parasound A31 street price is in the Mid-2's and it is a very nice amp.

I would go ATI over Outlaw and I'll bet you can visit classicaudioparts.com and then CALL and see if you can find a competitive price.

Dealer amps can usually be found at 20% off or higher but you have to call around...

- Rich

 

[Rudy Wong]

Your guys help has been very valuable! ATI is very interesting to me and like I said I already have am XPR-5, XPA-5 and XPA-3, a fusion 8100 and 2 X Fusion Flex. I also had a Stealth-250 but returned it so I'm super familiar with Emotiva and really like them but sometimes the detail is not quite what I would like-especially for speakers such an investment as Studio 2's. So two questions for all out there: 1- does anyone have thoughts on ATI v. Emotiva? ATI is about 3 or 4 x the price at least but still considered a good value. Is it way better than Emotiva or similar or 15% better?
2) does anyone have experience with ATI 3000 series v 6000 series? It looks like a 5 channel amp in the 3000 series is $719 per channel and the 6000 series is $1279/ channel. Thoughts on the 3000 vs 6000?
Thanks!!!!

 

[Seth=L]

I like a few others, I am not on board with the Emotiva craze. I'm no expert, but I get this overwhelming feeling of cheapness looking at them. They aren't near as stately as your Revel speakers.

I can't speak on their choice of parts either, but their execution seems a little dated. Using huge parts and making some of the heaviest amplifiers available for their given performance doesn't really indicate quite the same level of engineering you see in something like Parasound. Weight is not a definitive indication of quality, power, or even reliability. I saw the Parasound Halo series mentioned above and that gets my vote even though it wasn't part of your original choices.

The Revel Studio 2 isn't terribly difficult to drive either, just a little under 4 ohms minimum load isn't much of a task combined with a relatively average efficiency rating of 88dB 1w/1m. Any of the aforementioned amplifiers are going to deliver plenty of headroom without any lag, including Emotiva. If it where money I'd invest in something that I think will last a lifetime and wouldn't always think to myself I'd wish I had spent a little more and got what I really wanted.

 

[slipperybidness]

Emo is good for the price. But, I think ATI is good without consideration to price.

I haven't personally heard an ATI. I used to not really be a fan of ATI due to aesthetics. But, once I started looking at pics under the hood of ATI, my attitude changed!

From what I can see on ATI internals, it looks great, well built, and quality parts.

If I ever buy another amp again, it will most likely be ATI. I don't think there are many other brands out there on my short list, unless I find a deal too good to pass up.

 

[Rudy Wong]

All of your input is really helpful. To be clear-I don't love Emotiva for critical listening. They are awesome to get huge power from surround channels and great as zone amps but for a L/R/C I just don't think they are going to cut it. I saw Parasound mentioned above and that would certainly be a consideration for me. I guess it would be down to if Parasound Halo is better than ATI and if ATI 6000 series is worth the extra cash. I might be leaning that way since I made the investment already in my speakers. Any more input is appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[Seth=L]

All of your input is really helpful. To be clear-I don't love Emotiva for critical listening. They are awesome to get huge power from surround channels and great as zone amps but for a L/R/C I just don't think they are going to cut it. I saw Parasound mentioned above and that would certainly be a consideration for me. I guess it would be down to if Parasound Halo is better than ATI and if ATI 6000 series is worth the extra cash. I might be leaning that way since I made the investment already in my speakers. Any more input is appreciated. Thanks!!

The Halos will look nicer with your beautiful speakers.*

*I know that doesn't mean anything

 

[RichB]

I had transformer hum with the ATI3005 but it sounded great. Were I to go ATI, I would try to get a deal on an ATI6003.

Of course, Halo's were my choice for looks and performance. Including high class-a bias, if your into that sort of thing.

Here is what Halo's look like with my Salons

 

[PENG]

I find the sound quality of the Parasound Halo A21 comparable to that of the Bryston 4BSST. The SST2 may be marginally better but my guess is that it is not. The Bryston amp section seems slightly quieter but the transformers seems slightly louder.

I don't think it is 100% true that Bryston jacks the price up because of the 13 to 15 years longer warranty. It may be 50% true, I don't think we know for sure. I believe part of the longer warranty could be due to their confidence in their overall design, components choice, workmanship and overall build quality as well as a more vigorous quality control system. The last two factors may or may not result in theoretically better sound quality but to say they trade quality and watt for the long warranty is probably only true to a point.

The C$ has dropped 20% in recent months, that makes Bryston amps more affordable if you are in the US. I think either the Bryston or the Halo amps are great choices for the OP's speakers.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I don't think it is 100% true that Bryston jacks the price up because of the 13 to 15 years longer warranty. It may be 50% true, I don't think we know for sure. I believe part of the longer warranty could be due to their confidence in their overall design, components choice, workmanship and overall build quality as well as a more vigorous quality control system. The last two factors may or may not result in theoretically better sound quality but to say they trade quality and watt for the long warranty is probably only true to a point.

The C$ has dropped 20% in recent months, that makes Bryston amps more affordable if you are in the US. I think either the Bryston or the Halo amps are great choices for the OP's speakers.

I agree that it's probably not 100% true, but in looking at the recent Bryston amps I've seen I can't figure out why else they cost twice as much per watt, as say the AT2000/3000 series. The chassis and case of the Bryston are a little fancier (you can't get much uglier than the ATI in a commercial product), but not so much that it justifies the price difference. The Brystons aren't like Pass Labs amps, industrial design-wise. It might be true that they use higher temp rated caps with more headroom than other brands, but most other components in amps don't age much. Not that I'm trying to push the ATIs, I bought them mainly because the AT3000 is dead silent at idle through the tweeters (no hiss at all), it sounds as good as my prized and grossly over-engineered Levinson 334s. Let's just say I've never had a reason to want to regret the ATI. Yet.

 

[PENG]

I agree that it's probably not 100% true, but in looking at the recent Bryston amps I've seen I can't figure out why else they cost twice as much per watt, as say the AT2000/3000 series. The chassis and case of the Bryston are a little fancier (you can't get much uglier than the ATI in a commercial product), but not so much that it justifies the price difference. The Brystons aren't like Pass Labs amps, industrial design-wise. It might be true that they use higher temp rated caps with more headroom than other brands, but most other components in amps don't age much. Not that I'm trying to push the ATIs, I bought them mainly because the AT3000 is dead silent at idle through the tweeters (no hiss at all), it sounds as good as my prized and grossly over-engineered Levinson 334s. Let's just say I've never had a reason to want to regret the ATI. Yet.

The way you put it I have to agree. If I were in the US I would likely go with the ATI and learn to accept its look. That has changed somewhat after the CD dropped 20% relative to USD. The look of the Bryston wasn't great either in the beginning but over time I actually prefer it to the A21, a complete 180 degree turnaround on my part. The ATI is fully differential while the Brystons are truely dual mono design and that may explain why I could hear the transformer (ear touches chassis) hum a little louder than the A21. Now I know ADTG told me the ATI transformers are completely silent but I find it hard to believe. I have not heard a silent transformers, they all make noise, that's just physics. As for speakers hiss, my 4BSST is definitely quieter than the A21, though both are close to being silent. If the ATIs are deal silent, that's great and I wish they have dealers in Canada so I can find out for myself. I have the feeling that I am super sensitive to hum and hiss.

 

[walter duque]

I don't think it is 100% true that Bryston jacks the price up because of the 13 to 15 years longer warranty. It may be 50% true, I don't think we know for sure.

Any good amp should last at least 20 years. My Cinepro amps are getting close to that and still sound great and never had an issue with them (and they have been abused). I know my old Belles is still kicking around and that's 30+ years old. IMO (most of the time) you get what you pay for.

 

[slipperybidness]

I have not heard a silent transformers, they all make noise, that's just physics.

Yup, all transformers hum (guess they don't know the words ).

It's just a matter of how loud. As long as I can't hear it at listening position, I don't really care. But, most of mine are pretty dang quiet even with my ear on the chassis.

However, one of the key features of the Halo line is that the transformers are sealed in epoxy! So, a Halo should have much, much less noticeable hum, if at all. If you are concerned with transformer hum, then Halo would be an easy choice.

 

[PENG]

Yup, all transformers hum (guess they don't know the words ).

It's just a matter of how loud. As long as I can't hear it at listening position, I don't really care. But, most of mine are pretty dang quiet even with my ear on the chassis.

However, one of the key features of the Halo line is that the transformers are sealed in epoxy! So, a Halo should have much, much less noticeable hum, if at all. If you are concerned with transformer hum, then Halo would be an easy choice.

I fully agree with you and then noise when my ears are touching or within a couple inches never bothered me. I am just amazed by people who claimed their were silent, and when pressed they insisted they did not exaggerate. You are I both know their are no such things as silent transformers, just how loud or how quiet. My Denon 3805 sitting side by side with the A21 and it is quieter, marginally but audibly than the A21 yet it is not epoxy encased, but then it is also half the size.

I think hum and hiss is one those overrated talks. Again I agree it is a matter of how loud, or how quiet, and if you cannot hear it from the closest listening position you would ever sit, then all is good. We should spend more time enjoying the music instead of itching about things we could not feel.

 

[slipperybidness]

Yeah, I agree. Tweeter hiss does bother me. I really like to be able to max out my gains with no signal and hear absolutely no hiss. But, if I can't obtain that, then I'm OK as long as I can reasonably attenuate out the hiss with gains at normal listening levels.

Back to transformer hum. To be more exact, I should say "all transformers hum, or will hum eventually". Sometimes it gets worse with age, it is a mechanical hum after all.

 

[its phillip]

Rich, I love the cat clock

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yeah, I agree. Tweeter hiss does bother me. I really like to be able to max out my gains with no signal and hear absolutely no hiss. But, if I can't obtain that, then I'm OK as long as I can reasonably attenuate out the hiss with gains at normal listening levels.

I agree in principle, but audible hiss drives me nuts enough for it to be the basis of a buying decision.

 

[RichB]

The ATI3005 had audible hum from my seating position and that was not acceptable.
Wood floors, an open shelf, and proximity to a plaster wall may have made for an unforgiving environment. ATI said it the amp was acceptable in their rugged listening room.

The 6000 series extremely low noise floor. Perhaps, more was done to silence the transformer as well.

- Rich